Could mold be silently wreaking havoc on your heart? 🫀 Join us for an eye-opening discussion with Dr. Jack Wolfson as we explore the surprising connection between environmental toxins and cardiovascular health.
✋ Your heart deserves more than just symptom management. Discover the root causes and holistic solutions that can truly transform your cardiovascular well-being. Visit his sites below.
Founder of https://naturalheartdoctor.com/ and https://cardiologycoffee.com/
-Author of The Paleo Cardiologist, The Natural Way to Heart Health: https://supplements.thedrswolfson.com/order-form-paleo-cardiologist/
Key Points
✅ Toxic environmental insults can be just as big of a problem for cardiovascular health and elevated cholesterol
✅ Why statin drugs may not be the answer to preventing a heart attack or stroke and what the alternatives are for you to consider
✅ The very best lab tests to assess your real risk or cardiovascular disease and heart attack
Our Guest – 👨⚕️ Dr. Jack Wolfson
Dr. Jack Wolfson is a board-certified cardiologist, best-selling author, husband and father and the nation’s #1 natural heart doctor. For more than 2 decades, more than one million people have enjoyed the warmth, compassion and transformational power of his natural heart health courses and events.
Dr. Wolfson is founder of Natural Heart Doctor, his heart health practice and online informational website, TheDrsWolfson.com, an online resource center with natural health information, and Cardiology Coffee, his great tasting, all organic, heart-healthy coffee. He has been named as one of America’s Top Functional Medicine Doctors and is a 5 time winner of the Natural Choice Awards as a holistic M.D. Dr. Wolfson’s work has been covered by more than 100 media outlets, including NBC, CNN and the Washington Post. He is a natural cardiologist called upon by doctors and people travel from across the globe for his natural heart health treatment and advice.
Dr. Wolfson and his wife Heather have four children and are committed to making the world a better place to live. Through their philanthropic efforts, they provide for those in need (including animal rights) and causes supporting natural health.
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Dr. Jill Carnahan is Your Functional Medicine Expert® dually board certified in Family Medicine for ten years and in Integrative Holistic Medicine since 2015. She is the Medical Director of Flatiron Functional Medicine, a widely sought-after practice with a broad range of clinical services including functional medical protocols, nutritional consultations, chiropractic therapy, naturopathic medicine, acupuncture, and massage therapy.
As a survivor of breast cancer, Crohn’s disease, and toxic mold illness she brings a unique perspective to treating patients in the midst of complex and chronic illness. Her clinic specializes in searching for the underlying triggers that contribute to illness through cutting-edge lab testing and tailoring the intervention to specific needs.
A popular inspirational speaker and prolific writer, she shares her knowledge of hope, health, and healing live on stage and through newsletters, articles, books, and social media posts! People relate to Dr. Jill’s science-backed opinions delivered with authenticity, love and humor. She is known for inspiring her audience to thrive even in the midst of difficulties.
Featured in Shape Magazine, Parade, Forbes, MindBodyGreen, First for Women, Townsend Newsletter, and The Huffington Post as well as seen on NBC News and Health segments with Joan Lunden, Dr. Jill is a media must-have. Her YouTube channel and podcast features live interviews with the healthcare world’s most respected names.
The Podcast
The Video
The Transcript
229: Resiliency Radio with Dr. Jill: Could Mold be Causing Your Heart Symptoms? w/ Dr. Jack Wolfson
Dr. Jill 00:00
Hey everybody, welcome to Resiliency Radio, your go-to podcast for the most cutting-edge insights in integrative and functional medicine. I'm your host, Dr. Jill, and with each episode, we dive into the heart of healing and the heart of medical transformation.
Dr. Jill 00:16
We have guests from such a wide range of topics and today is no different. I'm so excited to introduce my friend and colleague, Dr. Jack Wolfson. He's a board-certified cardiologist, best-selling author, husband, and father, and the nation's #1 natural heart doctor. For more than two decades, more than one million people have enjoyed the warmth, compassion, and transformational power of his natural heart health courses and events.
