Dr. Jill Carnahan and Brook Herbert dive deep into the journey from dis-ease to domination, exploring how you can empower within and become the expert of your own health. They discuss the importance of mental health and gut health, and how these critical aspects are interconnected in your overall wellness.
Whether you're struggling with chronic issues or simply looking to optimize your well-being, this episode is packed with actionable advice and inspiring stories. Learn how to harness the power of natural healing remedies and build a resilient body and mind.
Key Points
✅ Learning to trust your intuition is one of the first steps to healing
✅ Slowing down and being present is key to a healthy nervous system
✅ Find new ways to regulate your nervous system and overall health and create a supportive team that works for you
Our Guest – 👨⚕️ Brook Herbert
Brooke is a Board Certified Health and Wellness Coach, entrepreneur, and cofounder of Gold Ivy Health Co., podcast host, and group fitness instructor. After spending 5 years as a medical mystery, Brooke now takes what she’s learned to empower women to never stop advocating for their health and to reclaim their power by healing from within. Brooke has transformed her gut health and life, and has now helped thousands do the same. She uses ancient healing remedies, inner wisdom, and the psychology of behavior change to help women transform their pain to peace and frustration to freedom.
Website: https://goldivyhealthco.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/goldivyhealthco/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXBMqcMHUwkToYb-kkAuD_w
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Dr. Jill Carnahan is Your Functional Medicine Expert® dually board certified in Family Medicine for ten years and in Integrative Holistic Medicine since 2015. She is the Medical Director of Flatiron Functional Medicine, a widely sought-after practice with a broad range of clinical services including functional medical protocols, nutritional consultations, chiropractic therapy, naturopathic medicine, acupuncture, and massage therapy.
As a survivor of breast cancer, Crohn’s disease, and toxic mold illness she brings a unique perspective to treating patients in the midst of complex and chronic illness. Her clinic specializes in searching for the underlying triggers that contribute to illness through cutting-edge lab testing and tailoring the intervention to specific needs.
A popular inspirational speaker and prolific writer, she shares her knowledge of hope, health, and healing live on stage and through newsletters, articles, books, and social media posts! People relate to Dr. Jill’s science-backed opinions delivered with authenticity, love and humor. She is known for inspiring her audience to thrive even in the midst of difficulties.
Featured in Shape Magazine, Parade, Forbes, MindBodyGreen, First for Women, Townsend Newsletter, and The Huffington Post as well as seen on NBC News and Health segments with Joan Lunden, Dr. Jill is a media must-have. Her YouTube channel and podcast features live interviews with the healthcare world’s most respected names.
The Podcast
The Video
The Transcript
230: Resiliency Radio with Dr. Jill: Reclaim Power: Become your Own Health Expert w/ Brook Herbert
Dr. Jill 00:00
Hey, everybody. Welcome to Resiliency Radio, your go-to podcast for the most cutting-edge insights in integrative and functional medicine. I'm your host, Dr. Jill, and with each episode, we dive into the heart of healing and personal transformation. Join us as we connect with renowned experts, medical thought leaders, innovators, and everyone in general who wants to change the face of how we do medicine and how we help people to heal. I'm here today to empower you with optimal health and healing and with insights and hopefully aha moments that maybe transform your path to that optimal healing.
Dr. Jill 00:34
Today, I'm super excited to have my guest. I was on their podcast recently. I want to introduce her. Brook is a board-certified health and wellness coach, entrepreneur, and co-founder of Gold Ivy Health Co., a podcast host, and a group fitness instructor. After spending five years as a medical mystery, Brook now takes what she's learned to empower women to never stop advocating for their health and to reclaim their power by healing from within. Brook has transformed her own gut health and life and now has helped thousands to do the same. She uses ancient healing remedies, inner wisdom, and the psychology of behavioral change to help women transform their pain to peace and frustration to freedom.
I love that, Brook. Welcome to the show.
Brook Herbert 01:15
Thank you. I'm so honored to be here. Like you mentioned, you were on our podcast, Ivy Unleashed, and our audience loved you. And to now be on your podcast is such an honor. So thank you.
Dr. Jill 01:25
You're welcome. I had so much fun. I was saying [that] you connect on the heart level with people. That was how we did, and it was really, really great. And I'm so glad to have you here.
I want to start, as always—my listeners know—with your backstory because I feel like that drives everything. Again, we'll hear you in just a second here. But often we don't know it's coming, and it sucks while it's happening, and the suffering isn't fun. But through that, the biggest thing that I love to share with people listening is [that] often it's in the darkest moments, it's in the suffering where we find ourselves and sometimes find even a greater purpose in life. So tell us about your story.
