Welcome to another empowering episode of Resiliency Radio with Dr. Jill Carnahan! In this episode, we sit down with the remarkable Dane Johnson to explore innovative and effective approaches to healing Crohn’s Disease and Colitis, two common and often debilitating forms of Inflammatory Bowel Disease (IBD).
Key Points
- Why mindset is the number one tool in healing and how to become empowered instead of a victim of your illness
- Why journaling and finding patterns may be the most powerful tool in healing from Inflammatory Bowel disease
- Personalization of programs addressing upstream issues like digestion, absorption, infection, inflammation, parasites, yeast and mold are crucial to healing from Crohn's disease
Our Guest – Dane Johnson
Dane Johnson is the Founder/CEO of Crohn's Colitis Lifestyle and a Holistic Nutritionist specializing in reversing Crohn’s Disease and Ulcerative Colitis. Dane’s story ignited through a life-threatening case of Crohn’s/Colitis which nearly took his life December 2014. Since committing his life to natural healing he has remained surgery and medication-free while eliminating IBD symptoms.
To date, Dane and his passionate team of specialists and coaches have created 500+ success stories for reversing IBD symptoms using his signature S.H.I.E.L.D. Program. His international IBD consulting firm is one of the few organizations in the world that only treat IBD, and see roughly 100+ international IBD cases a week despite any unique needs!
Dane and his team have successfully worked with of IBD clients despite surgery, age, medication, past experiences, diet preferences, extreme cases, world location or culture.
His passion, unique experience, and niche in the field of IBD have empowered him to create unparalleled value for real, long-term symptom relief for those suffering from Inflammatory Bowel Disease.
https://crohnscolitislifestyle.com/
https://www.instagram.com/Crohnscolitis_lifestyle
https://www.facebook.com/CrohnsColitisLifestyle
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCf3Yhapgc2Qb16_MP7f-DuQ
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Dr. Jill Carnahan is Your Functional Medicine Expert® dually board certified in Family Medicine for ten years and in Integrative Holistic Medicine since 2015. She is the Medical Director of Flatiron Functional Medicine, a widely sought-after practice with a broad range of clinical services including functional medical protocols, nutritional consultations, chiropractic therapy, naturopathic medicine, acupuncture, and massage therapy.
As a survivor of breast cancer, Crohn’s disease, and toxic mold illness she brings a unique perspective to treating patients in the midst of complex and chronic illness. Her clinic specializes in searching for the underlying triggers that contribute to illness through cutting-edge lab testing and tailoring the intervention to specific needs.
A popular inspirational speaker and prolific writer, she shares her knowledge of hope, health, and healing live on stage and through newsletters, articles, books, and social media posts! People relate to Dr. Jill’s science-backed opinions delivered with authenticity, love and humor. She is known for inspiring her audience to thrive even in the midst of difficulties.
Featured in Shape Magazine, Parade, Forbes, MindBodyGreen, First for Women, Townsend Newsletter, and The Huffington Post as well as seen on NBC News and Health segments with Joan Lunden, Dr. Jill is a media must-have. Her YouTube channel and podcast features live interviews with the healthcare world’s most respected names.
The Podcast
The Video
The Transcript
221: Resiliency Radio with Dr. Jill: Healing Crohn’s and Colitis with Dane Johnson
Dr. Jill 00:00
Welcome to Residency Radio, your go-to podcast for the most cutting-edge insights in integrative and functional medicine. I'm your host, Dr. Jill, and in each episode we dive into the heart of healing, interviewing lifestyle experts, renowned world leaders in research, and medical experts on a variety of topics.
Dr. Jill 00:18
Today, we're going to focus on one of my very favorite topics: Gut health. Many of you know I had a Crohn's disease diagnosis at 26 years old, and here a little bit over 20 years later, I no longer have the diagnosis. We're going to dive into that and so many other things with my special guest today. Let me introduce him.
Dr. Jill 00:35
Dane Johnson is the founder and CEO of Crohn's Colitis Lifestyle and a holistic nutritionist specializing in reversing Crohn's disease and ulcerative colitis. We totally agree on that. We had so much fun talking before we got on about all the things we're doing and what we believe with IBD. Dane's story ignited through a life-threatening case of Crohn's and colitis, which nearly took his life in December 2014. Since committing his life to natural healing, he has remained surgery- and medication-free while eliminating IBD symptoms. To date, Dane and his passionate team of specialists and coaches have created over 500 success stories for reversing IBD symptoms using his signature Shield program. We'll get into that today. His international IBD consulting firm is one of the few organizations in the world that only treat IBD and see roughly 100+ international cases a week despite any unique needs. And you and I know how complicated this can be.
Dane Johnson 01:31
Oh yeah.
Dr. Jill 01:31
Dane and his team have successfully worked with clients despite surgery, age, medication, and past experience.
I am absolutely delighted to welcome you to the show, Dane!
Dane Johnson 01:41
Yes. Thank you so much for having me!
And everyone listening, I dedicate this time to you. If you are chronically sick, feel like you're stuck, and there's nothing that you can do, this episode is dedicated to you. I will deep dive. I will give you all the juice, all the squeeze today, to help you get massive results. Healing is possible.
Thanks for having me.
Dr. Jill 02:00
You are so welcome. And again, I saw your email come through from your PR team, and I was like, “This is someone I want to talk to,” because we didn't know each other before this. And even as we talked the first few minutes before we got on the recording, we have so much in common.
Dr. Jill 02:00
What I love to start with is a story because that drives everything you're doing. And I know you're full of integrity and passion about this. But tell us, what happened? What happened to get you to this place?
Dane Johnson 02:22
Yeah. And it's kind of how I got here. The first thing I'm going to tell you is, whoever you work with, whatever you do, make sure you have trust and integrity in that first because healing is not linear; it's difficult. But if you have that integrity of who you're working with and what you're listening to, like this podcast, you can continue to pivot and find the right way. It's not easy, but it is doable.
Dane Johnson 02:40
And that's what it was for me. I was diagnosed with ulcerative colitis, then Crohn's disease, then ulcerative colitis with gastritis. Nope—back to Crohn's disease. And this is Mayo Clinic, UCLA, Cedars-Sinai, living in California. They didn't really understand what was going on. We knew I had inflammatory bowel disease. It was chronic, and it had become life-threatening by the time I was 26 and nearly died in the hospital. I had my first symptoms at 19 years old: Blood in the stool, urgency, cramping, diarrhea, 8–10 bowel movements. By the time I was 26, it was 25 bloody bowel movements a day, 120 pounds, 6″2′ in a wheelchair, unable to walk.
