The Making of the Movie Doctor/Patient with Aaron Carnahan and Daniel Grace. In this compelling podcast episode, listeners are treated to an insightful interview with the Producer and Director, Daniel, Grace, and Aaron Carnahan of the upcoming film chronicling the remarkable journey of Dr. Jill Carnahan. Delving into her battles with breast cancer, Crohn’s disease, and mold-related illness, the episode offers a glimpse into the resilience and determination of Dr. Jill, a pioneer in functional and integrative medicine. Through poignant patient testimonials woven into the narrative, the film explores the profound impact of her approach to healing. The interview with the filmmaking team unveils the transformative process behind the movie, shedding light on the challenges and revelations encountered while bringing Dr. Carnahan's story to life. From the depths of illness to the heights of empowerment, this episode captures the essence of Dr. Jill's journey and the profound lessons learned along the way.

1. The Intersection of Epigenetics and Consciousness: How our conscious and subconscious beliefs specifically influence gene expression.
2. Bridging Science and Spirituality: How the principles from quantum physics, biology, and spirituality intersect in ‘The Biology of Belief.’
3. Reprogramming the Subconscious Mind: Discuss paradigm shift in understanding human biology, emphasizing the powerful role of the mind in influencing genetic expression and overall health

Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD

Dr. Jill Carnahan is Your Functional Medicine Expert® dually board certified in Family Medicine for ten years and in Integrative Holistic Medicine since 2015. She is the Medical Director of Flatiron Functional Medicine, a widely sought-after practice with a broad range of clinical services including functional medical protocols, nutritional consultations, chiropractic therapy, naturopathic medicine, acupuncture, and massage therapy.

As a survivor of breast cancer, Crohn’s disease, and toxic mold illness she brings a unique perspective to treating patients in the midst of complex and chronic illness. Her clinic specializes in searching for the underlying triggers that contribute to illness through cutting-edge lab testing and tailoring the intervention to specific needs. 

A popular inspirational speaker and prolific writer, she shares her knowledge of hope, health, and healing live on stage and through newsletters, articles, books, and social media posts! People relate to Dr. Jill’s science-backed opinions delivered with authenticity, love and humor. She is known for inspiring her audience to thrive even in the midst of difficulties.

Featured in Shape Magazine, Parade, Forbes, MindBodyGreen, First for Women, Townsend Newsletter, and The Huffington Post as well as seen on NBC News and Health segments with Joan Lunden, Dr. Jill is a media must-have. Her YouTube channel and podcast features live interviews with the healthcare world’s most respected names. 

The Video

The Transcript

Resiliency Radio with Dr. Jill: Special Edition #1 The Making of the Movie Doctor/Patient

Dr. Jill  00:00
Welcome to Resiliency Radio, your go-to podcast for cutting-edge insights in functional and integrative medicine. I'm your host, Dr. Jill, and with each episode, we delve into the heart of healing and personal transformation. Join us as we connect with renowned experts, thought leaders, and innovators in the world of functional medicine.

Dr. Jill  00:18

Today's episode is special. You've heard me interview amazing, insightful medical leaders. Today we're going to get really deep and personal. I don't know if you guys have heard yet, but my documentary—the one I've been working on for years now, Doctor/Patient, which parallels my journey of overcoming illness and that of several of my patients—is out! It's out! You can watch it now. You can share it with friends at DoctorPatientMovie.com.

Dr. Jill  00:45

Before we dive in and I introduce our guests, let's take a look at the trailer:

00:51

Dr. Jill: When I really knew something was wrong was when I started having trouble walking up the stairs. I was supposed to be grateful and happy and healing and well and thriving, but I did not feel that way. I was so sick. Like always, I wanted to find an answer, and I had to figure it out. And I had to figure it out to save my own life. So I dove in.

01:21

James Maskell: Jill is the leading voice in biotoxin illness and chronic conditions that are driven by toxicity.

01:25
Bree Argetsinger: Oh my gosh, you're dealing with mold? You have to work with Dr. Jill Carnahan. 

01:30

Patient 1: Dr. Jill is the first person that actually began to shed some light on the problem.

01:35
Dr. Jill: What I do is listen to the patient, and we together talk about what else is possible. 

01:43

Patient 2: I don't know why I'm crying.

01:44
Patient 3: She saved my life.

01:53
Dr. Jill: The deepest lessons and most profound insights come in the suffering, come in the dark moments. Self-compassion is the healing transition that shifts something inside of us. It's actually the thing that we need most in order to heal. 

Narrator: Doctor/Patient—available now at DoctorPatientMovie.com.

Dr. Jill  02:26
Oh my goodness, you guys, I'm getting goosebumps with the fact that I've waited for so long to share this with you. Gosh, if you can't tell, there's a lot of deep emotion here. Today, we're going to dive in with the producer and the director—Daniel Grace and Aaron Carnahan—of Embark Features. And I am so excited to share the podcast with them. Today, we're going to dive into the making of the movie. But really, at the core, I want to share with you why. You don't really care about the process or any of that unless you know a person's why. And today, you're going to hear Dr. Jill's why: Why did we make this documentary? And you're going to hear the heart of an amazing producer and director, Aaron and Daniel. And I want to share just a bit with them.