Brook Herbert 02:03
Yeah! There's no light without darkness. If you would have told me that when I was in the midst of my healing journey… My healing journey continues today. I'm not healed. I like to say that I'm always healing. I'm always evolving. Life gets lifey. But back when I was a junior in college, if you would have told me that, I would not have liked those words. And that's because I was in such a dark place. I was a junior in college. I was in a summer internship that honestly was my dream internship. Life was really good. I was living in Florida for the summer. And towards the end of my internship, I started developing all these symptoms that I knew something wasn't right. But given the circumstances—it was a summer internship, I was in college, I was a woman, I was traveling—these were the things I was hearing from doctors when I would go in and say: “Why does my stomach hurt after everything I'm eating? Why is my face breaking out? Why am I really constipated? Why am I so anxious and depressed and fatigued?” And I couldn't figure it out.
Brook Herbert 03:10
Fast forward: I saw over 50 different doctors and practitioners. I went down the road of alternative medicine, seeing chiropractors and acupuncturists. I finally stumbled into functional medicine, which is why your work and this podcast are so near and dear to my heart. I learned about functional medicine and I had an appointment. In that appointment, she said: “Have you ever heard of a GI-MAP test?” I said no. Fifty practitioners and finally. Finally! It was that test that really gave me my answers. I was full of parasites and bad bacteria. And then that turned into doing a mold toxicity test. And it just kept unraveling.
Brook Herbert 03:52
As I would get deeper in that functional medicine world, my need for yoga and stress management and these ancient tools that were free when functional medicine wasn't, I was able to bridge this gap of: “How do I keep getting the care I need but learn the basics of taking care of myself? Why did I get sick in the first place?” And that led me to becoming a coach and a yoga instructor and a podcast host and all the things I am and why I'm here today.
Dr. Jill 04:22
I love that, Brook. And thank you for sharing. It's so interesting because one of the things I know you and I share so much with our listeners and want people to hear is… I am a practitioner, so I obviously have this education stuff to bring, but so often the biggest gift that I can give patients like you or like your experience or like anyone who comes in is: How do I help them connect with their own innate wisdom? And I will say, as a patient—I've been both doctor/patient with breast cancer, Crohn's, and everything—so often what happened, even as I was in med school, even as I had a medical education, is I would relegate that authority to someone who I thought knew better than me.
Dr. Jill 05:00
And the story of my gastroenterologist who said, “Diet has nothing to do with Crohn's disease”—I've told that many, many times and my listeners have heard me—in that place, I had this intuitive sense, like, “That can't be true.” So tell us about the things that maybe you had to question, some of the things you were told, like, “It's all stress,” “it's all,” whatever. I think when our mind says either “That can't be true” or “What else is possible?” these kinds of thought processes open our subconscious up to have a deeper understanding. So tell us about your journey to reconnect with your own innate wisdom, because that, at the core, is the best healing.
Brook Herbert 05:37
Yeah. Oh, absolutely. I always say, “You're your own best doctor.” And I did not believe that during the midst of my journey, because you want so badly for this doctor to tell you what is wrong and to have that solution and that missing piece. And they wear this title. “You're the authority. You should know. This is your job.” So every doctor I would see, I would leave a little more broken, a little more discouraged. And I would also leave a little more curious of, “Okay, my voice was taken, but this is not how my story ends.” That is what kept me going: “This is not how my story ends; this is not how my story ends.”
Brook Herbert 06:19
So for anyone listening, if something in you knows that something's off, it is our job to listen to it and to get curious with ourselves. So I read the books and I found the podcast. That's how I found functional medicine—these podcasts of: “Okay, so doctors that I'm seeing, they're talking about acute illness. And now there's this other type of medicine that's really talking about chronic illness. And maybe that's who I need to see.” So I really tapped into this curiosity and these resources that I had of other people that had healed themselves and [asked], “What were they doing?” The stories they had of “no one listened to me” made me feel not alone. I didn't know any of these people through social media and the gifts of hearing their stories. And then also quieting that outside noise to be able to hear me of, “Okay, what is really wrong?” And I just didn't give up.
Brook Herbert 07:18
It's a tricky spot to be in—anyone that can relate that's listening. It's, “Am I crazy? Is this all in my head?” But we have this inner knowing that something is off. And I've learned that these symptoms, these signals we're getting, are our body's way of communicating with us. It's not a bad thing; it's not a good thing. It is what it is. So it's our job to listen.