Dane Johnson 03:17
I was on Entyvio, methotrexate. I was on 200 milligrams of infused prednisone. I had to go on chemotherapy to help save my life, which I'll talk about today. I was on Ambien. I was on painkillers, and I was on antibiotics like Skittles for years, and prednisone. Cortisone steroid for four years on and off: 40 milligrams, taper off, 40 milligrams, taper off, 40 milligrams, taper off. I know a lot of people can relate with that. I also failed when taking mesalamine, 6-MP. 6-MP gave me drug-induced hepatitis, and my liver started failing on that medication.
Dane Johnson 03:50
The point I say in that is that I was not a guy who was against the grain, who was going to come out here and show all these doctors as a young kid that I knew better. I just said, “Doc, give me what you need so I can go back to my life.” I liked cereal. I worked at Papa John's Pizza as a teenager. I liked Subway sandwiches and Chipotle. I grew up in the middle of nowhere in Virginia. I had never heard of natural medicine. I never heard anything about organic food. I never knew anything about the microbiome, the epithelial cell lining we'll talk about today, digestion, what drainage pathways are, how they work, the microbiome, the diversity, or the underlying infections that could be there.
Dane Johnson 04:26
I spent year after year getting worse and worse and worse. When I say worse, I've probably lost control of my bowel movements a hundred times. Gross, but I know people out there can relate. I went from 180 pounds to 120 pounds. The ironic thing is I had this career when I was young. I moved to California. One-way trip. I started making it and acting. I got in some commercials. I was a terrible actor in a few movies. I shot with Nautica, Tommy Hilfiger, Men's Health Magazine, and Men's Fitness. I was 6% body fat, 315-pound bench. I was in the gym two hours a day, every day. So I was a dedicated young man. At the same time, I'm getting diagnosed with an incurable disease for the rest of my life that's causing me to poop blood in the stool like a crime scene.
Dane Johnson 05:15
I'm supposed to be this cool guy, but I'm dealing with extreme shame. It was like I was Two-Face. You remember the Batman movie? I was Two-Face. It was one step, “Put on these clothes, take pictures for this magazine.” The other step, “This is killing you.” And I went through so much pain, so much shame.
Dane Johnson 05:32
My family spent around 30,000 USD [in] the first year trying to heal me naturally, and I only got worse. And I'm not from a wealthy family. We were going broke. We were running out of hope. The medications were not working. By the time I was 24/25, the doctors were bringing up surgery to remove part or all of my colon as a colectomy. That was where the predominant disease was—in the colon. I still had some issues in the stomach. They weren't really sure about the ileum and other parts of the duodenum, which is why they kept going towards ulcerative colitis/Crohn's unsure.
Dane Johnson 06:08
But I refused the surgery, so today I've had no surgeries. I have one to two bowel movements a day. My calprotectin is normal. I can eat a variety of food without fear, worry, doubt. I just got back from Hawaii last week. I have two kids who are perfectly healthy. I'm happily married. I go to the gym five days a week. I could eat a burger and go for a run and be okay. Is that easy? No. Could I do that when I started? No. Do I advise that you try it right now? No. It takes a large amount of skill set to get there. And I'm going to deep dive on that story and that journey of how to make that possible for you, how true healing works, and why I was failing for all those years.
Dane Johnson 06:44
What was I missing in trying these extreme diets and trying intermittent fasting and bone broth, making my own homemade yogurts, and having only pureed carrots for three days? I tried all that stuff, and it does help a lot of people. But if you're chronic and you're sick and you're most likely listening to this podcast, you need something deeper. That's what I'm excited to do today. My story is just pain to purpose. It was the hardest thing and the worst thing that ever happened to me, but nowadays it's the best thing that ever happened to me.
Dr. Jill 07:15
Wow. Okay. That is such a great, concise story. And [there are] so many details I want to dive into. A couple of things that come to mind. First of all, I want to talk about—we call them in functional medicine antecedents and triggers. You had some little clues in there that I picked up on. And I want to hear you tell our audience in just a minute, when you look back, what were some of the things… I don't want to tell anyone listening or you that it's our fault because it's not. There are genetics; there are all kinds of things that play into it. But when we look back, my story is no different. We're like, “Oh, I see how that might have contributed, and that might have contributed,” because sometimes to get to that place of healing, we have to go back and make some really hard choices. So I want to talk about that.
Dr. Jill 07:56
The second thing I want to talk about is your will to overcome. And I want to know more about that. Let's start there because I feel like there is something inside of the people I've seen, like myself, who've overcome cancer, Crohn's, and many other illnesses. There is something inside of us—maybe we call it grit—that allows us to be like: “No, I will find the answer. I know I will. I may not know it now.” What was that in you? What did that look like? Did you have that from birth?
Dane Johnson 08:23
No. The first thing you have to understand is that it's not your fault that this happened to you, but it is for darn sure your responsibility to fix it. Until you can get there mentally where you can forgive yourself, you can forgive God, you can forgive your family all around who cannot relate and cannot help you, and even a check might not be able to do it—that it's not your fault, but it is your responsibility.
Dane Johnson 08:46
That's one of the biggest reasons I was failing for years. Because it wasn't my fault and I got sick and “I have this incurable disease,” Netflix all day long, stuck in my pajamas, not getting ready for the day, not reading. Mom's buying out Whole Foods and paying all this money for me to see all these doctors. And I'm just saying, “Okay, what do I do?” I'm not learning it. I'm not aware. I'm not focused. I'm just reacting. And then I'm looking at my clock, waiting for it to kick in: “All right. I've been on this diet for 10 days now. When's it going to kick in?” Because I was so traumatized and upset the whole time, if I didn't get results quickly, it was easily defeating me, and then I was a victim again. “See, I told you this wouldn't work. See, I told you this diet is BS. I told you these supplements were just trying to steal your money”—mom, dad, sister. They were all pitching in.
Dane Johnson 09:32
I was a kid. I was broke. I had no money, but I'm looking at: “He ate what for 90 days and he got better? Yeah, right!” Only 1% of the world can do this. I was addicted to 2% dairy milk. I'm from Virginia. I'm a good old boy. I was addicted to Chipotle, Chinese food, and Papa John's pizza. I worked at a pizza joint from 14 to 18 years old. The victim mentality is something you don't recognize yet, and you haven't decided to take responsibility for your health. This podcast, these communities, these doctors—they are consultants. They are not magic pills. They are not the answer. They are part of training you to become your own answer. You will never succeed until you are the answer. If the answer is outside of yourself, you will always live in fear, and you will never feel safe in your body.