Dr. Jill  03:15

They are the most powerful team. One of their missions in life is to make films that move people to move people. I've always loved this tagline because it really is true about them. Today I hope to feature them and their hearts for making movies that move people to move people. So welcome, Daniel and Aaron! Gosh, I could say so much more, but maybe you can each just say a quick hello, and we'll jump right into the discussion. 

Aaron Carnahan  03:47

Absolutely. First of all, I got teared up watching the trailer again. It was so cool. I've seen it a thousand times, and every time it hits me like this. I also thought about your intro, and I think about all of the people because I follow your podcast, and it's like, “What in the hell are Daniel and I doing on here?” because there are all of these brilliant minds. And they're amazing people with amazing insights. The funny thing is that all of these people that you interview are just that: They're people who are moving people to move people. They're moving people to action and moving people to a better life—a life of hope and health. So it just blows my mind that we're actually on your podcast, talking about the movie. And I'm just excited to be here today. I can't wait to see. I have no idea what's going to happen today, so I'm pretty excited about it.

Daniel Grace  04:41
Yes, me either. I was going to say that the great and difficult thing about what we do as documentarians is that you need a good subject. You need the person there. So thanks for being a good subject.

Dr. Jill  04:53
Aw, thank you. And Daniel, you'll find, is so humble. So is Aaron. Daniel is the art behind the beauty of this film. As you guys watch this and get to experience it, what you're going to see is… You know my colleagues and a lot of docuseries out there and you're seeing interviews that are [full of] incredible information. 

Dr. Jill  05:12

And I'd love to have your comments, Daniel and Aaron, as far as the making of the film. From the outsider's [perspective]—I'm not the documentarian, I'm just the subject—what you'll see in this documentary is beautiful filming, beautiful music, and things that truly allow our spirits to be moved. Because a story is just a story, and until you tell the story… And, Daniel, I want to feature you. Tell me a little bit about storytelling, because that's one of your gifts. How did you see this and how did it come together from a storyteller's point of view?

Daniel Grace  05:43
Oh, goodness, I don't know. I think your personal story is so inspiring that it was just about finding a way to get that on film. Sometimes it's hard with stories like this when they've already happened. It's hard to tell a story that's already happened in film, in this documentary way. So that was one of the challenges. But as a documentarian, as a storyteller of truth, you need to have a true, good story. What you went through, how you transformed that, and what molded you into the person and doctor you are today—that's the foundation of the whole film. So for me, it's just about trying to honor that and trying to tell that story the best way that I can. 

Dr. Jill  06:41
Amazing. Aaron, any comments on the process?

Aaron Carnahan  06:44
Well, I think it's funny because you do mention Daniel. He's so humble. I'm watching the trailer, and I'm reminded that there are so many beautiful shots in this film. They're filmed beautifully. And that's with intention.

Aaron Carnahan  06:59

Especially in the medical world, there are a lot of films that sacrifice the beauty and the art for the information. And we knew way early in this process that we did not want to sacrifice the beauty and the art—that we wanted to see that. And Daniel was the perfect person to do that. He's a great cinematographer as well as a great director. So that was a huge thing for us. 

Aaron Carnahan  07:23

And even just watching the trailer, you can see that inside of it. That little bit of artistry is what really helps to get the story across. So I just love that he did that. That was the fine line. We're trying to figure out: How in the world do we tell this story that already happened? And boy, that was a journey in its own right. It took some time to figure out how to make that happen.

Dr. Jill  07:52
It was, wasn't it? And I don't know; maybe I'll start from the beginning, [from] my perspective, and then I'd love you guys to weigh in because it really is such a crazy, amazing journey. I remember in the middle of the pandemic in 2021—literally January 1st—that I was sitting in my chair meditating and praying, and this divine thought came. I was working on writing the book. And as the pandemic hit, we saw people go to screens more than ever before. All of a sudden, everybody I knew was doing Netflix binges and things. Like never before, I was like: “Do people even read anymore?” I had this thought like: “Gosh, I want to share this information about environmental toxicity with the world. Maybe we should be on screens.” 

Dr. Jill  08:32

Now, I want to say this very clearly: I am not a documentary maker. I have no clue what I'm doing. All I had was an idea. And I think, Aaron, I called you right around that same time and said, “What if we did something?” And you—in just a moment, I'll let you tell your perspective—had been thinking about doing a docuseries. This was part of your idea too. And it was a parallel idea we had. And we started literally in January 2021 talking [about]: What if… What else is possible? What is possible with this? And as we talked, I think we started to see this alignment and then started to believe that something like that could actually happen. Aaron, do you remember that time?

Aaron Carnahan  09:08
Yes, I do. I remember I was on a walk and it was really cold out, and we started talking about it. We were on the phone. Everything just started clicking, like: “Yes, of course! Of course!” And then, of course, my filmmaker mind was like: “Oh, boy, where are we going to find the funds for this?” And you were like, “Oh, if it's supposed to be, it'll just happen.” You were like, “It'll be magic.” I was like, “Okay.” Sure enough, you were right about that as well. But yes, I remember that time. 

