In this episode of Resiliency Radio with Dr. Jill, Dr. Jill Carnahan welcomes Dr. Jaban Moore for an in-depth discussion on the hidden drivers behind chronic illness, including mold toxicity, Lyme disease, parasites, trauma, and nervous system dysfunction.

Drawing from his own journey through chronic illness, Dr. Moore shares how environmental toxins, infections, and unresolved stress can create a perfect storm of inflammation and immune dysregulation. Together, they explore why so many patients remain stuck despite treatment and what it takes to create a foundation for true healing.

This conversation offers practical insights into detoxification, nervous system regulation, parasite protocols, peptide therapies, and creating an internal environment where the body can finally recover.

🔑 5 Key Discussions You'll Discover with Dr. Jaban Moore

① 🦠 The Toxic-Infectious Burden Connection
⇨ Chronic illness often involves a combination of mold exposure, Lyme disease, parasites, and co-infections.
⇨ These overlapping stressors create inflammation, immune dysfunction, and persistent symptoms.

② 🧠 Trauma, Stress & Nervous System Dysregulation
⇨ Mold, infections, and emotional trauma can trap the body in a chronic fight-or-flight state.
⇨ Establishing safety is essential before the body can effectively heal and detoxify.

③ ⚠️ The Rise of Mast Cell Activation Syndrome (MCAS)
⇨ Increasing numbers of patients are developing sensitivities to foods, supplements, light, and environmental triggers.
⇨ Mold exposure, long COVID, and chronic stress may all contribute to MCAS.

④ 🌱 Parasites, Mold & Gut Health
⇨ Parasites and mold frequently coexist due to immune suppression and gut dysfunction.
⇨ Clinical assessment often provides valuable clues when laboratory testing is inconclusive.

⑤ ⚡ Peptides & Advanced Healing Strategies
⇨ Low-dose GLP-1 therapies, growth hormone secretagogues, and mitochondrial peptides may support recovery and longevity.
⇨ These therapies work best when combined with foundational health practices and professional guidance.

🔑 Key Takeaways with Dr. Jaban Moore

🔹 Chronic illness is often driven by a combination of toxins, infections, and nervous system dysregulation.
🔹 Creating a sense of safety is foundational for healing and recovery.
🔹 Mold toxicity and Lyme disease frequently coexist with gut dysfunction and parasitic burden.
🔹 MCAS is becoming increasingly common and requires an individualized approach.
🔹 Peptides may offer exciting new tools for optimization when used appropriately.

About Dr. Jaban Moore

Dr. Jaban Moore is a nationally recognized expert in root-cause medicine and founder of the Redefining Wellness Center.

After overcoming his own battle with Lyme disease and mold toxicity, Dr. Moore dedicated his career to helping patients uncover the hidden causes of chronic illness. With more than a decade of clinical experience and over 10,000 clients served, he has become a trusted voice in the fields of gut health, neuroinflammation, detoxification, and chronic disease recovery.

Known for combining cutting-edge science with practical solutions, Dr. Moore empowers individuals to identify why they are not healing and develop personalized strategies for long-term wellness.

🔗 Website: https://www.redefiningwellnesscenter.com/
🔗 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/redefiningwellnesscenter_/
🔗 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/drjabanmoore

Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD – Leading Functional Medicine Doctor

Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD, ABIHM, ABoIM, IFMCP is internationally recognized as one of the most respected leaders in functional and integrative medicine. She is dually board-certified in Family Medicine and Integrative Holistic Medicine, and the founder and medical director of Flatiron Functional Medicine in Louisville, Colorado.

Widely known as a pioneer in environmental toxicity, mold-related illness, autoimmune disease, and resilience medicine, Dr. Carnahan combines cutting-edge science with compassionate, root-cause care. Her clinical approach integrates precision genomics, epigenetics, microbiome research, peptide therapy, and lifestyle interventions to transform health outcomes for patients worldwide.

She is the author of the best-selling memoir Unexpected, which weaves her personal journey through cancer, Crohn’s disease, and mold-related illness with her professional expertise. Dr. Carnahan is also the executive producer of the award-winning documentary Doctor/Patient and the host of the popular podcast Resiliency Radio, which reaches over 500,000 global subscribers.

As an international keynote speaker, Dr. Carnahan has been featured at leading medical conferences including A4M, IFM, EPIC, and IPM Congress, and her work is frequently highlighted in major media outlets such as NBC, CBS, Fox News, Forbes, Parade, People, and MindBodyGreen.

With a reputation as both a scientist and a healer, Dr. Jill Carnahan is regarded as one of the top functional medicine doctors in the world, offering a unique blend of evidence-based research, innovation, and deeply personalized care.

The Podcast with Dr. Jaban Moore

The Video with Dr. Jaban Moore

Transcript

00:00
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Hey everybody. Welcome to Resiliency Radio, your go to podcast for the most cutting edge insights integrative and functional medicine. I'm your host, Dr. Jill and with each episode we dive into the heart of healing and personal transformation. Join me as I interview world experts, medical leaders, innovators of all types bringing you great information, new insights and wisdom to help you on your journey from optimal performance and healing. No matter where you are, if you're suffering from a complex chronic disease or you're doing great and want to do even better as we age, you can join me and listen to experts expound on all the tips and tricks. And of course I'll share my own things as well on the journey. So thanks for joining us again for another episode today. You will not want to miss Dr. Moore. 