Dane Johnson 10:19
There's a mental and spiritual shift that must happen. I don't care if you have the perfect diet and the perfect supplements, [or] that they find the parasites, they find the mold, they find the virus. If you don't make that shift to create the answer within to train your spirit, I believe that eventually it will come back and be defeating, and it will then still be traumatizing, and you'll live in fear, which is constantly keeping your system in a sympathetic nervous state and affecting your vagal nerve. It's affecting the energy in your body. It's affecting hormone development. It's affecting digestion. All of that.
Dane Johnson 10:53
And when we look at things like EFT, EMDR, and German New Medicine, we realize that we have to shift the signal in the body, which will then shift the cellular connection. It'll shift the hormones. It'll shift the microbiome. It'll help shift the amount of enzymes that are physically being made in your stomach, your mouth, your ability to chew, your breathing, and the amount of oxygen and super saturation you're getting into your cells, eliminating hypoxia. These things matter. Energy has a massive physical response. We know it. We can prove it. You've got to learn to tap into it.
Dane Johnson 11:25
So how do you take the woo-woo, the energy, and then make sense of it into a physical shift in your body? That's what I did. That was the first thing that changed my life. Healing starts in the mind. It's not your fault, but it is your responsibility. Then you have to learn how to dance with daily energy. It's a dance. You've got to look at energy like a significant other. If your mom, dad, brother, sister, or significant other is saying things that are igniting you to be stressed, number one, can you interpret it differently? Number two, can you give them positive energy so that their negative energy goes down?
Dane Johnson 11:58
For instance, if my mom called me back when I was chronically sick mentally and said, “How are you doing?” I'd say, “I still got blood in the stool.” When I healed myself mentally, I could then come to her and say: “You know what, mom? My blood's 30% down. Hallelujah. I'm already healed, baby. Let's go! Let's go! I'm already healed—30% down! If I get it to 30%, I'll get it to 50%. I already know I can. I already did 30%!” Now my mom's energy has changed. Now she's excited. Now she's clapping instead of: “Oh God, the blood is still there. How's your iron? How's your hemoglobin? Are your heart palpitations going up? What's your weight at? Do you need to go to the ER? Do you need me to fly out there?” So do you see? There's a big shift. You need people to clap for you. You need people to be excited. You need to find a reason to heal.
Dane Johnson 12:42
The second thing on how you understand energy to the physical is you have to journal daily. It was the biggest thing that I did in the beginning that helped me get results. I don't know what the perfect diet is, but I can journal and gain intuition on how I'm responding to this food because I know exactly what I ate seven days ago. Do you?
Dr. Jill 13:02
I just want to comment really quick because that's so critical. And I've never heard anyone say that. So often my job as a clinician is to help interpret, but I can only interpret if the patient makes that connection. Typically, on the first visit, the most important thing I can do is help them discover some connection—whether it's a new supplement, a change in diet, a change in lifestyle, prayer, meditation, or journaling. I usually think in my mind that it's one thing where there's a shift and they start to connect their body's signals with what's good and bad for them and then they start to discover because, in time, they'll tell me what their body needs. If I just listen, I can help guide them and reveal it, or they might already know.
Dr. Jill 13:43
But I love that you're talking about that because at the core of everything I do is getting that patient in touch with the signals that their body… Their body already knows how to heal. Your body already knew how to heal; you just had to tap into the innate wisdom. So keep going. But that journaling—I've never heard anyone say that. And it's so important.
Dane Johnson 14:01
It was. And the crazy thing is, once I healed my mind, the answers became obvious. Four years of chronic sickness getting worse and worse. I tried every medication. I was told I had to get surgery.
Dr. Jill 14:11
And tell us, where did the shift happen too? Sorry to interrupt you. Was it slow? Was it gradual? Was it that one day there was an epiphany?
Dane Johnson 14:17
Four years. Four years to shift. The moment I actually decided to heal, I started healing. You haven't decided yet because the answer is still outside of yourself. If I put a gun to your head and said, “You better heal,” something can shift inside of you. There are obvious answers you probably haven't chosen. I'm going to prove it to you right now. When I decided to heal, it became obvious to journal. A 10-year-old can create the idea. It's an obvious answer. How are you ever going to heal if you don't know what your symptoms were 7 days ago, 10 days ago, 20 days ago, or yesterday? You don't know what you ate, and you're not documenting how your body's reacting at different times of the day. If I said, “What do you think is causing this?” you're going to tell me stress. Okay, well, what stressful events have you noticed have been correlated?
Dr. Jill 15:01
If you repeat it a second or two, that's fine.
Dane Johnson 15:04
Okay. When you're considering journaling, first you have to understand the concept and the strategy of why. If you're ever going to truly heal, you want to become the answer. You don't want the answer to be outside of yourself. To truly heal is to be able to respond to adversity, not eradicate it. So when someone says they've cured themselves, that means they can respond to something bad happening. The reason why we believe gingivitis is cured is because we know if we brush our teeth and floss and stay away from processed foods, it'll stay away. But if we continue to invite those poor habits back into our life, gingivitis will probably “flare again.” When you look at journaling, journaling is doing three things that are divinely gifted to you to be able to keep yourself healthy and create what you want.
Dane Johnson 15:55
Number one is intuition. When you're journaling, you're sharpening your intuition over what's happening. So many ‘Aha!' moments are going to happen when you start journaling on your food because you start to play in, “What's different about this meal?” An example: When I was paleo and I went to a hibachi grill and had him cook it paleo, I didn't realize he cooked the whole thing in canola oil. That little choo-choo train they run—that's all canola oil, also known as rapeseed oil. Also known as one of the most inflammatory things you can put in your gut and will cause massive urgency, cramping, pain, diarrhea, and probably an increase in blood if your gut lining is injured. Right there, I became innately aware of how I was responding to food.
Dane Johnson 16:36
When I decided to heal, I started journaling that day. I walked in, and something snapped inside of me. I had just lost control of my bowel movements on a plane. I was out in Ohio shooting some stuff, and I was so tired. Cold sweats. I was losing my life: 25, 24, 26—I'm losing some of my best years in my 20s to this disease. And something snapped where I was no longer willing to be sick. And I stopped waiting for people to tell me what to do, and I took control. I took the bull by the horns, and I built the plan, and everything changed in that moment.