Aaron Carnahan  09:35

And it was so clear to me. Of course, you and I have known one another for so long. I've always felt that your story was really important, needed to be told, and should be told. The funny thing is, early on, if you remember, it was all about environmental toxicity, your patients, and all of that stuff. So the original thought and concept were more wrapped around the functional medicine doctor part, functional medicine healing, and that type of stuff. 

Aaron Carnahan  10:08

After we started the filmmaking process and started filming, I think it was about halfway through that we were like: “This is Jill's story.” We knew that Jill's story was going to be a part of it, but it went from being the B part of it to the A part of it. And that was a huge transition for us as filmmakers, when we said: No, it's not the B storyline, it's the main storyline. It's Jill's story. We can still get the point across with functional medicine, but we have to tell it through this amazing story of Dr. Jill's story. 

Aaron Carnahan  10:44

I think that's pretty cool too, because you weren't like: “Hey, I want to make a story about my life.” It wasn't like that. It was like: I want to help more people, and we can help more people if we're on screens because people are watching screens. I can only see a couple of hundred patients, 1,000 patients, or whatever it is. I want to reach more people with this message of hope and healing. 

Aaron Carnahan  11:08

So that's kind of funny how that worked out. And I love that. Things never end up the way they were originally planned. It doesn't seem so.

Dr. Jill  11:16
I was going to say that because I did not at all want to be the main feature or to tell my story in the way that it ended up. It was much more like: Let's talk about the power of functional medicine, environmental toxic load like mold, toxic chemicals, and all the stuff that we deal with every day. And I think it was in that process of looking through, creating a script, creating a plan that we all together… 

Dr. Jill  11:42

And then I'd love to hear where Dan came in here, because I know, Aaron, that you and Daniel have worked together before. Maybe talk a little bit about how that came to be. But I want to just echo the fact that this dramatically shifted. And then we'll talk in a few minutes. But as we got deeper and deeper, you guys kept asking me to go more and more and more vulnerable. And at the end, we had this thing that we never even intended in the beginning that was very deep, very emotional, and scary for me to go out there. But let's go back to Daniel and Aaron.

Aaron Carnahan  12:13
Can we stay there real quick?—because I think that's a huge point, Jill. Yes, it was different. I'm sorry, but that's such a big moment! You were thinking the film was one thing, and then Daniel and I were coming to you and saying: No, it's more your story, which means you have to be extremely vulnerable and share things that might be very uncomfortable. 

Aaron Carnahan  12:38

And to your credit, in that time, you got it, you saw it, and you said okay. And then, more importantly, you did it; you were extremely vulnerable. Huge credit to you, because that isn't what we were setting out to do. It's not the story we were setting out to make. But you were willing to do it. And I think it made the film so much better—the moment you said that this is my whole self. 

Dr. Jill  13:05
I remember that well. Daniel, I'd love for you to weigh in here because you, as the director, are seeing this before your eyes. Think about how many scenes, guys, and how many days of filming we did. We all know the cutting room floor—what ended up there. And those first days were me sitting there teaching all about environmental toxicity and functional medicine. We have hours and hours and hours of footage of me teaching and all of this stuff to make a film. Then, all of a sudden, it shifted. Daniel, do you remember that shift and when you started to see a different vision? Do you want to talk a little bit about that?

Daniel Grace  13:36
Yes. I was going to say that I'll take some of the blame for it shifting in a lot of ways. I have a strong feeling with these kinds of projects—that the project tells you what it wants to be. If you try to push a rope up a hill, it's just not going to happen. So it felt like that when we were doing this stuff. In the early shoots, it felt like we were trying to make it be something it didn't want to be. 

Daniel Grace  14:16

I remember talking to Aaron about it behind the scenes and some of that stuff, like: “I wonder if we can get more towards an authentic story. I wonder if we can get more in this way.” It took a little bit of doing, but when we finally came to you, I don't remember there being much pushback from you. But I do remember coming to you and saying: “We think this is going to be about you—not about your patience and not about your medicine per se, but about you and your life. And we get all of those things through you.” I don't remember there being much pushback, which is a testament to who you are, because that's terrifying for most people.

Dr. Jill  15:01
I do remember. You guys came real clear, and you kept saying, “Get out of teacher mode.” Teacher mode is like analytical mode, in my head. I can be dissociated from pain and suffering, and I can talk about it. But I was talking about it almost in the third person. And you guys saw that and were like, “No, we want you to actually go to the pain and the suffering.” 

Dr. Jill  15:23

And I think this is the important message, and it's important for me to say this on the podcast: Pain and suffering are pain and suffering until you make meaning and purpose out of them. Part of the reason why I was so willing to go there is that I know from the depths of my soul that when I take the experiences I've had that have been so difficult and painful and I start to teach through them and make meaning and purpose out of them and help other people who are going through the same thing, all of a sudden, it gives massive meaning and purpose to things that are so difficult. That allows people who are watching that to say: “Oh, maybe my pain and my suffering can also have transformational power, meaning, and purpose. Maybe I can get through this too.” 