Dr. Jill 00:40
Dr. Wolfson is founder of Natural Heart Doctor, his heart health practice and online informational website, TheDrsWolfson.com, an online resource center with natural health information, and Cardiology Coffee, his great-tasting—I didn't know you did coffee too; this is amazing!—all organic, heart-healthy coffee. He has been named one of America's top functional medicine doctors and is a five-time winner of the Natural Choice Awards as a holistic MD. Dr. Wolfson's work has been covered by more than 100 media outlets, including NBC, CNN, the Washington Post, and others. He is a natural cardiologist called upon by doctors and people travel across the globe to see him.
Welcome, Dr. Wolfson!
Dr. Wolfson 01:23
Thank you so much, Dr. Jill! It's a pleasure to be on. And yes, I became a coffee guru along the way. And it's interesting because, as you know from going through medical training and working in hospitals and stuff like that, we tell people, “Stop drinking coffee,” while we go back into the doctor's lounge and have some sludge in a styrofoam cup. But we shouldn't be telling people that. Coffee can be very beneficial for a lot of people, especially when they drink the good stuff. But we can talk about that. But again, it's great to be on with you.
Dr. Jill 01:55
Thank you. I couldn't agree more. When I teach about the microbiome, we know that it increases polyphenols to the short-chain fatty acid production of butyrate, which is so important for cardiovascular disease. So I'm a huge fan of coffee. And when I teach about that particular study, I always say, “Here are my two favorite food groups: Dark chocolate and coffee.” I love talking about that.
What I always love to start with with my guests is getting to know your journey into medicine. How did you get into medicine? And what was the journey into the natural heart doctor?
Dr. Wolfson 02:28
Yes. And on that tangent, I also do love chocolate, so we can talk about chocolate as well. But listen, I like to say that I was born into the medical world. My father was a cardiologist. In 1970, when I was born, even before that in my mother's womb, I'm listening to the conversations about cardiovascular disease—not cardiovascular health, of course, but disease. So ever since I was a little kid, I wanted to be just like my father as a cardiologist. I would follow exactly in my father's footsteps to become a cardiologist. After 10 years of training, I move out to Arizona and join the biggest cardiovascular group in the state of Arizona as a hospital-based cardiologist. And my professional career was exploding to the positive. Everything was amazing!
Dr. Wolfson 03:12
Unfortunately, my father was sick and dying of a rare Parkinson's-like illness called progressive supranuclear palsy. He gets the official diagnosis at the Mayo Clinic. The Mayo Clinic doesn't have any reason why my father is sick and dying. They don't have any treatment for him, and they say he'll be dead within three years on average. Well, simultaneously, serendipitously, divine intervention had me meet this young woman, who's a 29-year-old chiropractor, and she tells me exactly why my father is sick and dying. For all the reasons, of course, you know Dr. Jill. Essentially, what I would say are violations of eating well, living well, and thinking well. So all those things combined, which was an epiphany moment for me, who was brainwashed in the pharma model. And then to wake up and say, “Oh, wow, this is absolutely incredible!” So I listened to what she had to say.
Dr. Wolfson 04:09
I'd like to say two reasons: Number one, it made perfect sense. There's sickness all around me. Everyone's sick. No one's getting better. Misery in the hospitals and in the offices. And then number two: This woman is smoking hot, and I totally listened. She would soon become my wife. And we now have, as you mentioned, four children and goats and chickens and live in the mountains of Colorado.
Dr. Wolfson 04:35
My father would die a torturous death. It is a cruel diagnosis—PSP. Whenever I talk about it, people comment and are like, “Wow, I know somebody with that.” It's getting more common than it used to be. That's for sure. But my father's loss will not be in vain. That's what I'm here to do—to make a difference.
Dr. Jill 04:51
Wow, what a story! I find that almost everybody who's making an impact in integrative and functional medicine has either a personal journey or someone they loved where conventional medicine failed. And you and I both know that there is a place for conventional treatment. If you have a heart attack, a stroke, or a car accident, you probably want to be in a major medical center. But again, what we've done over our years is go to that root cause.