Dane Johnson 17:09
And you know you haven't done that yet. You know you haven't done that yet if you haven't done things that are obvious. When I thought about it, I said: “Where do I start? I don't know what to eat. None of these supplements work. I've tried vegan. I've tried fasting. I've tried pureed carrots. I've done all these things. Where do I start?” I said, “I can start by just documenting how I feel after every meal.”
Dane Johnson 17:30
And number two, “I can decide to only eat what I cook for 40 days.” Just [inaudible] 40 days and 40 nights, like the old Josh Hartnett movie. I needed a little humor in there. Forty days and forty nights. And I said, “I'm only going to eat what I cook for 40 days.” It's obvious. It's obvious when you decide to spiritually heal, when you decide, “I'm done!” Take the variables out that were most likely hurting you and not helping you, and only implement the variables that can't hurt and can only help. It can only help; it cannot hurt to make your own food. It can only help; it cannot hurt to do prayer and purpose. It can only help; it cannot hurt to go to bed at 9:00 o'clock every night on the dot and get the TV out of your room and get rid of the blue light. It can only help and not hurt to meditate and get that oxygen capacity up in your body and help regulate your nervous system. It was obvious.
Dane Johnson 18:19
There were so many things. When I was chronically sick mentally before, I was just reading and going: “Okay, what's the magic probiotic? Probiotics are supposed to work. They don't work. Oh, I'm going to take this one—Bio-K, VSL. I'm going to go to all these different ones, and that's going to work.” Nope. Quit that. Try something random over here. Quit that. Try something random over here. I was buying worms—hookworms—and ingesting hookworms. You know about hookworms, Dr. Jill.
Dr. Jill 18:42
I do. I totally know that.
Dane Johnson 18:45
You name it. I was scouring the internet 13–15 years ago.
Another thing is that I realized that when I journaled, I could combine variables and not get overwhelmed because I could dance. “Oh, look, I'm going to do this specific probiotic in the morning. I'm going to do this food that I'm feeling a little bit better with.” I noticed I did a little bit better with a little bit of banana as a monosaccharide. That's how I started learning about monosaccharides versus polysaccharides. When your body tells you something, you can then go to the research and then try to make sense of it. I call that food philosophy.
Dane Johnson 19:16
I actually built a diet by customizing all the famous diets to me. I had done David Klein's diet. I had interviewed him twice and got on the phone and asked him things back in 2011 and '12. Jordan Rubin's books were huge. I actually met Jordan Rubin just like two weeks ago. Me and him are going to work together. I'm really excited about that. And then I got to meet Dr. Susan Blum, who I really like. She was a functional doctor who had rheumatoid arthritis herself.
Dr. Jill 19:41
I know her well, yes.
Dane Johnson 19:43
You know Susan? Okay. I loved her books because it was like the first functionally trained doctor talking about autoimmune disease. Her books were like, “Oh, that's what a T cell reg is. That's cytokines and IL-6.” I was starting to learn about how autoimmune disease linked. Then Tony Robbins, his book Awaken the Giant Within—mental health. When you decide to heal, within a week, I was reading two to four hours a day. I was journaling every day. I only ate what I cooked. I did prayer and purpose morning and night. I used aroma therapies morning and night. I meditated 30 minutes to 60 minutes a day.
Dane Johnson 20:20
My number one values were not to make money anymore; it was to heal. So when I was sick, I was trying to keep my career alive, scratching to keep myself okay [so] that I could get on that plane, go to that booking, or meet that client. And all of a sudden it was like: “No one call me. I'm gone. I don't care. I don't need money right now. This is it.” All of that. It was obvious!
Dane Johnson 20:43
When the trauma went away, when the paranoia, when the fear of, “Who am I socially? How many zeros are in the bank account? Did I make enough money this month? What am I going to do with my life?” All of that fear. The pain of being chronically sick superseded that fear. until one day I woke up and said: “Healing isn't my number one priority, and anything that gets in the way of that will have to be put on the side for now.” That was the bottom line. And if I just mentioned those things and you haven't decided to do that, then you haven't really been focused because they're obvious.
Dr. Jill 21:14
Yes. It's so interesting because here in my clinic, all day long, I'm seeing patients like what you went through. I know that my job is to create trust first, which you mentioned, and to create a safe container for them to optimally heal. But I'm not doing the healing. I'm going to give everything in my power, mind, body, and spirit to that patient in front of me. I often say, “You can borrow my faith” in the beginning. “If you don't have enough, let me believe in you more than you believe in yourself, and let that belief carry you until you have enough of your own belief in yourself.” And I see that in your story.
Dr. Jill 21:51
The other thing I see in your story that I think is so profound—all the time I get asked: “What's your protocol for this?” “What's your protocol for that?” I say, “I don't have a protocol.” Yeah, there are patterns for sure, like SCD, diet principles, or different things, microbiome revision, dysbiosis. Of course, all those things play into this and every person I'm looking at. But the truth is, every single person that sits in front of me has the answers, like you said, within them if they just help me and watch for patterns. Together we look for patterns that make sense of getting them in that trajectory. So there is no protocol.
Dr. Jill 22:29
What it is is me helping them get in touch with their innate healing wisdom. Some people do better on a low-histamine diet. Some people do better on the SCD diet. Some people have horrible SIBO. Other people have horrible fungal overgrowth. Other people have Klebsiella. And some of them have mycoplasma and another 100 things I could talk about. You know this well. And every single person I've treated with Crohn's is different. If I were to give them a protocol, they lose out on the magic of what you described, which is: You learning your body so well that you become the owner's manual on your own body, right?
Dane Johnson 23:06
Absolutely. What you said is very important. And patterns is a way of saying: I'm going to teach you to dance. I'm going to teach you—I call it Shield. I'm going to help you understand—
Dr. Jill 23:16
Yes, talk about Shield. Dive into that as you're going. I want to hear what that acronym stands for.
Dane Johnson 23:20
And the biggest thing, guys, everyone listening right now, I don't want this just to be a marketing spiel. I want to give you so many ahas that you're going: “Holy crap! I need to share this. People need to listen to this. I'm going to listen to this twice.” That is more important to me than me continuing to push and push on this, that, and the other. I want to earn your trust and show you that we're doing this in integrity. If I'm the right person to work with and Jill's going to work with, I'm telling you either one of us is going to do our very best to help you out, and I'm going to do everything in my power. If Shield's right for you, let's rock and roll. Let's get massive results. But let's continue to dive into why and how and all of that.