Brook Herbert 07:43
So I learned to meditate, and I learned all of these natural healing remedies. I learned about coffee enemas. It was in these coffee enemas, which is so wild—it actually forced me to sit still, to hear, and to have these downloads from the universe of, “Okay, you're on the right track—listening to your body, what responds well in my body.” So these doctors were the authority. But at the end of the day, I was the authority of my own health.
Dr. Jill 08:19
I love the way you say that. A couple of things I want to frame, and I think it's so important for our listeners to just realize they do have a voice. And there's a fine line. There are a lot of influencers out there who have no degree or no health background. They might be telling their stories to inspire, but then they maybe don't really have the background of a deep dive. And I always want to caution: Just make sure you know who has credentials, who you're listening to on that side.
Dr. Jill 08:40
But on this other side, it's so critical that our allopathic, traditional… I was steeped in this traditional medical training, and I know it firsthand: We are not taught nutrition, we are not taught root cause, which is diving deep, like in the stool testing that you had or the organic acids that I do. And every patient that comes in for me does all that testing. So I use that good science. And even nowadays, it doesn't have to be an MD. There are a lot of good, credentialed people who really know what they're doing. But also find someone that you resonate with who listens to you and validates you. Because I know, as we talked, one of the most important things I can do as a patient walks in is really listen to their story, validate their experience. And certainly not—it's not all in your head. It's so connected.
Dr. Jill 09:25
And I'd love to hear your take on this. One of the things that I experienced in medical school was: You have to survive in this world. And you're going. For us, it was 36-hour shifts. You don't eat and you don't pee and you don't drink and you don't sleep and you deny all your physical needs. So I had a really good lesson in how to completely shut down everything below the neck and be like, “Shut up, you,” to my body and tell it to behave so that I could do my thing. And then I realized, in my healing, I had to go back down into my somatic body. The gut is upset or a little bit of heartburn or a little bit of anxiety—these are all signals that our body is giving us that something's not quite right. And it may be the food that we're eating, the environmental toxic load. But it also could be wrong relationships or the wrong job or the wrong sleep habits.
Dr. Jill 10:13
How did you start to reconnect with… Because it sounds like you, like me, had this intuitive, little quiet voice that was starting to try to get your attention. But then, as you meditated, as you found the right practitioners to validate that, you were able to listen more. How did you reconnect with that somatic feeling to help you to heal?
Brook Herbert 10:32
The first thing that comes to mind is asking the right questions. For the longest time, I would say: “Why is this happening to me? What is wrong?” I would get so upset. I reframe that to: “What is my body trying to tell me? What is really off here? What's the deeper thing going on?”
Brook Herbert 10:54
It wasn't until I became a board-certified health coach that I learned these techniques of positive behavior change and reframing. It was really cool because, as I was studying, these aha moments were going off for me. So health became my world as I was trying to figure out my own health. And I knew: “Okay, the only way to make sense of this is if I can help someone else. If I can use my pain for good.” “I will get a reward from this” was my thought process.
Brook Herbert 11:23
So as I was reading these books, and then the same thing, becoming a yoga instructor, I learned about the importance of slowing down and that our brain's job is to answer the questions we give it. So when I sit here and I calm my nervous system and I ask myself, “What are you trying to tell me?” this morning, I have a stomach ache, like: “Well, you didn't sleep well. You've been rushed since the moment you opened your eyes. It's go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go. You're thinking about the next thing. You need to slow down. You don't need another cup of coffee. You don't need caffeine.” So slowing down to be able to hear myself think and asking those questions, because ultimately, I do know the answers.
Brook Herbert 12:06
Yes, I needed the help with the stool tests and certain things like that. But I always say 90% of what helped me was free, and it was really lifestyle changes. It was setting boundaries but also having the courage to keep those boundaries. I'm not working past a certain hour. I'm not working on the weekends. And that's still something I am playing with and experimenting with because, like you said, how do you handle everything that life throws at you? And then to still be healthy, especially in today's world, is not easy.
Dr. Jill 12:41
Let's talk boundaries, because I have a feeling a lot of our listeners out there are like: “Yeah, Brook and Jill, come on! Help me out with this.” Because what I've seen, and I've been so deliberate, the year before, 2023, I was signing books and going to premieres and movie and book and speaking—and it was amazing and beautiful and insane—and by the end of the year, I felt like I could barely get out of bed, and I was so exhausted. My adrenals were flatlined. And once again, I listened to myself in the early part of the year. I said, “Okay, this has to change.” And my body was like: “Yes, please!” So I was like: “Okay, I don't do overwhelm, and I don't do overcommitment.” And that was my 2024 promise to myself. So I had to very deliberately set these boundaries. And it's still hard.