Dr. Jill 05:14
Today, one thing I really want to talk about… And the topic of our talk is how mold could be affecting your heart. People who know me know I love to talk about environmental toxicity and mold-related illness. But what they may not know is how this toxin could cause heart disease. Do you want to start down that pathway and start to explain to us some of the pathways or mechanisms that could happen?
Dr. Wolfson 05:38
Yeah, most certainly. And it's so unfortunate that people don't understand this. And the medical community—of course, as you know, you never learned this in medical school. I certainly never learned it. Maybe there was something about mold allergy, but what we're talking about is something that's totally different.
Dr. Wolfson 05:55
I think back to my father—about the house that he must have grown up in on the East Coast, in Atlantic City, New Jersey. Even in our home as a child… It was a very nice home. I mean, I'm the son of a cardiologist. We had plenty of money. But money doesn't help flooding of a home and damage to carpets in the home. And we're living in Chicagoland at the time. So just wood—shoddy construction, no matter what it is.
Dr. Wolfson 06:24
That being said, the water damage that happens onto these organic materials—wood, drywall, and others; any kind of dirt and stuff like that, carpeting and all those things—even mold can grow on. It grows on that, but it's also bacteria. So we want to talk about mold and bacteria, although we probably have more data on the manifestations of mold from water damage. So what that does is, of course, we breathe it in. Of course, it comes in through our skin. But one of the primary mechanisms would be through the gastrointestinal tract. And what that'll do is that'll destroy the gut microbiome. All these mycotoxins are like little antibiotics.
Dr. Wolfson 07:07
Of course, the most famous mold mycotoxin is penicillin. That is a mold mycotoxin that comes from the Penicillium species. It kills bacteria. Fleming discovered that in his lab over 100 years ago. So if you're swallowing all those down, what does that do to your gut microbiome? What about mycophenolic acid, also from Penicillium species? Pharma puts that into a capsule and they sell that as the immunosuppressant CellCept. So this is not conjecture. This is not like, “Oh, you're just a natural doctor now” and like, “Oh, all of a sudden mold is the problem.”
Dr. Wolfson 07:39
Mold is biblical. Moses talked about it in the Old Testament 3,500 years ago. Either get out of the mold if you have it or tear your house down and move the remnants like a mile away from what he's talking about in the Hebrew Bible back then. So I think that is the primary thing. And of course, I know that's your area of expertise as well—that gut microbiome.
Dr. Wolfson 08:00
And then once you disrupt the gut microbiome, now you open the floodgates to intestinal hyperpermeability, commonly known as leaky gut. Things get in the body that don't belong—as you discuss so eloquently about lipopolysaccharides—but also undigested food particles, large proteins. Things get into the body that don't belong. And now the body's immune system kicks in—inflammation, oxidative stress, which all medical doctors know is bad. They don't know what to do about it except for steroids and, in the cardiovascular world, statin drugs.
Dr. Wolfson 08:33
So now you have inflammation, oxidative stress, and this immune system activation. You also have this leaky gut that we said, but then you have leaky blood vessels. So the endothelium or the lining of the blood vessels leaks. And then now you start getting immune activity through the lining of the blood vessels—that endothelium into the intima-media, more inflammation. And then now you start getting cellular apoptosis—calcification of the vessels. The vessels become weak; they rupture. Heart attack—dead.
And, Jill, you speak all over the world too, and it's like: How many cardiologists know the mechanism of what we just said? And it's unfortunate. And it's the people who are living in this situation. It's just so catastrophic.
Dr. Jill 09:19
Yeah, that's what I realized. Of course, I went through my own mold journey. And it was through that that I was like: “Whoa! We are not taught about the innate immune system's effect, the cytokines, and this inflammatory effect.” And basically, you so well just laid out that—leaky brain, leaky gut, leaky endothelium, leaky mitochondria—all of our membranes are damaged, not only from the molds and mycotoxins themselves but from the mast cells that are activated. Not only are the molds and mycotoxins directly affecting the permeability of the membranes, but they're also activating mast cells, which can create a whole other slew of issues.