Dane Johnson 23:51
I'll mention a few things on Shield. But a few things. When someone comes in, when someone says, “What's the perfect protocol? What's the perfect diet?” I've come up with ways of giving people exactly what they wanted without them knowing it. What they really want is that they don't want to be on a diet, and they want to heal. I created Food Philosophy. Food Philosophy is defined as the ability to look at any food at any given time and assess the risk for you personally. That's it. So I can eat whatever I want, whenever I want, however I want, but I can assess the risk of food. So I understand the specific carbohydrate diet strategies and ideas. I understand lectins. I understand paleo. I understand carnivore. I understand low FODMAP, GAPS. And I can look at those principles and make sense of them.
Dane Johnson 24:39
The biggest mistake we're making with diets is that the diet is outside of ourselves. We don't understand it. We're just saying, “This food is bad and this food is good,” when in fact, that's completely false. If you look at low FODMAP, they don't say this food is bad or good. They say too much of this food is bad or good. And then, if you look at most of the diets, most of them are going to say that when you have Crohn's and Colitis, polysaccharides are going to be hard. Carnivore, paleo, SCD. Okay. So we're seeing a trend with these famous diets. What the heck is a polysaccharide? It's a complex carbohydrate. It's multiple levels of these carbohydrates infused into one. It's like burning coal versus burning paper. Fruit is like burning paper. Grains are like burning coal. Grains and beans are like burning coal. They're hard on your body and you have poor digestion.
Dane Johnson 26:46
So what I'm doing is starting to show you the dance of how healing works and “What are the patterns we're looking for?” and then starting to break the limiting beliefs that we are given as a society that I have to be on a limited diet for the rest of my life. Let's break that by building food philosophy. I want you to be able to eat what you want.
Dane Johnson 25:42
But you need to be smart. Like driving a car, can you drive the speed limit? Can you put your seatbelt on? Are you going to swerve lanes? Are you going to drive fast in the rain? It's the same thing with food. If you're at a wedding, if you're at a party, if you're at a birthday, make sense of assessing it. I might have that cake if it's the middle of the summer, my stress is low, my gut's been good, and my bowel movements have looked great. But if it's the middle of winter, I just got the flu or I got COVID, I'm stressed out, we got a newborn baby, and there's only 10 hours of sunlight, I might say, “Not today.” That's an adult decision—to look at the moment—but you have to be trained on it.
Dane Johnson 26:14
If you're just listening to diets, you don't understand how diets work. So that's where, if I'm looking at you, I'm going: “What do you like to do? Do you like to eat meat?” If you do, we'll probably play around with AIP, paleo, carnivore. If you're a vegan, vegan could be harder because you have a lot more substances in plant defenses that could cause problems, but it can be done. I've helped get people symptom-free who are vegans or Indians plenty of times.
Dane Johnson 26:42
The first thing I want to do is I want to take these ideas and break this trauma. “You have to be on a limited diet for the rest of your life.” Is it a limited diet if you can eat a variety of organic food that's properly prepared? I'm talking beans, grains, salads, vegetables, fruits, meats, eggs, cow. And look at it and say, “Well, Dane, can I have milk?” I might not want you to have milk, but maybe raw kefir that's fermented to reduce the lactose might be a smarter move. And maybe we need to check you for food allergies to see how you respond. Maybe we first need to boost your digestion, fix your gut lining, get the diversity right, and eliminate candida and parasites that are probably exasperating the sensitivity—not allergy—to it. So do you see what I just did? I just used a shield to make sense of a strategy so I can, instead of just saying: “This is bad. That's it. That's my life. Call me Bubble Boy.”
Dr. Jill 27:32
That black-and-white thinking actually creates more trauma, so I love that you're saying that because the same thing. Years ago, we did the IgG food sensitivity tests. People with Crohn's colitis, IBS, or any sort of gut dysbiosis light up like a Christmas tree. We would induce more trauma by [saying]: “Oh, you can have these four foods. These are the safe foods.” That's horrible trauma. I am such a big advocate, like you, of saying: “Okay, this tells us there's an issue with the lining of your gut.”
Dr. Jill 28:00
Like you said too, let's get you in touch with your body so that when you drink milk and you feel horrible, you're like, “Is it really worth it?” Probably not. But you get to decide. I'm not going to tell you. You get to get in touch with what happens. And that's where you're journaling. And your connection—I just love this. And even functional MDs in my field do not understand this.
Dane Johnson 28:19
Because it's only looking at science. You're taking the emotion out of it. There's a difference between a practitioner and a coach. If someone's out there for the world's best coach, I'm fighting for that. Best practitioner, someone else can take that. I'm a coach. I help you look at things, make them simple in your head, and attack them so you're no longer in fear. And I help to simplify what's happening. That's what I have to do. I have to take the fear and the trauma and simplify it so you go: “Oh, I never thought of it that way. Oh, that seems doable.” When I was told I had to be on these diets, I walked out of the room. I said, “There's no way!” I was like: “How long do I have to be on this diet? Forever? I'm done. Check! Check!” So I'm trying to look at someone who didn't have a natural medicine background, was just a kid, grew up on a sad American diet, and start. This is how I wish someone had come at me with it.
Dane Johnson 29:10
First of all, being on a diet for the rest of your life is a sacrifice. Being on a nutrition plan that helps your gut heal temporarily is an investment. I want you to eliminate the sacrificial energy, and I want you to instill investment energy. And I'm going to give you another metaphor that's going to help nail this out. If you hurt your knee and then you go and do jump rope a week after hurting your knee, the knee is going to get worse. If you wait three months and do the physical therapy before doing jump rope, before going on a jog on concrete, you might be fine with that run or that jump rope, and it might further the healing. Things like fiber and things like food diversity are like physical therapy: It's only good if your body's ready for it and you know what you're doing. If you don't, you're going to hurt yourself, and it's going to cause more trauma, and you're going to think, “I can never eat this again.”
Dane Johnson 29:55
I couldn't have a sip of water without running to the bathroom—20 bloody bowel movements a day. I have a salad four or five days a week now. I can eat beans, grains, raw foods, fruits, apple with skin—any of it. If I wanted to—I'll be okay, it's not good for me—I could go handle a salad with two pizzas and chug two beers and go run six miles straight and not have to use the bathroom. And I'm going to tell you exactly how I did that. It's not because it's not bad for me. It is bad for me. If I keep it up, it will cause an inflammatory response. But my shield, my body, can handle it.