Dr. Jill  16:11

What I wanted to do there was, it's hard, but go from the person who's like on the hill saying “I have overcome, I'm on the top, and everything's great” to be saying: 1) I've gone through it; you're not alone, 2) I'm still going through it; you're not alone, and 3) while you're in that, if you start to search for the teacher in that suffering—the meaning, the purpose—it transforms it. 

Dr. Jill  16:38

It doesn't take away the pain. So I never want to say that I'm minimizing pain and suffering because it's real and it sucks. But when we can shift our perspective and, in the midst of the most difficult dark times of our lives, know that those are the times when we feel the Divine closest to us, when we feel the depth of the power of life… It's like the word bittersweet. I love that word because it's the essence of the passing of time, and it's the essence of the most pain and the most beauty all wrapped up in one. And if that piece can come out of this film… But it could only come out of that if I went from teacher to survivor person, right?

Daniel Grace  17:15
Yes. And you do that when you're with your patients. That's what I saw when we were in the clinic with you. That's what you're doing for your patients—giving them [words of encouragement]: I've been there. I know what you're going through. There is a way out, and there is also a way through. 

Daniel Grace  17:36

Without that, I don't know that we could have gotten there—without that example from you in clinic with your patients of being that. That was when I saw the real Jill. The real Dr. Jill was in that room there, not the teacher on the stage. There's certainly a place for that. But in this, man, it connects so much better when you see someone on equal terms and you can talk to them through experience and not just with knowledge.

Aaron Carnahan  18:11
Also, the really powerful thing about that, that Daniel and I got to see, is each one of the patients that we interviewed throughout this process. You are that—you're open, you're transparent, and you see how the pain you've endured can be for good. It's that bittersweet thing. Every single one of them has picked up your mantle on that. We capture it mainly, I believe, with Jamie in the film. When you're looking at her, you're looking at her in the eyes and you're saying: “This is going to be for good. You wait. This is going to be for good!” So it's not just that you're doing that and you're doing that in this film, but you're doing that for the patients. 

Aaron Carnahan  19:00

And Daniel's right, we're watching that, and we're like—[exhales]. You teach thousands of doctors a year different things within functional medicine. But there's a part of me that's like, “Please, doctors, watch this!” because this is the true miracle that you do. You help people to see: Yes, you're in this pain, and I'm going to try to get you out of it. But understand and embrace it right now in this moment, and know that this is going to make you stronger. And this is for a greater purpose than yourself. 

Aaron Carnahan  19:38

We were blown away every single time we saw that. And even if you weren't in the room with them, they're echoing that sentiment themselves now, which is just mind-blowing! It's so beautiful. It's so beautiful. That's a different level of medicine right there.

Dr. Jill  19:54
I love that. And one of the interesting things, Aaron, that you just said that's so powerful is one of my very favorite parts of the movie. And for those of you who are going to watch this, you'll see it. My writing coach also happens to be a professional climber, so we show a scene where I'm climbing with him. And it's funny because, [as] you guys will see in the scene, there was no script. This was just chatting and filming in real life; none of this was pre-planned and programmed. I look back, and it's so powerful. It was accidental, or maybe divine. But the scene—I'm climbing, and I get to the spot where it's really, really hard. I'm on camera, so I have to figure it out. 

Dr. Jill  20:32

I call down to Topher, who's holding my ropes, and I'm like: “Topher, this is what you're talking about. This is so hard.” He's like: “No, Jill. Just next step, next step. Pretend like you're a kid on a jungle gym.” And all of a sudden, my heart lights up. I'm like, “Okay, I can do that.” I get past that hard spot. I get to the top. I come back down. I'm sitting with Topher and saying: “You know, Topher, that was so powerful to have you believing that I could do something that I wasn't sure I could do. I see this.” And then he's like: “Jill, you do that in the clinic every day. You're the doctor who believes that the patient can accomplish something.” And it's actually borrowing the belief of someone else who believes in you more than you believe in yourself. 

Dr. Jill  21:13

It's so powerful! I watch it, and I'm like, “Oh my gosh!” because Topher, this wise, wise person is saying this. He's like, “Jill, you do that in clinic.” And in real-time, I didn't know we were saying anything profound, but as I'm watching it, it's one of my favorite parts of the documentary because I'm like, “That's right.” 

Dr. Jill  21:29

All of us need someone—we call it the wind beneath our wings or someone who really believes in us. When a patient is suffering and going through something and they don't know the outcome, I, or any doctor, can be that person who says: “No, I believe in you.” They can actually borrow our belief, and that can carry them through.

Aaron Carnahan  21:48
I love that. I love that. And as we're talking about that, the people involved in this film, from all the people who were on camera, who believed in us and trusted us enough to share very intimate parts of their lives with their health journey, I want to just take this moment to say: “Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!” Gosh, all of them. Ryan, Burke, and Jamie—just everyone! 

Aaron Carnahan  22:19

And there are people that we spoke to who never got on camera. There are people that we spoke to on camera and maybe didn't make it in the film. Gosh, thank you so much for trusting us. It's only because you trusted us that we were able to make this film and create this. So thank you. 