Dr. Jill 09:56
What I'd love to talk about is that there's still a lot of disinformation around cholesterol. Cholesterol, in and of itself, I think of as an innocent bystander—spackling on the walls of the damaged endothelium. But will you tell us the story for those listening who may have been told by their primary doctor or their cardiologists that just the cholesterol is the issue? Maybe give us some clarity because I know this is your thing. And I want people to understand why it's not just cholesterol.
Dr. Wolfson 10:24
Yeah, that's a big, big, big question. When we think about cholesterol, what comes to the mind of the listener right now? It's likely going to be cheesy plaque, heart attack, clogging up blood vessels, some kind of fat molecule. But we really should be celebrating cholesterol. As you said, all animals make cholesterol. Why does the chicken's egg have cholesterol? Because that's how a chicken comes to life. Why do mother's milk and all mammalian milk have cholesterol in there? Because that's the nutrient that the body needs to get the job done.
Dr. Wolfson 11:08
In the 1950s, there were researchers who looked under a microscope at coronary artery disease, which was a new thing over the last hundred years. It did not exist in the medical literature before the 1920s. But as they looked under a microscope, they found evidence of cholesterol deposits that were there. So now it became this total rush to figure out why cholesterol is there. And then, of course, pharmaceutical companies want to know, “Well, if it's a problem, how do we lower it down?” And then dietary guidelines to lower it down. And of course, the dietary guidelines—to further their conspiracy conversation—are written by the companies that sell us processed foods, which are obviously the problem, to lower our numbers down to bind up the cholesterol in the gut. So we poop it out the other side to inhibit what's called the enterohepathic circulation.
Dr. Wolfson 12:03
Cholesterol, as you mentioned, is so important. All of our cell membranes, and as you said, the organelles, are all loaded with cholesterol. The cholesterol is part of that cell fence that keeps things in the cell that belong [and] outside the cell that don't belong. Cholesterol is turned into vitamin D when it's hit by the sun. Cholesterol is important for all of our sex hormones. It's the base molecule of how they're all formed. And cholesterol is critical for our digestion. The liver makes it, puts it in the gallbladder, and squeezes it on top of our food for the emulsification of fats. It's so important, as we said, that the body wants to retain it. It wants to hold on to it.
Dr. Wolfson 12:40
Further down in the small intestine, we have the process to reabsorb this life-giving molecule. So celebrate cholesterol. Whenever somebody vilifies it or is like, “Oh, we've got to lower your numbers down,” twofold: Run from that doctor. And then also, if there is a problem with your lipids, if you will, the most important ratio we've known since the early 2000s—Dr. Salim Yusuf, Duke University—is the ApoB/ApoA ratio. And that ratio is the most important number that you want to know. Total cholesterol, I think, is a pretty worthless measurement. And we've known that since the MRFIT Trials in the 1970s.
Dr. Jill 13:19
As you say that, again, we know the data. And the 70s—that's decades and decades. And still, many of our colleagues are telling a story that is just not based in science anymore.
I know one of your things as a heart-healthy doctor is statin drugs. People are often told they need to be put on those. Let's talk about statins. I'm sure there are a few cases where there may be benefit. But in general, I think your party line is no. Tell us about that.
Dr. Wolfson 13:47
Yeah, you're awesome, Dr. Jill. Yeah, I am definitely an anti-statin guy. I have not written a prescription in over 10 years. I celebrate the vitality of the body and what the body can do. Give it what it needs, take away what it doesn't, and that's the solution. As you mentioned, bless the men and women who work in emergency rooms and trauma centers. They're really doing incredible work. But for someone to have a heart attack, for example, and then they leave the hospital on a whole slew of pharmaceuticals, including statin drugs, I think it's a mistake of cataclysmic proportions. But that's just the way that we're trained, as you know. So we're trained on statins first for everybody, we used to think, right? And some people do statins in the drinking water. There are just so many problems with taking statin drugs. I believe the statin drugs are one of the many things that killed my father.
Dr. Wolfson 14:49
Statin drugs do many things, including inhibiting cholesterol. They inhibit what's called CoQ10, of course, for cellular energy and mitochondrial energy. Also in cytochrome number four, cytochrome c oxidase, is a protein called heme A. And heme A is part of the backbone of this particular enzyme to make energy. That is going to be inhibited by the statin drug.