Dane Johnson 30:25
And this is the next step that I want to give you. You were told that there was no cure, there were no root issues for Crohn's and colitis, and the way that was communicated to you was just traumatic, and it was a complete lie. Here's why: If you have IBS or IBD, I can almost guarantee that you have poor digestion. Digestion is a part of anatomy. It's not a root cause ghost hiding from you, kicking your butt.
Dane Johnson 30:50
If you have IBS or IBD, there's a good chance you have poor stomach acid. You have a backed-up liver. You're not creating bile production. Your pancreatic enzymes are probably low too, also connected to the nervous system issues and the stress. You most likely have H. pylori causing an inhibition of stomach acid. That might also be leading to small intestine bacterial overgrowth. Small intestine bacterial overgrowth is not even a diagnosis; it's a state of anatomy. It's just a state. I have too much of this bacteria growing out of whack.
Dane Johnson 31:25
And if you have H. pylori and SIBO, you're much more likely to have an overgrowth of Candida albicans. Candida is naturally occurring in the body. When we go on antibiotics—which, how many of us were put on a round of antibiotics at one point? almost everyone listening, I'm guessing—that causes a disturbance in the microbiome that causes the Candida to become overgrown. The Candida will grow and interfuse itself through the epithelial cell lining, especially in the colon. You'll get oral thrush. You'll have hormonal issues. You'll have urgency and diarrhea. Your colon will go berserk. And it's co-infections.
Dane Johnson 32:00
The first thing that you have to understand is: How is the body's anatomy? That cannot be argued by doctors. When doctors say there is no cure, just say: “Well, doc, let's just talk about anatomy. What do you think the state of my gut lining is? What do you think the state of my digestion is? What do you think the state of my microbiome is?” We all agree that those things exist, and the quality of those is completely and directly correlated to my symptoms.
Dane Johnson 32:24
And no one told me. When I was traumatized—going to Mayo Clinic, all this—no one told me I had low stomach acid. When I finally checked in a non-invasive stool analysis, no one told me I had massive amounts of H. pylori—e to the sixth. Tons! H. pylori is a bacteria that can live in biofilms. When your stomach acid goes low, it can come out from the gut lining and live in the gut. That can continue to cause low stomach acid and more ulcerations and inflammation in the upper GI. It's linked with GERD. It's linked with bloating, gas, cramping, headaches, fatigue—you name it.
Dane Johnson 32:58
And when your digestion goes, you're going to be more likely to get parasites because you cannot break the parasites down in the stomach acid. Low stomach acid is going to allow parasite eggs in raw fish, raw foods, and pork to be able to get through the stomach and start growing in the intestines. The same thing with dysbiosis. If you can't properly break down those sugars, those fats, and those proteins, they're going to putrify downstream in the small intestines and the large intestines because they were properly broken down, and you're going to get more food sensitivity. You're going to get more inflammation. You're going to get more leaky gut, which is a breaking of the epithelial cell lining. It's going to put more pressure to thin out your gut-associated lymphoid tissue, which is then going to make you more exasperated to have cytokine reactions because the dendritic cells and the T cells are going to be more susceptible to the foreign things in the gut because of the lack of a gut lining. So you're more likely to get T cell activation, like TNF-α, interleukin 1, and interleukin 6, that are going to react in that gut lining and be sensitive because it has undigested food because it has pathogens that never should have made there. And it's further creating a cesspool of toxins and dysbiotic microbiome that is further giving the immune system a reason to freak out.
Dane Johnson 34:13
I just gave you a downstream example of what might be happening that all could be linked with poor digestion because it's the anatomy. If one thing breaks in the body, everything breaks. If you have a broken toe, go try to run. That one toe will affect the entire movement. Things cannot be separated. We have doctors who only see the GI, only see the mind, only see the liver, and [yet] everything is synergistic. So I want to start giving you that ‘Aha!' moment, that excitement, that “What if I just started thinking about the anatomy of the body?” That can't be argued. It's like: “Oh, this is the cure. This is the root cause.” That is flary language that pisses off your doctor. Just start talking: What can I do for digestion? What can I do for the gut lining? What can I do for the microbiome? And you'd be surprised what you can find in a noninvasive stool analysis, an organic acid urine analysis, or even a blood test—even a mold test, like a blood mold test—you can check on.
Dane Johnson 35:10
That is the basics. If you can just start thinking like that, it can feel closer to you. It can feel more possible. You can not have to worry about, “Oh, it's the virus.” “Oh, it's the parasite.” “Oh, it's the mold.” Those are all really good, but it can be overwhelming in your mind. So just start saying, “Dane, what can I do just to start getting my digestion up?”
Dr. Jill 35:30
I just want to frame what you said because you've just done the most wonderful lecture I think I've ever heard of the whole [inaudible]. Really, truly, that was very well done. And I want to just reiterate because everything you said was so important. And from a functional perspective, the testing does matter because you're going to look at roots. So you find a good practitioner, you find a good coach, you find a good place where you can get the stool, the organic acids, the blood tests to determine.
Dr. Jill 35:54
One other thing I want to mention that's so relative to all this dysbiosis in organisms: We know with Crohn's, especially, that there are a lot of people with a genetic predisposition. And this genetic predisposition causes an abnormally aggressive response to a normal microbiome. As you can imagine, as we have all of these pathogens going on in the Crohn's or colitis patient, those in particular… Say you take 100 people on the street. Maybe 20 or 10 of them get Crohn's or Colitis from this dysbiosis. Not everybody does. The innate immune response is more aggressive, and that's because you're dumping the toxic metabolites into the bloodstream through that leaky gut.
Dr. Jill 36:29
But the most important thing you said was upstream because every time I see dysbiosis, Candida, parasites, or H. pylori, my question is, “Are you breaking down food? Is there enough stomach acid? Do you have normal motility?” And once again, even many functional practitioners aren't thinking that way. They're like, “Oh, let's kill this.” Boom. But it'll just come back if you don't address the upstream metabolites and the things that are happening, like low stomach acid. And as you alluded to, and I want to be sure and mention, the number one cause of low stomach acid and low SIgA—which is your mucosal immunity—is stress. And that goes back to: How are we living in this life, in this body? Do we have control?