Dr. Jill 13:21
What would you tell the person out there struggling? Because what's happened is the demands on our time, the 24/7 access to us through our phones, through whatever else, the amount of information that's exponentially increasing is creating this urgency that's not true. So as a coach, how do you talk to someone about these? How do they get out of that grind, that treadmill?
Brook Herbert 13:42
Yes. That urgency—it's so real. It's so real. And I think one of the most important things to do and that I do is: Is it true? When you feel that come up, “It's urgent; I have to respond,” is that true? No, this isn't brain surgery. They're going to be okay. And just that slowing down, because when you're in that overwhelm, it's very easy to keep going. So the pause. You can slow down, calm your nervous system and tap back into that parasympathetic nervous system. And start small. If anyone who's listening is anything like me: “Okay, I'm going to do 10 things differently, starting tomorrow. This is going to be great. I'm feeling so overwhelmed. I need to change all of these things.” And then we don't do anything because it's way too much.
Brook Herbert 14:31
So, “Okay, what can I start doing today?” For me, it's having that discussion with my boyfriend of, “Hey, I need lights to go off at nine o'clock. I am really not feeling well. Here's what's going on. Here's honestly how I'm feeling. And I would really love your support.” And he's like, “Okay. Duh.” We have these stories in our head of “I feel bad” and the shame and the guilt. So starting slow, voicing what you need, and then putting the things in place to make that happen. Accountability is huge—telling someone else about it.
Brook Herbert 15:06
Right now, for me, that looks like I don't want to work past six o'clock. I don't want to work on the weekends. That doesn't always happen because life isn't perfect. You're not always going to keep your boundaries because things happen. But I've at least set this expectation of “This is what I'm working towards. This is what's important to me.” I have it on the notes on my phone that I look at every day. So I'm reminded of that. And I'm reminded of, “Why is that important? What am I actually going for?” And right now, when I quiet down and I ask myself, “What does success look like for me?” it looks like feeling fulfilled and feeling at peace. And a lot of the things on my to-do list don't correlate to that. Just having that reminder has been a huge game-changer for me.
Brook Herbert 15:58
It's not about completing all the things on the to-do list. Things are going to keep accumulating on that to-do list. So what actually feels good in my body? And how can I create a life that allows that to happen? Because ultimately, we are in control. We do have the pen. We are writing the story. It's not going to change overnight. But [it's about] having those little, small steps, those little shifts that completely change the trajectory of where you're going.
Dr. Jill 16:26
I love that. So I want to take what you just said and give you some practical… And you kind of said some of those too for those listeners, like, “What can we practically do?” The first thing I heard you say was having your values. For me, it's like autonomy/freedom. I really value in my life being able to decide in real time what I want to do and what I don't want to do and how much I want to do. So that autonomy/freedom. Peace, like you said, is so key. In fact, I just told the company the other day [that] no amount of money would allow me to do this if it took away my peace or my autonomy. There's just nothing worth it. So always valuing that, especially in regards to compensation.
Dr. Jill 17:07
And then I heard you say reminders. I use reminders on my phone, and I love that. I actually remind myself of some of my own messaging, like how I want to appear in the world. One of them on my phone is: “It's the light of God within you that creates miracles in my life.” So I remember this gratitude—that it's the Divine through me. If I see anything good in my life, I'm like: “Yep! I know where that came from.” And it just keeps me humble and realizing, “I am so lucky to be a transient, conduit”—transient, conduit, whatever—for that light to flow within me. But that's a reminder on my phone to remind me where this light comes from and that I'm just a conduit.
Dr. Jill 17:44
And then the other thing I heard you say, it kind of alludes to Byron Katie's work, Is This True? Is it really true? And we kind of ask ourselves those things. So often we have a story around what's true and what's not true. And if we really ask, “Is that really true? How can I be sure that's true?” Again, check out Byron Katie's work. It's amazing—the questions that she goes through. And you can question our belief system. And as we question—when we say, “What else is possible?” when we say, “Is this really true?”—we start to allow our subconscious to chew on that and open it up to “Maybe there's something else possible. Maybe this isn't true.” And those are really powerful.
Dr. Jill 18:20
The other thing I've heard before is that, as we look at my to-do list, which is sitting right beside me here, I might go down and say: “Does that item on my to-do list make me feel expansive and fulfilled and full of love and joy? Or does it make me feel contracted and smaller and unhappy?” Not like, “I have to take out the dog” or whatever kind of thing. We might have something that is not always expansive. But if it's the big goals or the thing we're going to spend our whole day on, we better make sure it's something aligned with our vision and not just something that someone else told us.