00:47
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
I'll introduce him in just a moment, but we're going to be diving deep into the neuroinflammation, the trauma response and the immune dysfunction that we see around tick borne illnesses, about around mold and around parasites and even long Covid, which has just come about the last half decade or so. So you'll want to stay tuned if you have any sort of complex chronic illness or someone you know. Today's information will be life changing, I promise. Now if you haven't been around that long, I don't know if you know yet, but we have a book, Unexpected. You can find that at any bookstore, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, anywhere books are sold. 

01:24
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
If you want a signed copy of Unexpected Finding Resilience Through Functional Medicine, Science, Faith, you can get that@doctor Jill health.com just put in the notes when you check out who you want it endorsed to and I will personally sign a copy and send it out to you. Speaking of, if you're looking for great products and services, especially some of my beauty products, you can find them all@doctor Jill health.com all kinds of products and services like our Epstein Bar Bundle, our Detox Kit, our Sibo SIFO protocol, and many other things for your gut, for your brain, for your heart, or you name it. You can find them there@drjillhealth.com you can always find free content on my website, podcast, blogs and many other resources@jillcarnahan.com and just in case you didn't know, we are accepting new patients at Flatiron Functional Medicine. 

02:17
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
So if you're looking for someone to help you navigate this complex chronic disease world or some unexplained symptoms, just give us a call. 303-993-7910 And you can schedule with one of my mid level providers, Hannah or Fawn, who I super on all cases. Or you can just get more information about the clinic. Okay, let me introduce our guest today. Our guest is Dr. Jabon Moore. He's a nationally recognized expert in root cause medicine and founder of Redefining Wellness Center. After overcoming his own battle with Lyme disease and mold toxicity, which you'll hear about today, he committed his life to helping others break free from chronic symptoms that conventional care overlooks. Sound familiar? With over a decade of clinical experience and 10,000 clients served, he's become a trusted voice in the gut brain health space known for cutting edge science with compassion and clarity. 

03:06
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
And let's join him as we begin the show. Dr. Moore, we have been hanging in the same circles for a very long time and we've recently did an interview. I was on your podcast and it was so fun and I knew that we've been wanting to do this exchange. So I'm so glad you're here. And what we realized in the talk is just we have so many alignments in how we view the world and how this complex chronic illness that's exponentially rising among our patients, the lens in which we view it. Right. So before we jump into that, I think the title of our show is the Trapped Inflammation How Mold, Lyme and co Infections Can Hijack the Brain and Immune System. And we're going to go everywhere. So stay tuned, you're going to want to hear this show. 

03:45
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
But before we do, I always like the human backstory and I want to know a little bit about how you got into what you're doing and how you got interested in this complex chronic scenarios. 

03:57
Dr. Jaban Moore
You know, I, I live the same story that so many of the patients at UNIC live. I was a collegiate athlete. I was an all American and shot put, discus, hammer, those kinds of throwing events. I graduated from school. I went to go to a professional school. I lost 60 pounds because I was 250 pounds and I lost 60 pounds. I got to the point, actually this is a picture when I'm like presenting and teaching doctors that I put up there. I had a six pack. I, I felt like I looked really healthy, really good. I felt awful. I had erectile dysfunction, I had brain fog, I had joint pain. I felt worse looking the best that I ever had. And like, I wasn't like so skinny that I was sickly. I was fit, but I felt horrible. 

04:43
Dr. Jaban Moore
So when I'm presenting, I'm like, I was, you know, I go, I was Sick here, and then I'm sick here after I lost the weight. And so my journey was, what the heck just happened? I was allergic to almonds and dairy and berries and sweet potatoes and chicken. I mean, I was like, I was really struggling, and I did not know why. I had a sore throat for months and months. And eventually, as the weight was off longer, some of the symptoms faded. But I still was dealing with the allergies, the erectile dysfunction, the being a little more tired than I should be. And finally, after a few years, and I was in school, right? So I was going to functional medicine conferences. I was talking to medical doctors, naturopaths, chiropractors, health coaches, nutritionists. Like, on a weekend basis. 

05:32
Dr. Jaban Moore
I was getting muscle tested, lab tested, adjusted. I mean, like, I should have been able to be well. And it took me until I was in third year of school, and. And I was at a conference, and somebody's like, well, have you thought about Lyme disease? I go, not really, but tell me more. And they're like, well, I don't really know anything. And this was back before Instagram and YouTube and podcasts were cool. So, like, you couldn't just Google a symptom and then get a list. So I went back to that con. Or I talked to the guy at the conference, and he said, well, I know this guy up in Wisconsin. So I drove to Wisconsin from Kansas City, Missouri, and literally, it's a. It's one of those stories your grandpa would tell. And I'm like, man, I must be getting old. 