Dr. Wolfson 15:14
The other thing statin drugs inhibit is something called Dolichol. Dolichol is a steroid-like molecule that is found in the substantia nigra of the midbrain in its heaviest amount. And if we take a statin drug to inhibit dolichol, could we get a movement disorder from that? Substantia nigra: Parkinson's, Parkinson's-like. So the answer is yes. But time will tell on that.
Dr. Wolfson 15:43
For example, if someone is mold-toxic, how do statin drugs come into that equation? In fact, they'll inhibit the body's ability to heal. And then one final thought: Statin drugs are based on the citrinin mold mycotoxin that is known to inhibit HMG-CoA reductase. So that's where the statin drug industry came from—it came from the mold world.
Dr. Jill 16:07
Wow, what a great overview, because I couldn't agree more with everything you just said, especially as we see a rise in environmental toxicity and the three things we see most to relate to your father and relate to most of our patients: Cancer, autoimmunity, and neurodegenerative diseases.
Let's just talk neurodegenerative for a moment, because obviously you have a personal link to that, and I have a lot of patients with that. Our brains are made of cholesterol and fats and healthy fats. And one of the best things that I have done in these types of situations is replace phospholipids, replace fats, [and] even sometimes replace cholesterol because the myelin needs this. So I love that we're talking about this because it's a really big deal. And I think that we could be inducing more harm than good in most of our patients. I think there's a small exception. I think maybe some of that literature is around: Could there be an endothelial benefit?
Dr. Jill 17:01
They've been doing a few studies with long COVID and statins and the endothelial lining. But the truth is we've got a lot of other natural ways that we can affect the healthy endothelium and that we can keep cholesterol healthy. What are some of the ways? So say no statins. We both agree on that for the general population and most people who are prescribed them. What do people do instead? Give us an overview of how you look at the heart.
Dr. Wolfson 17:28
Back to the statins. I think there are really threefold problems. Number one, the evidence says that they don't work very well. Even the evidence that they produce. You and I both know, Dr. Jill, that it's not about, how do you reduce someone's heart attack risk from 2% annually to 1.8%? That's what it's not about. Where you and I work, it's like, “Hey, we want you to have a 0% chance of having a heart attack.” I know you, Dr. Jill, personally—you want a 0% chance of the bad things. And we know that the medical community doesn't offer that.
Dr. Wolfson 17:58
Statin drugs have very little benefit, according to their literature. They provide a false sense of security because people walk around and they're like: “Oh, I can take a Lipitor, Crestor, or Zocor and eat whatever I want.” Big, big, big mistake. But yet, that's what I told… “Eat healthy exercise and take your statin.” Like, what kind of advice is that? And then threefold, obviously the side effect profile is tremendous there.
Dr. Wolfson 18:25
So when it comes to real prevention, we just focus on what we call the 100-year heart method. You'll practice something very similar with a different title. And it essentially just comes down to what I call thrival—thrival nutrition, thrival lifestyle, which also includes the thrival mindset, thrival biohacking, which are evidence-based supplements, and then other biohacking strategies: Sauna, red light, IV therapy, as you said, membrane replacement therapy, which I love. I totally agree with that. We're trying to replace the phospholipids in the cell membranes. Love, love, love.
Dr. Wolfson 19:00
And then ultra-diagnostics. And again, that's where you and I shine. So many other practitioners—it's not that they're not smart people. I wasn't at the top of my graduating class. I wasn't number one. I wasn't the valedictorian. And I didn't go to Harvard Medical School. But they only know what they know. And then, of course, it's very difficult to get out of that medical matrix, if you will, because your money depends on it, your livelihood, your prestige. Doing what you and I did to jump over to the functional side, I'm sure you, like I did, lost plenty of colleagues along the way here because they don't want to believe in that. But that's our methodology: A 100-year-heart method.
Dr. Wolfson 19:44
And it's about root cause. So, like you said, if cholesterol is found at the scene of the crime, why is it there, and how do we prevent the crime? We prevent the crime by improving our diet, our lifestyle, and our mental attitude for sure.