Dr. Jill 18:54
And I've always heard the shoulds and the musts. We have those things like: “I should fulfill this. I should show up for this person. I must do this.” And that's where we can start to question and say, “Is that really true?” And what I've learned this year by way of a roller skating accident and a broken wrist… I had these two big obligations in February, and I was so excited to be part of it. They were full of joy. But I broke my wrist, and I had to let them down—these two events where they literally planned on me as a main event. They went on fine without me. Letting people down and saying, “I'm so sorry I can't be there” was the practice. And it was so hard. But once I did, it was like: “Hey, it was just fine without me, and I didn't need to be there.” And it taught me that no matter what comes, even if it feels like a massive obligation, if it really, really doesn't fit or you're sick or you're hurting or things have changed, you can still say no. And you can let people down and it will still be okay, right?
Brook Herbert 19:48
Yes. Yeah, saying no.
Dr. Jill 19:51
Yeah, how have you done that?
Brook Herbert 19:54
Yeah. I don't know whose quote it is—the quote that “No is a complete sentence.” And not feeling guilty for saying no. Something that really helps me is the reframe of when I say yes to someone else and I don't want to, it's saying no to me. So by me saying no to them, I'm saying yes to me. This is actually very top of mind for me, so it's funny you bring it up.
Brook Herbert 20:16
I've been talking to friends lately about how November is going to be No-vember. I'm going to practice saying no because I am in this space where we're building our business. We've got a lot of awesome momentum. And it's so easy as an entrepreneur getting started to say yes to all of these opportunities, these unpaid things, these paid things. You see the value in all of them. And “Oh, who could I meet? And what could this connection bring me?” But when you are doing it at the expense of your energy and your health…
Brook Herbert 20:49
And right now, how I'm feeling is I need to take a beat. I get up at 4:30 a.m. to teach a 6:00 a.m. yoga class. I'm spreading myself very thin, and I feel that in my body and the symptoms that I'm having. So that's my cue of “Okay, let's reel it in. Let's be very intentional with what we say yes to.”
Brook Herbert 21:08
And a simple rule I'm going to practice for everyone listening who is like “I need something tactical” is giving myself 24 hours before I say yes or no. “So let me get back to you.” I'm just practicing that: “Let me look; I'll get back to you.” And that also helps with that urgency feeling. They will be okay if you wait 24 hours. And if they're not, well, then that opens a conversation and you can see why not. But most of the time, they will be okay.
Brook Herbert 21:37
So that's something I'm practicing in no-November. It's not a no forever, but right now I have to say yes to myself. And I'm really excited to see what that brings as far as my creative juices and getting my nervous system to calm back down. I think that's something that everyone can relate to and have some help with if you're anything like me.
Dr. Jill 22:00
One hundred percent. And thank you for sharing the practical tips there, because that's really what we need. November—I'm going to remember that. I love it. I'm in the same space. Really, really, there is so much chaos, so much information overload, and so much obligation feeling this 24/7 culture that I think we're not unique. I think probably everybody listening is feeling some of this urgency and some of this obligation. And there's nothing wrong with showing up for friends and family, showing up for yourself, showing up for loved ones. There's nothing wrong with that. But my history was doing all that at the expense of my own health and at the expense of my own needs and finding that balance. And I think today, more than ever, we are required to create this real important priority.
Dr. Jill 22:42
And I always say there's these circles. And the inner circle is those core, core: Friends, loved ones, maybe spouse or partner, maybe your pets, whatever. Core inner circle. The people that you are going to be there 24/7 if they need you—as much as possible. Because most of us have these friend networks that are really, really large and they're beloved and beautiful. I have so many amazing friends. But if I tried to always, always 100% show up for every single one who asked of me, I would be flat on the ground. I would not be able to survive. So even in a good situation, it's okay to say no. I think that's one of the core things we're trying to say here.
Brook Herbert 23:21
Yeah. And if you can't fully show up for that person, it's doing them a disservice. That's something I always remind myself of. I am no good to you if I'm not okay. And that's with anything in life. You get all these opportunities. And I remind myself: It doesn't matter if I'm not okay. I can't fully show up and get all the juice out that I want and be fully present. It's very hard to be present when you don't feel well. And this overwhelm, this urgency with all the information out there—it's not only boundaries, but I think with the health information too, I just want to highlight that. For me, I would cling to all of this information and I'd be like: “Okay, I need to try this diet. And it's this supplement. And I need to add this in.” And it would get so overwhelming, and it would make me so stressed that it would do the opposite. But I would look up all this information and I'd need to change all these things and it would just make me sicker. So I finally caught this pattern and I'm like, “Hmm, okay.”