Aaron Carnahan  22:40

And all of the people who worked behind the scenes—Dan and I were blown away, like: “These people worked on some great films, and here they're working on our film and they're enjoying it!” They fed into Daniel and me so much. 

Aaron Carnahan  22:55

Number one, Jill, you had a crazy amount of trust in Daniel and me. Dan and I would have conversations about it like: It's important that we are honoring that above all else. It was just so huge. So, thank you. Thank you to everybody on the film who worked on this. Just in case I forget to say it later in this podcast: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. A lot of people were very brave throughout this process of opening up.

Dr. Jill  23:31
Yes. I couldn't agree more. And even to my staff and all the people who worked so hard in my office to make that happen. 

Dr. Jill  23:38

I remember a car ride. We did some filming in Vail. I remember us all driving in a car to Vail. There was something profound that happened in that car ride that really shifted and helped us to frame. I think it was in the early part of filming. And there was an acronym: BLT. I don't know, Dan or Aaron, do you want to talk just a little bit about: How did that happen in the car ride to Vail? And how did it transform our process of looking at what we wanted to accomplish with this film? 

Aaron Carnahan  24:06

Go ahead, Daniel.

Daniel Grace  24:07
Yes. I remember a conversation that Aaron and I had at a pizza place outside of Boulder talking about that very same thing. It was the moment where it crystallized into: What is the film about? What is the message of the film? Not that we were necessarily trying to force a message on it, but we were trying to find out: What did it want to be? What was the message? It echoes your message, Jill, just as a physician and as a person, and that's: Believe in yourself, love yourself, and trust yourself. And that was the BLT. 

Daniel Grace  24:57

I don't even know if we said it there at the pizza place or if it was on that car ride where we all came up with that term. But then that became the guiding light: If it doesn't fit into that mold, it doesn't belong in the film. I think that really helped us shape what the film became after that point. I think that was pretty late in the process. I think it was the second time we were there to film, so it would have been the fall of '21, maybe. 

Dr. Jill  25:32

Yes, I think you're right. 

Daniel Grace  25:32

It was pretty late in the filming process. It might have even been '22. We were there in the spring of '22. I don't know. We filmed for so long.

Aaron Carnahan  25:43
Yes. I think the powerful part of that is, first of all, that it gave us a North Star. It gave us a guiding thing that we were running toward, which also meant that we had to ditch a lot of things that we had already filmed and planned. So thank goodness our partner who helped us to get this film produced, our executive producer—and I think he was even part of the process when we were talking to Phil and were like, “What about this?”—he loved it. He saw it immediately. So just a big thank you to him for that. That was huge that he saw the importance of the shift. But it just gave Dan and me crystal clarity through every decision, not only from the filming perspective, [but] all the way through the editing perspective—all the way through. 

Aaron Carnahan  26:36

And it still has affected me. I have these little reminders that come up on my phone that are little motivational things for myself. And every day, BLT comes up on my phone. It's stuck with me in my own personal life a couple of years later. So that's pretty cool too. 

Aaron Carnahan  26:54

But it was—it was a game-changing moment. And I think it was a game-changing moment for you too, Jill, because you knew what we were headed toward as well. It was only after that that we went from telling your story to… You really went deep into your story. And that meant saying the scary things out loud that you've never said out loud. Would you agree with that?

Dr. Jill  27:24
I would totally agree. I will never forget that car ride. I was sitting up front in the passenger seat. We were talking, and we were all in the car. I think you guys had already had that conversation and talked about: “What do we think this looks like? Let's check in with Jill.” Dan, I remember you saying: “Jill, what do you really, really, really want to get across here?” And of course, we started months and months prior. Environmental toxicity—all of that's true. But what I realized in my own healing journey, especially with mold toxicity, Crohn's, cancer, and then divorce, [was that] some of the most powerful transformations in my own journey were… I had lived up in my head in my analytical mind for most of my life. I had to get in touch with my body, my soul, and my physical self in order to heal. 

Dr. Jill  28:13

Say you're having a stomach ache. For years, I would ignore that stomach ache. I'd be like, “Oh, I'm fine.” That's the way we dissociate from our pain. But in order to heal, we have to go back to that stomach ache and say: Okay, stomach ache, what are you trying to tell me? And this may sound funny, but the truth is, until we get in touch with those, our bodies are always giving us signals of health and wellness or illness or: This is a great relationship; this is not a good relationship; this is a good work environment; this is not a good work environment. And often, our illness comes from making choices that don't align with our highest self. So if we're dissociated from our highest self, from our physical body, we can't get those signals. 

Dr. Jill  28:49

I'm saying all this because we cannot truly love ourselves in all of our parts—even the parts that we don't like, think are bad, or whatever notions we put on them—until we trust ourselves. So the first step in healing is getting in touch with our body and saying, “Oh, sweetheart, what are you trying to tell me?” and being kind and loving to ourselves. 