Dr. Jill 20:01
Fantastic. You gave us a little statistic on the ApoB/ApoA ratio. Was it the opposite? Did I say that correctly?
Dr. Wolfson 20:09
Yeah, you got it.
Dr. Jill 20:10
And then what about lipoprotein (a)? Is there anything else people might want to ask their doctors to test? I know that with Boston Heart, Cleveland, they have all these wonderful panels. What are your go-to things that you want to see in the lab work on your patients, like the main core?
Dr. Wolfson 20:24
Well, if I could pick one thing, it would be markers. I'm not going to say one thing right now; I guess I'm going to say multiple things. But it's any markers of inflammation or oxidative stress. So if I want to pick one surrogate in the heart world, it would be oxidized LDL. So, damaged LDL particles. The vast, vast, vast majority of evidence shows that LDL is not the problem, which is why all mammalian species make LDL. It's not the bad cholesterol. It has a purpose—many, many, many purposes. It's part of the immune system, the antioxidant system. If you think of LDL as a bus, it delivers passengers around the body. We talked about fat-soluble vitamins—A, D, E, K—CoQ10, triglycerides, and the ever-important cholesterol molecules. But I want to know about damaged particles [and] oxidized LDL—it's very important—but then inflammation. And they all ride together, as you know.
Dr. Wolfson 21:19
So when you have inflammation and oxidative stress, you're likely going to have abnormal apolipoprotein B/A ratios. There is something called Lp(a). It's present in about 15% to 20% of the population, and it's there for a reason. This is not a mistake. It likely had benefits in a paleolithic world where trauma was common or birth trauma that had probably helped in some ways for women to avoid excess bleeding postpartum and then also in times of trauma. So that gene has survived for a reason. In a 21st-century world where we don't even cut ourselves shaving, it may not have much of a benefit—Lp(a). Increased risk of heart attack, stroke and atrial fibrillation, for example. That is something everybody should be tested for.
Dr. Wolfson 22:07
Now, the answer is not going to be some kind of injection or pharmaceutical to lower it down. There's no evidence that that's going to be of benefit. There are some natural strategies for that. Time-released niacin has the best data for that. And then also, because it does lead to hypercoagulability, that's where you can get into some of your natural blood thinners that can be helpful: Nattokinase, lumbrokinase, and others. But those are my favorites. But you and I both love toxin testing. I think showing people the piece of paper that says, “You are severely high in mold,” “You are severely high in plastic and bisphenol A and phthalates and parabens and VOCs, pesticides”—this is massive, massive, massive stuff that everybody needs to know about.
Dr. Wolfson 22:57
That recent study that showed that if you've got carotid artery plastic—after you undergo surgery, they remove the carotid artery plaque—if you had plastic in your arteries, you had triple the rate of heart attack, stroke, and dying over a three-year period, which makes plastic a bigger risk factor than just about everything combined. It's bad. And people are talking about seed oils as being the problem. So I think there's a lot bigger focus of where we need to take a look.
Dr. Wolfson 23:26
I love intracellular vitamin minerals. I love intracellular vitamin K2, for example. K2 keeps calcium in the bones out of the arteries. We want to know that information. Omega-3 fatty acids. All these wonderful tests that unfortunately insurance doesn't cover, they're still extremely valuable. And then, like I said, you get that in color, not black and white. You get it in color, and you show people their results. And I think that is a major epiphany moment to get people to change.
Dr. Jill 23:54
I love that because it's so parallel to my world and the kinds of things we test. The intracellular, extracellular nutrients Dr. Wolfson is talking about: I usually use Vibrant micronutrients. There's also SpectraCell out there. But these are great tests that you could ask your functional doctor to run on you. And I have really liked them. I do them yearly myself, and it's pretty profound.