Brook Herbert 24:19
That's where this idea of “you are your own best doctor” comes in because, by looking at all this information, I was drowning out my own voice when ultimately it was my voice that was trying to tell me what it needed. So when you feel that overwhelm come up too when you're listening to these podcasts or you're reading the books, I just want to call out, don't lose your own voice in there because your best healing modality is: What is your body trying to tell you?
Dr. Jill 24:45
Oh, Brook, there are so many pearls here you're sharing. They're really important, and I can so relate.
One of the things earlier you said that I want to come back to is the “be still” in the beginning. I grew up in a culture of German farm family, work ethic, and do, do, do, do. Education [and] productivity are all really, really high. Nothing wrong with that because it has made me who I am. But I had to learn how to be still because no one would sit around doing nothing. I never had any examples. Again, no problem there because they created a very strong work ethic. But let's talk a little bit about that because, at least for me and probably you too, we have this idea that we're valued based on our productivity and what we bring into the world. Nothing wrong with that. But for me, it was really hard to feel like I was valuable if I sat still or didn't produce or if I took a day off.
Dr. Jill 25:38
It was into my 40s when I actually called in sick. I was sick. Before that, in med school and all that, it was “Show up no matter what.” So how do we transition into the stillness and the being and maybe even taking a whole day just for ourselves and doing nothing productive? That's something that was so foreign to me but I think [it] heals us so deeply when we can do that.
Brook Herbert 26:03
Yeah. I love that you're bringing this up.
First, what comes to mind is: What is your definition of productive? This is a practice. Let me call that out first. This is not something overnight. This is something I will forever be working on—and I know, Dr. Jill, you will too—the doing nothing. But it's the viewing doing nothing as recovering, as productive. Because by me doing nothing, I'm not doing nothing. I'm pouring into me. And just that simple reframe helps so much.
Brook Herbert 26:37
For example, my boyfriend and I are watching football on Sundays. He's an NFL agent. So for him, that is productive. And he gets to use that excuse, which sometimes is not fair. But for me, when I feel that urgency that, “Oh my gosh, I should be doing so many things; I should be meal prepping and it's Sunday and I should be reading a book”—we all have those feelings that come up—I just remind myself: I'm spending quality time with my boyfriend. Is that productive? To me, yes. It's building our relationship. It's nurturing our relationship. So how you speak to yourself is so important.
Brook Herbert 27:13
Another great reminder is [that] we always say: “I'll rest when I get there. I'll be happy when I get there.” And what I've started telling myself is: “I will rest so I get there because if I'm burnt out, I'm not getting there. So I rest so I can get there, not when I get there.” It's these constant reframes that we have to choose over and over and over again.
Brook Herbert 27:43
And at first, it's really uncomfortable to have a full day of doing nothing when you're so used to: Check, check, check it off. But you'll start to see: “Oh, this feels really good. Okay, I can be a lot more productive throughout the week because I have energy. I have worked so hard Monday through Friday that I deserve at least one day a week to sit on my couch and not feel guilty.” Or if these feelings of guilt are coming up, why?
Dr Jill 28:20
That's a great question.
Brook Herbert 28:11
Why is it that you feel guilty for sitting there? Because that's something to unpack.
Dr. Jill 28:17
I had to really go to the value. The common themes that we all have are: Am I too much? Am I not enough? Am I worthy of love? And I could name a bunch of them, but they're all common to humans. And we all have these little stories we tell. And for me, it was: “Am I worthy of love? Or am I worthy of whatever in my life if I'm not productive?” That, to me, was tied to value. And the truth is, just for being born, just for being, we are all worthy of love. But it's a hard lesson sometimes to really integrate that. So I like that you mentioned to practice. Me too.
Dr. Jill 28:53
I'll never forget being in an entrepreneurial mastermind. The speaker was talking about addiction. I kind of tuned out because I've never really struggled with alcohol, drugs, or any sort of addiction, I thought. I was listening, but kind of like: “Whatever. That's not me.” And then he looks at all of us, like: “All of you in this room are addicts. And you know what your addiction is? It's work. And it's accolades.” And it's a socially acceptable form of addiction because you get all this praise in the world, and you're successful, and you're doing all this thing. So it reinforces your behavioral problem with work. And he started questioning us. And it really hit me. And of course, that makes sense, because I love my work. And I think when you love it and you get fulfilled by it, you're helping the world. But I really had to reexamine if that was a coping mechanism.