Dr. Jill  29:09

I know that in my own journey, it wasn't until I loved myself and trusted my own signals that my body was telling me. I grew up in this very strong farm family, overcoming environment. I was a super sensitive kid, a super sensitive young girl. In order to survive, I suppressed all those signals that my body was trying to tell me so I could be strong, tough, and survive. But in the end, it did me way more harm than good. So I had to relearn how to get in touch with this beautiful body that God created and how to listen to it. You couldn't really love that full self and all of its parts until you learned to listen to the signals that it was giving you. And that's the BLT, because trusting your intuition and loving yourself is the part of healing that we don't talk about in functional medicine as frequently.

Dr. Jill  30:00

As we sat in that car and talked about it, I said, “This is the core message.” We can talk about fancy supplements for Crohn's, eating right, sleeping well, or all these wonderful lifestyle things. But if you are suppressing a part of yourself, you're going to get sick. And if you are not loving a part of yourself, you're going to get sick. As we realized the power of that, we had to say, “How do we put this into film?” In order to do that, I had to go to some really scary, vulnerable places on screen. You'll see that in the film. 

Dr. Jill  30:29

There's one part I call the “ugly cry.” When you guys put that in the movie, I was like: “Oh! I don't know if I can watch this.” I was like, “Ugh!” But then I was like, “Oh, no, no, I know.” Even for me, watching myself cry, I still get choked up every time because I see that girl who's trying to be strong, tough, overcome, and show up for everybody. Yet she suppressed a part of herself to do that. She's like: “Oh, sweetheart. What if you could be all yourself, authentically you—even if you fall apart—and it'd still be okay? You're still lovable and you're still worthy of love.” I know that those are powerful, but it took a lot of filmmaking and all of that to really get there.

Aaron Carnahan  31:07
That right there is my very favorite part of the film. Hands down every time I laugh and cry at the same time. It's so precious because, in the film, you're speaking to your eight-year-old self. It's a sledgehammer of realization: What does it mean to love yourself? 

Aaron Carnahan  31:37

Jill, you do such a great job of this. I hope it's okay if I say this, but you were speaking to me the other day about a health-related issue for me. I had some concerns, and you reminded me right in that moment: “Aaron, love yourself. You have to do this. This isn't a question of ‘Can I?' ‘Should I?' or whatever. What is the right thing to do to love yourself and to heal your body? That's the right answer.” It hit me again. I went right back to that night when we were filming in your place, and you said that to that little girl. 

Aaron Carnahan  32:20

Everyone who's watching this podcast who hasn't seen this film, please watch the film and grab a hold of that. It's toward the end. It's so powerful because I think this piece of healing goes so far under the radar. Functional medicine—I believe in it. I believe in going to the root cause of disease. I believe in functional medicine experts all around the world. I believe in it. I've dealt with it in my own life with Lyme disease. I just get it, I get it, I get it. But when you get to that part of loving yourself, my God, it's the difference-maker. To me, it's the magic sauce of what you really do: You love them and then encourage them to love themselves. I love it.

Dr. Jill  33:12

Aw, thank you!

Daniel Grace  33:13
It's also the thing that makes it universal, because that's something that everyone can do better. And I was going to say, going back to that anecdote that Aaron shared, the thing that I think comes across is that you live that. You embody those things, Jill, so it comes across so authentically when you're in those moments. It's so easy to relate to because it is you being real and you. It's the fabric of you. And seeing that is powerful.

Dr. Jill  33:53
Thank you both so much for sharing that reflection. It's funny because it's me, right? I'm like, “Huh!” And I'm still struggling with it: “Am I too much? Am I not enough?” I'm still human, so even watching it—

Daniel Grace  34:06
Oh, even in those moments, you were. I remember that. Even in those moments, it was still like: Is this real, though? Am I really real?

Dr. Jill  34:16
I am willing, I think, to go to those places because I know that that's where the connected tissue of humanity is. If I'm suffering or struggling with it, it's probably not just me; it's probably other people too. So that helps to get out there.

Dr. Jill  34:29

In our last few minutes, I'd love to talk about [how] we saw transformation in each of our crew and us. I'd love for us to all get real and vulnerable and share maybe what for each of you guys was the most transformational moment in making the film personally in your life and your career. Do you want to share anything that was powerful for you guys in the process?

Daniel Grace  34:52
It's easy for me. Midway through the process, I came to you and did some blood work. We found Lyme, Bartonella, and all sorts of stuff that I had that was causing all sorts of issues. Without this, I don't ever know that. This isn't a world that I was very familiar with—functional medicine. And that Lyme disease was a real disease was not even a thing that I was really concrete on before getting into this process. Without this film, I don't get diagnosed and I don't get a chance to heal. 

Daniel Grace  35:35

I think that before then I was always gaslit into thinking it was just age. “I'm just getting older. I'm just slowing down.” It's just all this stuff like, “Oh, I just had a kid, so of course I'm tired.” All of this stuff was explained away, but in reality, it wasn't. It was a problem. I think there are a lot of people in that boat. And I think that's a beautiful thing that you do as well, Jill, is just say: “No, this is a problem. You shouldn't feel like this just because you're 35,” just because you're 45, just because you're 55. You shouldn't have to feel that way. So yes, [it was] life-altering for me. So thank you. 

Dr. Jill  36:26
Amazing. Aaron.