Dr. Jill 37:07
The acronym from Hans Selye for stress is NUTS: Novelty, unpredictability, threat to ego or threat to health, and sense of control. And you alluded to all those things in your own journey of turning things around because if we have no control, we're victims. What are we going to do? It's very, very traumatizing. But we say: “No, we have autonomy. We have agency. Let's figure this out.” That gives you back a sense of control, which decreases stress.
Dane Johnson 37:30
I love what you said. If I had heard that when I was starting out, it would have overwhelmed me, though. “I'm just a kid. I don't do this. This is not what I do for a living. You're a specialist. You're a genius at this stuff.” I think one thing is: Always look at how to simplify it. This is how I did it for me. At the end of the day, when I wake up, how often am I feeling good energies with how often am I feeling bad energies? Am I waking up constantly anxious, constantly worried, constantly in my head, freaking out? Or am I laughing? Obvious things. Am I laughing? Am I smiling? Am I giving love? Am I making someone else's day better?
Dane Johnson 38:11
When you decide to heal, it's already in your intuitive nature. You already know. Just wake up and say, “How am I feeling? And how do I walk to something that will change how I feel?” If you felt bad and you're feeling better 30 minutes into this podcast, that's an action you took to listen. That's now changing your perspective of reality and what you can and cannot do. So you are already healing in this moment. It's the same food. It's the same body. It's the same problem. But you are already shifting the energy, which is shifting the signal inside of you. That is important. Be aware of how I feel and don't become a victim of the feeling; become aware of it and then change it. I don't like how I feel. I'm leaving this conversation because it doesn't make me feel good. I'm going to go hug over there. I'm going to smile over there. I'm going to call over here, and I'm going to spread love because it makes me feel good, and that's all that matters.
Dane Johnson 39:00
You don't feel good enough. You're stuck in the books, freaking out. You're listening to podcasts, freaking out the whole time. You can be smart. You can be a brainiac all you want. If you are freaking out while doing it, the chance of you getting results is going to be a lot less, and you're going to keep abandoning your protocols because of the anxiety that it's not enough and you have to change, change, change. And you're going to change so many times that you're not even going to know what worked and what didn't. You're going to be in a pretzel, emotionally and spiritually. So, that's the difference. Being able to coach yourself, you have to understand what makes me balanced and feel good.
Dane Johnson 39:37
And all I did was I started taking action in ways that I could register, that I could be aware that I feel better after this experience than not. Reading a book, sunshine, gardening, meditation, aroma therapies, calling my mom, calling my best friend, talking about how good their day is. If they ask me what my problem is, I tell them what a solution is. I got to the point where if I told you a problem, I had to tell you a solution. If I didn't have a solution, I wouldn't even mention it. I don't speak anxiety into reality. I speak possibilities. Write that word down right now if you're listening—possibilities. Underline it twice, star it, and highlight it. That word is the word of karmic energy. It is the word of manifestation. It's the word of creation.
Dane Johnson 40:19
The three divine things God gave you that you may not be completely using yet that you need are the ability to create, the ability to be intuitive on what works and what doesn't for you and what you need, and the ability to manifest a new future. If you can't feel that future, it's not coming close to you yet. You have to be able to feel it. That's what breathwork can do. That's what calming your mind can do. That's what listening to this podcast can do. If you feel closer to your success after these 30 minutes, you're doing the right thing. If you feel farther apart, then you need to simplify what's going on in your mind, and you need to let go of things that are not serving you because you have too much going on.
Dane Johnson 40:53
What I'm telling you is just because I've been chronically sick. I spent all the money. And I really did it. And I've been sick more than 99.9% of the sick people I've met with IBD. I'm talking wheelchair, fighting for my life. The doctor told me I won't live through the night. My whole family is sleeping on the ground, watching me sick. My mom holding a steel pan under my butt so I can go to the bathroom 25 times a day, pooping my pants. One hundred and twenty pounds. I was unconscious for like five days. I was in the hospital for six weeks. I was housebound for a year, and it took me about three months to be able to walk again. I know pain, and I hope you're feeling all that. I told you, Dr. Jill, I was going to bring the heat. I'm talking to you right now through this microphone, through space-time continuum, to let you know that pain turns to purpose, and you have to take that and realize how you're feeling and become response-able for those energies, those feelings, and what you're going to do.
Dane Johnson 41:43
Some of us do need 15 supplements and all this stuff because we have so many problems. But a lot of times you need consistency, you need belief, you need a place to grow, you need community, and you need consistent action and then be able to mark that down and see it. That's all I did. I was housebound for a year. I journaled every single day. I looked at vegan. I looked at fruitarian. I looked at meat. I looked at this diet. I looked at supplements. I looked at liver support, probiotics, enemas, coffee enemas, and I just started practicing and documenting and practicing. I went back to school for natural medicine. I'd bring my ND professors into it. “What is this? What do you think?” I'd take them out to lunch. “What can I do? What's this? What's that?”
Dane Johnson 42:20
It wasn't easy. It was very hard. It's the hardest thing we can do in this world—to retake our health—but it is doable. So it is a hill. It's a big hill. It's going to be difficult, but are you still going to rise? You are now aware. Are you still going to rise up and take it? Once you do that, all the things like, “What do I need to take for my liver? How do I work on my liver? How do I work on my digestion?” will all come to fruition if you are committed to putting one foot in front of the other and getting the resources you need for success. And then you understand the three things I've got to do: I've got to create, I've got to manifest, and I've got to sharpen my intuition. Iron sharpens iron, so get around iron.
Dr. Jill 42:58
That is so, so, so good! I don't even want to interrupt you. I just want to let you go because this is so good.
Dane Johnson 43:03
Sorry. I know I can go.
Dr. Jill 43:05
No, it's fabulous! I love every word. I knew that there was a really important reason for you to come on. And already you've given us so much wisdom.
[There's] one thing I want to lay down here at the end that I think is so critical. People are out there, and they're suffering. They're suffering more than just IBD, although many of my clients, patients, and listeners have had Crohn's and colitis. But I think one of the things I've learned—and I can clearly hear it in your story—is the suffering. You almost died, and so did I. At those darkest, darkest moments, let's just speak to that person who right now has no hope. They're just like, “I've tried everything.” What you have just shared—and I know I can share the same—is that those are the points of transformation. And I look back, and my biggest sufferings—where I was looking at death in the face—are my greatest blessing. Can you just speak for a minute or so on that? What would you say to this person who's like, “I don't have hope, Dane, I'm sorry”?