Dr. Jill 24:16
The bigger picture that you're describing… I have often said functional medicine is simple; it's not easy. But it's often toxic load plus infectious burden and the intertwining of the immune system. And it's no different from heart disease. People think this is another realm, environmental toxicity, but it affects…
Dr. Jill 24:32
A story I'd love you to comment on because I think it's all connected: I just have a recent cardiologist in our world that we both know well who passed away suddenly. He was in his 70s but otherwise [in] good health. And he had been in a moldy house—a significantly moldy house. Ten days before he died, he called and left me a voice message: “Dr. Jill, can I talk to you about this mold? It's killing me. I think this mold is killing me.” I have the voice memo. And then he had an abscess tooth, which a dentist tried to do a root canal on. And three days after his abscess tooth was… They basically failed that attempt to get the abscess gone. So, as you can imagine, the infection and maybe some cardiovascular disease. But he was a cardiologist and an integrative one, so he knew what he was doing in a moldy home. From your perspective, thinking about that little vignette, any thoughts on how the dental stuff and then being in the mold might have contributed to his death?
Dr. Wolfson 25:24
I had not heard that story of what you just shared, so thank you for providing insight. His loss is horrific for multiple different reasons, and he is the founding father of holistic cardiology for sure. I did know him.
But listen, mold is so catastrophic, and it's also so difficult to deal with as well, especially when you're sick, to get your head wrapped around: “Okay, what do I do about this? I'm going to move out of my house. I'm going to get all new clothes. I'm going to move into a brand new hotel or a tent.” It's so difficult. Then a lot of times those same people four out of five times are women, and the women don't have the support of their significant other. The man's over there. He feels fine. He's like, “Oh, I'm good.” He's got high blood pressure and high cholesterol, allegedly. He's on several pharmaceuticals. He's got erectile dysfunction. He's got memory loss, but he feels fine. He's like, “The mold's not bothering me at all.”
Dr. Wolfson 26:27
Mold, I think, ultimately, yes, it destroys the gut microbiome, and in doing so, it's also a tremendous immunosuppressant. Then probably in the case, like you said, with the dental infection—those two combined. And then, listen, we live in an electromagnetic field world. What that does from a heart rhythm standpoint. What that does to everything in the body. How these manmade electromagnetic fields, technology, and blue light are all going to have a major, major impact. But that's a tremendous loss. And I wish he would have realized it sooner. I wish everybody would have realized it sooner.
Dr. Jill 27:03
I know. It was very heartbreaking because I had the memo. And I was able to talk to him before but it was a little too late. And it's funny because I remember the conversation we had after he had called, and it was like, “Oh, I know I've got to leave but it's so hard.” What you just described—I actually have the deepest compassion because, at the end, it was one day too late. He was supposed to be moving out of the house the day after he passed away. So it was this very tragic story. But in some ways, his legacy lives on.
Dr. Jill 27:30
I have permission from his family to share because they want the word to get out that this is more than just the heart. It's the toxic load, it's the EMFs, it's the poorly done dental issues or ignored root canals or cavitations or things because we know that all. And we can go on and on about all the different factors, but it's really, really important because I think a lot of people are missing the boat and they're looking to statins and they're looking to these other drugs that are not doing what we need to be doing.
Dr. Wolfson 28:00
Yes. Back to the point: I sympathize as you do and empathize with all the people out there that are affected. You mentioned this earlier on as far as how easy it is to be a conventional cardiologist. It really is that easy; it's not to say that it's not stressful. I mean, you're dealing with people with heart attacks and cardiac arrest. There's definitely stress being in the hospitals with the sickest of the sick. But life is pretty easy: Blood pressure is high: “Here are your pills.” Cholesterol is abnormal, allegedly: “Take these pills.” You have chest discomfort? “Get angioplasty, stent, bypass surgery. Replace a valve.” I just ran through the litany of all of our treatments in less than a minute. Yet, you get to the holistic world, where you and I live and we've got an infinite number of strategies, especially when it comes into evidence-based supplements and biohacking strategies.
Dr. Wolfson 28:54
You and I both go to A4M [and] speak at A4M. And you're walking around, like hundreds of vendors in the biohacking space. But all that lies on the foundation of eating the right foods; avoiding the wrong foods. All those biohacking things are not going to help if you're living in mold. Again: They can help your symptoms a little bit but it's another band-aid approach. If you've got a failed root canal procedure—which they're all, as far as I'm concerned, failures—it's hard to biohack your way out of that.