Aaron Carnahan  36:28

There are a few of them. The first one is that Daniel and I have worked together for a lot of years. We've worked on TV, and we've worked on films together. In all of those collaborations, I was a boss and Daniel would work with me, but for me in a way. It was always extremely clear to me that Daniel was brilliant and could do anything. When this project came around, it came when Daniel had just left his position and I had left my position with what we had been doing before. And Daniel and I started a company together, and we became equals. We always were equals, but now we really were equals. 

Aaron Carnahan  37:24

The beauty of working with Daniel Grace and being able to truly partner—we're both director and we're both producer—[is that] he could care less [about] who gets what credit. I could care less [about] who gets what credit. We're just both there to love and support one another. But you never know how it's going to really turn out. You're like, “Hey, this could be great!” But also, the wheels could just fall off of it. So being able to go through this process with Daniel was amazing. 

Aaron Carnahan  37:54

So my biggest thank you—when we talk about crew and everybody that we worked with—is for Daniel himself. He means the world to me, and this process has been amazing. I love that I got a huge validation on this film that I've got the right partner with me in this film company and with the work that we're doing. I'm very proud of him for all that he did. And I want to celebrate him over and over and over again because I think he's amazing at what he does. 

Aaron Carnahan  38:24

Anything that you see in the film that's beautiful and awesome, it's Daniel. So that's what I'll say on that. The second thing is that Daniel and I—it's part of our company and a part of our philosophy—always want to love, respect, and hear everyone who works on and is part of our film, from the person who's an intern from CU to the top talent, Dr. Jill, or whatever. Everyone is seen and heard, and everyone is loved. 

Aaron Carnahan  38:59

We had comments from some people who worked on the film. They impacted me greatly because they had been doing this for a number of years and said how much it meant to them to work on our set. And you had said that way early in the process as well, Jill. You agreed with that. You were all about that: “We're going to love people. We're just going to love people.” And I felt like that. So I feel that the film was already a success before it ever got edited and put out to the world. 

Aaron Carnahan  39:26

And the last one I'm going to say as a teaser for another podcast that we're doing is the amazing healing that I experienced working on the film and working with Jill from our past and from all that we had been through together. I felt like we both experienced an enormous amount of healing in the process of making this film. And you never know, this could have been something that could have been a wedge between us. This is something that could have created animosity, resentment, and all kinds of different things because of our past. But it's done nothing but cement our love for one another, our encouragement of one another, and the strength of our relationship and friendship. So that is what I learned most. And I can't wait to hear from you. What did you learn most? What did you get most out of this whole experience?

Dr. Jill  40:35
Wow. I'm blown away by both of you guys—of course, as always, your authenticity and your genuineness. Thank you so much for sharing, both of you. I don't think we've ever actually talked about that, so it's powerful just to even be here live and hear you. For those who are watching and don't know already, Aaron and I were married for 20 years. We went through a divorce in 2017. We are now amazing friends, business partners, and colleagues. So stay tuned. There is coming up an episode with just Aaron and me talking about: How does it work to make a picture, a movie, or a documentary with your ex-spouse? And how does that look? And that's, Aaron, what you were alluding to. And I would agree: It's been a really powerful, transformational process. I talk about the difficulty of the divorce in the midst of you filming. It's pretty crazy, but it's also beautiful. 

Dr. Jill  41:24

And I will say for both of you, one of my most powerful things was—I always talk about this with healing as well—we need to feel safe in our body and safe in an unconditionally loving space in order to heal. And I do my very best to create that with patients. But here I am coming and trying to be very vulnerable and authentic, and you guys both always created in every filming environment a place where I could be really authentic and safe. And I am so grateful because I could have never said the things I said and shared the things I said without feeling completely held and safe by director and producer Daniel and Aaron. As I did this, as I shared, as I talked—we talked in the film about a free fall—in this case, it was a free fall where you're held and you're caught. And I always felt that with you guys. It was a really empowering experience, so thank you for that. 

Dr. Jill  42:16

And for me, I always think I'm being authentic, and then I get pushed a little further and a little further and a little further. And you guys pushed me in a beautiful, beautiful way. You pushed me to go places, to say things, and to include parts that were the most vulnerable and authentic I've ever been. I think that's the power of this film: You're going to see a real raw Jill in some places, but in that sense, it's real for the humanity that watches it, every one of us. So thank you for pushing me and for encouraging me to go deeper than I've ever gone. 

Aaron Carnahan  42:48
You bet. Do you know what may be cool real quick, Jill? I know we're probably about done. Maybe if each one of us says who we think this film is for.

Dr. Jill  42:59

Oh, I love that. 

Aaron Carnahan  42:59

I would love to get your idea of: Who do you think this film is for?

Dr. Jill  43:03
Yes, I had some ideas. And then, as we did screenings, I heard all kinds of things. Maybe you guys can mention some of that. But for me, I want this to be for that person out there who thinks there are no answers for their suffering or their illness. Daniel, you even mentioned it in the film. You were like, “Oh my gosh, maybe I don't have to have fatigue” or foot pain or whatever kinds of things you might have had. I want that to be for that person watching who's maybe never heard of root cause medicine, never heard of functional medicine, and maybe thinks they have to suffer and have these kinds of symptoms. And maybe somehow they're exposed to this film and they have this big—[gasp]—”What if I don't have to suffer? What if there are answers?” That would be my most powerful audience—someone who doesn't know that there are answers for their illness, their healing, or their symptoms.