Dr. Jill 29:42
And this relates to our conversation about being still because what happens is [that] when we're working, any addiction is just a way to deal with our fear or our emotions that we haven't had the chance to process. Whether it's drugs or alcohol or shopping or binge eating or working—bingo!—when I would sit still, all of a sudden, emotions would come up: A little anxiety, “Oh, I'm not being productive enough,” or maybe a little sadness, “I feel alone today, and I didn't feel it when I was so busy.” Or maybe someone feels the grief of an old thing they never grieved—the loss of someone they loved. And for me, that busyness was my addiction to cover up the feelings that I had just shoved, shoved down, and would go work, work, work. And of course, I love my work, so I'm happy and joyful and everything. But when we slow down, I think part of the problem is sometimes uncomfortable emotions sneak up and bubble up.
Dr. Jill 30:36
And I equated it to a wave. When I first started sitting still, it was so overwhelming I felt like I was going to drown. Like, “What is this? I've got to get busy.” But instead of going back to my addiction, I would sit with it and be like: “No, no, no, sweetheart. You're going to be okay.” And then the wave would come over and it felt like it was going to drown me. But once I got through one session like that, I was like: “Oh, wait, I'm fine. And actually, I feel better.”
You had that experience. Do you want to talk a little about the being still and what comes up in that?—because the busyness and the work can be a coping mechanism, right?
Brook Herbert 31:07
Oh my gosh, every day that comes up. And that's why for me, it has to be a practice. It has to be starting slow and starting small. For example, meditation: Sitting for five minutes feels like eternity for most people. And when I first started, it felt like that for me. But can you invite the discomfort? Can you show yourself that it's really not that uncomfortable? It's just foreign. It's not comfortable because it's not the norm for you yet. It's scary, but it's okay. Sitting in that just five minutes. Maybe it looks like a walking meditation where you're just slowing things down and allowing that to become your norm because it feels a lot better. It feels a lot better in your body and your nervous system. You can think a lot clearer. You can take the pause of, “Do I really want to say yes to this?” Going back to those boundaries, “Is this really an alignment with my highest good? Am I saying yes because I feel like I have to or I should or I must, or I actually really want to?”
Brook Herbert 32:19
So when you invite that discomfort, knowing that at the other side of that discomfort is what you want, it's easy to work. It's easy to take the drink, to numb those feelings that are coming up. But when you get curious of “Why am I even having those feelings in the first place?” you get a sense of agency, and you're like: “Oh, I am in control. I don't have to be in this environment.” I think it gives you a massive confidence boost to say: “I sat in the discomfort. I did the hard thing. And it taught me this about myself—that I can now continue life, living more in alignment with how I want my life to be.” So if we can't sit still—and we're human beings, not human doings—what is that showing us?
Brook Herbert 33:12
We're going against culture. Culture is go, go, go. They want to overwhelm you with all this information. So I think it puts us in the power seat of “I'm not going to go with the norm. I'm going to stay aligned with what's true for me.” “And I love myself enough to take care of myself” is ultimately what it comes back to. That fear of “I'm not enough; I'm not worthy,” where did that come from? And do you love yourself enough to end that story? And a lot of times it does take work. It takes therapy. It takes meditation. It takes pouring into you. But you are so worthy of it—of that time and that effort.
Dr. Jill 33:52
Oh, so beautifully said and so important. And you mentioned this earlier too: So often for me, if you really think about productivity, when I have created those spaces and those times—those walking meditations or times with friends or nature or just quiet—that's when I get inspiration and ideas. I remember when 2021 came. It was literally January 1st. We were in the midst of the pandemic and everybody is on screens. And I was like, “Are people reading books anymore?” I had just been editing my book. And the idea came in the stillness and the quiet: “I think I need to do a documentary.”
Dr. Jill 33:52
Now, I have no clue what I'm doing, but what happened out of that is that one idea—[by] sitting still [and] allowing the creativity—I have a documentary out now. And it came from sitting and being still. And so often our moments of what's next or how we want to change our lives or what we want to be involved in or just a creative—if you're a writer or a creator of content or anything—it comes in those… If we don't have the margin, we actually squeeze out the ability to be creative and visionary in our lives. Have you had that experience?
Brook Herbert 34:53
Oh, gosh, yeah. One of my favorite practices is asking myself questions before I sit down and meditate: “What do I need to do? What is my next move? Show me. Show me.” Stepping out of the way, getting out of your own way—exactly what you said—creating that space. And it may sound a little woo-woo-wee, but just try it. Be open to experimenting with it of sitting in stillness.
Brook Herbert 35:27
Because going back to what I said earlier, your brain's job is to answer the questions you give it. So what is in my highest good? What do I really need right now? It might be as simple as: “Do more of this. Meditate more. It feels really good in your body.” Or you get this idea of a documentary. Or maybe your next move is getting your yoga certification and doing that. Maybe it's leaving that job. Maybe you're ready. Maybe it's sending that text. It's just trusting whatever comes in. Trusting your intuition.