Dane Johnson 44:06
Truth is a perspective. And right now you might not feel you have hope, but what you just told me is a feeling, not a truth. And that's a perspective. And maybe it doesn't feel like there's any more gas in the tank to try to lift yourself up into that inspiration, into that excitement. And I think the best advice I can give you is: Start with peace. Focus on what you're going to let go of more so than [what] you're going to control. The energy of control is so much harder than letting go. What do you have that if I told you if you lost that or had to go through what you're going through right now, you would say, “I'd rather just go through what I'm going through right now than lose that”?
Dane Johnson 44:51
I remember I was crying one time. My mom took me home, and I was like: “I don't want to do this anymore. I didn't want to live.” I was like, “I'm in so much pain.” I felt like I was pooping glass. I couldn't walk. I couldn't eat. My mom lost her job trying to take care of me. All my family was spending their money. I didn't want to do it anymore. But then, as that wave of intensity came over and passed, I realized that if I had to pick—and I told God that I could either lose my mom or go through this—I'm going through this. Any day! All my friends, I would rather go through this. I could still call my buddy. I was still there. I still had my tongue. I had my eyes. I had my experience. I had my mind. My grandpa had dementia. He didn't know who I was anymore.
Dane Johnson 45:36
Truth is not truth; it's a perspective. I have a lot of fire in me because it was so much pain that I rose like a phoenix out of the ashes. You have to decide that you're not done, and you're not going to let this overwhelm you. And then you have to let go of things that keep overwhelming you on a day-to-day basis, even if your symptoms aren't perfect. Can you find a reason to smile every day? Can you let go of things that keep overwhelming you? What's going on with the job, the family, the relationship? You've got to make peace. I was so angry with my father. I had to go call my dad at 24 and say, “I love you; I messed up in this way, [and] I want you in my life,” because I couldn't handle being at odds with him fighting for my life. I knew it. And that's where prayer came in.
Dane Johnson 46:21
If you know stress is a problem, why aren't you praying to God on your knees? I don't care who's watching. I'll get on my knees right now. I don't care. Do you see that fire? You've got to get that fire, and this will end up becoming your superpower. You know it. To heal yourself and to deal with something that is not so perfect, not so obvious that no one can do for you, is how you become a superhuman. Find whatever is going to ignite that fire, let go of what keeps overwhelming you, and just make it simple.
Dane Johnson 46:51
If you're that broken, start your day with meditation. Start with Deepak Chopra. Start with a book. Start with a walk. Start with sunshine. God gave us everything here to balance our souls. Take your shoes off, put your feet in the ground, put your hands in the dirt, look into the sun, breathe, and then start with gratitude. You've got to feel positive energies. If I just looked down and said, “Okay, how much anxiety did you feel today? How much pain did you feel today? How much worry did you feel today?” I bet right now 90% of it would be negative energies. But you are allowing that. I know you're sick. I know you're in pain. I know it doesn't feel good, but you can still hug, smile, laugh, be grateful, and choose. When that happens, the fog will clear. The fog will clear. And answers—the next step will be right in front of you.
Dane Johnson 47:45
I couldn't walk, but it was obvious at that point that I needed to journal. I was having 15 bloody bowel movements a day, but it was obvious I needed to meditate. It was obvious I only needed to eat what I cooked. It was obvious that I needed to listen to Bob Marley, “I want to love you,” as I was eating that food. It was obvious that I needed to take time, calm down my breath, and chew my actual food to swallow it whole. And I know that's not your perfect answer, but your answer is 1,000 steps away. Focus on step 1, and soon, if you are not overwhelmed and you are consistent, you will get to step 50, step 100, and step 500. It will change the rest of your life, and you will be of power to help anyone around you because of what you went through, and then it will become the best thing that ever happened to you.
Dr. Jill 48:25
Dane, that is beautiful! I knew that we'd have this great interview, and you have touched me deeply because it's so rare that people really get it. You're clearly living in your purpose, and the pain has driven your purpose and this way of blessing the world in such a great way. Thank you for using your story, your suffering, to change the lives of so many. I know people are dying to know where they can find you. Can you give us that information?
Dane Johnson 48:51
Yes. You guys, if you want to learn more about us, we do offer a complimentary 60-minute session with one of our IBD support specialists. Everyone in our team has IBD. For the people, by the people. Our doctors, our professors, our coaches—we all have this. We've all been in your shoes. We know what this is like. So whoever you're going to talk to, you're going to talk to someone who has this disease. Oh, what I would have done for that! What I would have done for that! That's really all I built here. I built what I needed 12 years ago.
Dane Johnson 49:19
And we want to operate out of trust and integrity. If I haven't earned that yet, don't reach out yet. Take your time. Research us. Look at other programs. Do everything out there. But I've tried to operate with the most integrity as possible. Everyone in our program, the Shield program, gets a private coach. We ship supplements internationally. We work with people in Hong Kong, India, the Netherlands, and all over Europe. We have a huge European community. We've worked with kids. We've worked pregnancy, post-surgery. People have been diagnosed for 45 years. We have more testimonies [about] reversing Crohn's/colitis than any clinic, hospital, or doctor on the planet, as far as I can see. That's an opinion, but I haven't seen anywhere close.
Dane Johnson 49:54
But that's it. I don't want this to be an infomercial. I want to earn your trust and earn your integrity and everything will work after that. If we can help you, we're going to do everything in our power to get massive results. We have 1,000+ members in our community who come and meet weekly on our trainings and talk, and everyone has their own custom answer. That's also really big, I would say. Build your custom answer. Get a little bit generic. Learn the generic and cherry-pick.
Dane Johnson 50:19
And I think what Dr. Jill is doing at her clinic and what she can do for you is massive. I can probably learn a thing or two. Me and her just met, but I get the feeling she's got massive integrity, massive trust. If you decide to put your faith in her, I think you're going to get massive results as well.
Dr. Jill 50:33
Thank you.
You guys can find CrohnsColitisLifestyle.com. If you're driving, don't worry; in the show notes, wherever you listen, you will find all of his links, bio, and information. We'll make sure that it is very easy for you to find more about Dane and his work.
Dr. Jill 50:50
Thank you, guys, for tuning into another episode. This has been one of my favorites, Dane. I'm really grateful for you sharing your heart, your integrity, and your knowledge, and I can't wait to see this reach many, many lives. Thanks again.
Dane Johnson 51:02
Thanks again.
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