Aaron Carnahan  43:48
I love that. What do you think, Dan?

Daniel Grace  43:51
I think people looking for inspiration, people looking to not feel alone in suffering in hard times, whether it's physical or emotional, relational—all of the above. Yes. It's hard for me as a filmmaker to say, “Okay, who's this for?” because I just think it's for everyone. 

Aaron Carnahan  44:17
Yes. I think it's for everyone as well. I agree with that. But I also agree with Jill. There were some Q&As and some things that happened after we did some viewings of the film and at film festivals and such. A couple of things really hit me hard. One is that there are so many people who are dealing with complex medical issues that they look fine on the outside. But on the inside—like Daniel, who was exhausted all the time, [or someone with] any of the Lyme symptoms or whatever—they're misunderstood, and they don't know. So to be able to share this film with a family member and say, “This is what I'm talking about,” to help a family member understand what you might be going through with your health issue…

Aaron Carnahan  45:06

And sometimes, if it's our voice saying it, it doesn't connect. But if it's an outside voice… So maybe we can be that outside voice, where it can create a conversation within marriages, [with a] mother and father, or whatever. It's just a vehicle where that could be done. I love that idea. 

Aaron Carnahan  45:31

We've had traditional medical doctors—Jill is a traditional MD but is now a functional medicine MD—who were blown away by the film. It was like: “I could do medicine like that? I can actually just sit and listen to my patients?” There are so many people that I would love to [encourage to] see this film. And that's kind of weird to even say. You're right, Dan. As the filmmaker, you're saying everybody should see this film. It's really coming from that heart of… It's an important thing. We're saying important things that I feel can really help change the world.

Daniel Grace  46:13
Even just going back to the making of things, that was one of the hard parts about trying to craft this film—there were so many things that we wanted to try and cram in there. There were so many messages. And it was for everyone. But also, these very particular things made it a difficult film to edit and craft a narrative around. But I hope that it ended up being that there's a little piece for a lot of people somewhere in there.

Aaron Carnahan  46:48
One thing that blows my mind is the emotional component—the trauma. That and that part of healing—my goodness, how important is it? How important is it that we address that—how trauma can affect physical health? It's huge!

Dr. Jill  47:04
I think the thing that came out to me at the end of the day was that all the supplements in the world, all the IV nutrition, and even all the great listening doctors are not going to heal if you have unresolved trauma, you don't love all parts of yourself, or you don't trust your body to help you heal. So I think these deep, deep messages are the universal humanity messages. And functional medicine or not, it's so much bigger than that. 

Dr. Jill  47:29

You guys, it has been a trip down memory lane to come here and talk to you about this and to go deep again. If you're listening, I know you're going to want to watch this. And we didn't mention this; you can go to DoctorPatientMovie.com. I hope that you'll watch this and that you will share it with everyone you know who will be impacted. All of us know those people who are suffering in our lives. And maybe you're a doctor who wants to share this with a group of people. Maybe you're a university that thinks all medical students should see this. We have all kinds of ways to get this film out here. So stay tuned. You can get a hold of us at DoctorPatientMovie.com if you want some of those bigger opportunities to share it and screen it to an audience that you might find interested. We are expecting amazing things beyond our abilities with this film. And we're just going to keep being out there authentically ourselves and trust.

Dr. Jill  48:20

We didn't share it with you, but part of our amazing story is that at the very beginning, we had zero dollars. We had a dream. All of us believed that if this dream was worth happening, the right people would come and help us and lift us up. And I just want to honor Phil, our investor, right now. The executive producer of the film came as an angel and said: “I believe in your mission and your vision. I want to help you make that happen.” He funded this project. That's a miracle to us. And then all the way through, he has been an amazing, amazing mentor, an amazing supporter. And none of this could have happened without him. So now we're expecting more miracles and more people to take this, run with it, and share it. Our goal is to inspire and impact as many millions of people as we can reach.

Dr. Jill  49:12

Awesome. Thank you, guys, so much for being here today! This was so fun. As always, we had a blast. The time flies. Are there any last words of wisdom you want to leave with our listeners today?

Aaron Carnahan  49:21
No. I just want to say thank you so much, Jill, for having us on here and for being brave—brave enough to do this film and to write your book. Go get Jill's book as well. I see it on her shelf back there, Unexpected. It's an amazing book, so get that as well. But I'm just telling you, Jill, thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you for allowing us to be in your life, a part of this life, and to document your life. It has been a joy. Everyone, please, this is special. Go see it at DoctorPatientMovie.com.

Daniel Grace  49:52
I'll just add what Aaron said. [laughter] He does all the talking for me anyway, so I'll leave it at that.

Dr. Jill  50:02
Thank you, guys! And till next time!

Aaron Carnahan  50:05
Thank you. 

Daniel Grace  50:06

Thank you.