Brook Herbert 36:02
Going back—that's a practice. But the more we listen and the more we do it, the stronger it becomes. It's just like a muscle. And then you start to see these signs, and you don't question it. You're like: “Yes, that makes sense. This feels right.” And it's not until you sit in that stillness that you can regain that trust with yourself. Really, what it comes down to is: “I trust myself to make the decisions that will support the life I want to live and to take care of myself.”
Dr. Jill 36:34
So good. And in my own healing, I found that I couldn't really love myself unconditionally with the self-compassion that I want to show the world—and we have to start with ourselves—until I trusted myself. So this is really key: Learning your intuition—what does that voice sound like, what is it telling you?—and then actually trusting that you do have innate wisdom. And of course, you can check in with experts. That's why we have them. It's not like you have to have all the answers but you might have an idea. I was like, “Oh, diet has something to do with my Crohn's disease.” And then I went and looked for the answers with the experts. And you reinforce that intuition. And then, through trusting yourself, you can start to show yourself kindness and compassion, not overcommitting, not overwhelming yourself, and all these practices.
Such good stuff, Brook. Any last parting bits of wisdom? Or if you could talk to your younger self, what would you have told her when she was really struggling now that you know what you know today?
Brook Herbert 37:28
Yeah. I would tell her: “Listen to yourself.” Echoing what we just said, one of my favorite stories to tell is about how I got out of my own way and how I asked the universe and God to show me. I was out with friends. All of the people I love were at this restaurant. Everyone's having conversations, and I can't be present because I feel so sick. And I'm in my head thinking: “All of the people who love me have no idea how much I'm struggling and that I don't want to be here.”
Brook Herbert 38:02
So I get home that night and I'm laying in bed just bawling, thinking: “How did I get here? Lord, what do I do? Help me.” And I got on my hands and knees, and I said: “I surrender. Just show me. I'm done. I'm getting out of my own way.” And all I heard was “functional medicine.” I had known about functional medicine through podcasts I listened to, but it wasn't anything I seriously looked into. And hearing that—call it my voice, God's voice, the universe, whatever—I heard it so clear. I got out my phone and found a practitioner. And it was one of the best things that ever happened to me because I surrendered, and I asked to show me. I created that own space for those downloads, for those words to come through. And that's possible for anyone listening. Ask the questions and listen, and then take action based on what you hear and what feels good.
Dr. Jill 39:04
Oh, Brook, I love that because I have experienced that so many times in my life where I'm just like: “God, I surrender. I need your help. Please, please show me.” And when we are in that posture of complete surrender and open to guidance, it comes. It comes over and over and over again. I could tell story after story after story. So many people are like, “Oh, you're such a great businesswoman.” I'm like, “I just pray a lot.” It's so funny because the truth is that I'm like, “What do I do next?” And God always gives me that insight and wisdom. And I really love that because I think if there's anything we can encourage in this crazy, crazy world with so much overwhelm, so much illness… I know there are listeners of all faith backgrounds that listen, but I'm going to stand here saying there is something greater out there that has your good. And if you listen and call out, you are going to find deep insights and wisdom. So I love that you mentioned that.
Where can people find you and all the wonderful work that you're doing? Give us your website. And if you're listening, we'll put this in the show notes. But tell us where we can find you.
Brook Herbert 40:11
Yeah. I run a company with my cousin, which is very fun, called Gold Ivy Health Co. We're both health coaches, fitness trainers, and podcast hosts. Our podcast is Ivy Unleeshed, where you'll find Dr. Jill's episode and so many other really inspiring stories. That's what we love. We have a virtual wellness platform that encompasses both mental and physical health. That's really what I love—this mind-body connection. So I would say the best way to find us is just Instagram: @goldivyhealthco.
Dr. Jill 40:40
Awesome. If you're driving, don't take time to take notes; it'll be in the show notes.
Oh gosh. Thank you so much, Brook, for coming on the show today.
Brook Herbert 40:48
Thank you so much. It was such an honor.
Dr. Jill 40:51
So fun.
And all of you listening, thank you, guys, for tuning in again. If you have not subscribed, would you please hit the subscribe button? We are approaching 500,000 soon—I'm hoping by the end of the year—on our YouTube channel. And you can find all the transcripts and downloads and everything at my website, JillCarnahan.com, if you want to go and download something or get the transcripts, if you want to read through that. And of course, anywhere you listen to podcasts. And would you please leave us a review and just share it with friends if you enjoyed the episode? Awesome!
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