Dr. Wolfson 29:25
I said this years ago: “The truth about cancer—you can't get healthy in the same environment where you got sick.” It doesn't mean you need to move to the mountains of Costa Rica—although I recommend it—but you've got to do something to radically make the changes.
Dr. Wolfson 29:40
And then let me say one more thing: Dr. Jill, I participate in some of these online communities, like a toxic mold support group and stuff like that, because I want to just put my two cents in there and get my wisdom into that. And to me, it's really that simple: Once you find out that you're living in mold, you need to get out immediately because, as you mentioned, you may be one day too late, and you don't want that.
Dr. Jill 30:09
Gosh, I love that we're kind of wrapping up with this. I think one of the biggest lessons as a mold expert was having the confidence to say the truth to the patient even though I knew it would cost them emotionally, financially, [and] whatever else. And I'm very confident. I'm like, “No, this is a situation you don't want to be in,” and I'll tell them. But I think even talking to other doctors, or if you're out there listening as a client or patient and you're worried and you're concerned, or you know there's mold, do not delay. It could literally cost you your life. So I love that we agree on that because it's hard to say, “You need to leave your house” or “It's going to cost you this much money.” And I don't want to be alarmist but when it is significant and I have all the evidence, I'm no longer afraid to tell the patient: “This is killing you.” It's a big deal.
Dr. Wolfson 30:55
Yeah. And I think you know that you're really onto something as a practitioner when you can count the number of divorces that you've caused. That's like a badge of honor in my world and with my wife and I. And I'm sure you've been privy to that as well. Now, that probably starts on the shaky foundation and there are all kinds of things. But again, the truth does hurt, but you've got to get the truth out there. You and I would want to know the truth if we're being poisoned. So would anybody else.
Dr. Jill 31:26
Excellent. Well, last bits of wisdom. If you were to tell your younger self… It's so interesting: I was looking back at our journeys and what led us there and you meeting your wife and all of that. But if you would go back and give your younger self any bit of wisdom, what would that be? What would you tell your 18-year-old self?
Dr. Wolfson 31:43
People ask me, do I feel better now that I found this kind of healthy religion?—if you will. And I felt great when I was 33, and I feel great when I'm 53. But for me, it was all about prevention—about not wanting to become like my father. I learned the hard way about mold because of my wife becoming sick in a house we were living in [in] 2016-2018, dealing with problems postpartum with our third child, issues with nursing, latching, tongue tie—all these various things that we believe were really from mold.
Dr. Wolfson 32:20
But if I could go back and tell myself… And I use this strategy when we are talking to 18-year-olds, and we're like: “Hey, I wish someone told me this when I was your age. You may or may not listen, but this is just the truth. This is just the reality.” And, Jill, I tell you, if I would have told this information to myself when I was 18, I probably would have laughed in that person's face. I was not in the place for that. I was an 18-year-old punk. University of Illinois in a fraternity house. I wouldn't have listened. All we can do is share the truth, and then what other people do with the truth is up to them.
Dr. Jill 32:55
Good for you. And who knew we both went to the University of Illinois? That was my undergrad. How cool!
Dr. Wolfson 33:02
I didn't know that! I didn't know that. Wow!
Dr. Jill 33:04
Yeah. I loved it. That's amazing.
Dr. Wolfson 33:07
I'm much older than you, so I didn't know you.
Dr. Jill 33:11
Very cool. Thank you again for taking the time to come on and share your wisdom. Where can people find you? Where can people find more about your programs?
Dr. Wolfson 33:20
If you've got cardiovascular issues, naturalheartdoctor.com. We love getting people off of pharmaceuticals [and] offering people a second opinion when they're on pharmaceuticals. Myself, I've got another cardiologist, a couple of naturopathic doctors, [and a] team of health coaches over at our place. We've been doing virtual consultations since 2012. But the most important thing I think is just to seek out a second opinion, no matter where you are, from a holistic provider for sure.
Dr. Jill 33:48
Thank you for your work in the world and for bringing truth to especially cardiovascular disease. Appreciate you so much, Dr. Wolfson.
Dr. Wolfson 33:56
Thank you. Thank you so much, Dr. Jill.
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