06:14
Dr. Jaban Moore
I drove through a blizzard to a small town in Wisconsin, got stuck on the doctor's driveway. He plowed the driveway with a tractor for me to get to his house. Like, it's just a story, right? And he's like, yeah, you have Lyme. And what I didn't realize at the time until I was talking to a mold inspector professionally for a patient. I was in college in a dorm. Not a dorm room, an apartment that I was rented that had mold six inches up the walls. But I was poor. I couldn't afford to live somewhere nicer. So it just kind of smelled like mold in my place. And my girlfriend hated it, but I dealt with it. And I was like, oh, that's where the sore throat started. That's where the fatigue started. That's where I started getting injuries in college. Oh. 

07:04
Dr. Jaban Moore
So I had mold. I had Lyme. I ended up doing parasite cleanses. And the one thing that probably hit me the absolute hardest was I gotten through Lyme, felt Pretty good. Most symptoms are gone. I truly never had to detox that much mold because I'd just been out of it so long. I lost all the weight before I didn't know what I didn't know. But when I started trying to detox metals, I would lose my voice every time. And doing this kind of job where we talk to patients every day, I. I would lose my voice every time I tried to take a metal binder. And it taught me a lot about working with people that were sensitive and just kind of understanding physiology as I went through my own journey. 

07:40
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Wow, what a journey. And you're right, it's like mine and many of our colleagues, I always say in functional medicine, integrated medicine, many times the journey is someone's kind of pursuing a more conventional route and they hit a roadblock with themselves or someone they love where what they were taught in their training does not give them all the answers. And it's so common to hear that story on the show and anywhere anyone that, you know, we talk to. But I love the fact that you're curious enough to say what else is going on, because really, at the core of any of us who are doing this, there's curiosity and there's open mindedness about, you know, maybe there's something else going on. And what you just described is so common. 

08:18
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
And that's kind of why I want to dive in today is this layering of toxic load plus infectious burden creating immune inflammation and dysfunction right at the core. And it's so interesting because that mold gets thrown in there and that weakens immune system. So these dormant infections that you didn't even know about, right? Same with me and same with many of our colleagues start to pop their heads up like whack a mole. And then you got infection, you got toxin. And so maybe frame it because what we're dealing with on so many levels of people out there, they just don't feel well and they have no idea why. Or worse yet, they get a diagnosis. 

08:51
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
I just heard recently a hospice care nurse saying, Jill, you would not believe, all of a sudden I'm getting so many cases of ALS and pancreatic cancer, which pancreatic cancer of all kinds of cancers is very quickly acting and usually does not have a long time when they find it. It's very advanced. And her question was, what's going on? Now, those are kind of separate things, but someone might be told they have ALS or Ms. Or just chronic fatigue syndrome. And underlying you and I know there's a lot of other Layers that are contributing to this diagnosis that they give this label to. Right. So let's go to some of those layers and kind of framing you've talked about, kind of the neurotoxic loop and some of these ways in which this all comes together in a milieu. 

09:35
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
But maybe what's your framework around your experience and then what you see into practice? 

09:42
Dr. Jaban Moore
Well, I think, you know, after the podcast you and I did, I just realized that we had. We're on such the same page, so I'll just tell everybody I agree with everything you said through the podcast from you've got to make sure the environment is clean, you've got to regulate the nervous system, you've got to get the toxins out of your home, you've got to rest, you've got to have your circadian rhythm, all of that. So if you want to hear my opinion of that, go listen to Jill talk. And I'm going to just go a little bit further into another way, because we already talked about that. So just, you know, it's part two. So the framing that I've come to is that most people in our industry, you have the people, especially today, it's the nervous system people, right? 

10:23
Dr. Jaban Moore
Like, you got to do the limbic work, you got to do the somatic work, you've got to breath work. And agreed, that is a powerful thing. Trauma can absolutely cause your body to feel like it is unsafe. So my framework is figuring out safety for the body. When you and I talked, you listed out so many different pieces of the puzzle that need to be safe. Air, food, water, hygiene, dental implants in the body and all of that safety is necessary because if your body doesn't feel safe, it's running from a bear. You're not worried about pooping or peeing or food or rest when you're running from a bear. You're worried about one more step. So you're not also going to detox, you're not going to recover your tissues. And that can be from living in mold or being traumatized as a child. 

11:12
Dr. Jaban Moore
Both can cause the same thing to happen. But when you look at the actual process that happens in your brain, if you live in a moldy house and you take a deep breath and that triggers a danger response at the cellular level. Your mitochondria go into a cell danger response that then tells your cells to. To some degree, and I'm simplifying this way too much, but attack everything or die. And most of us are in the attack everything. If you have mcas, sirs, multiple chemical sensitivities, histamine type reactions. So when you get into that state, your body also releases stress hormones. Those stress hormones like cortisol are supposed to pick you up. They're supposed to get you strong enough to be able to overcome this thing, run a little faster from the bear or get away from the mold. 

12:07
Dr. Jaban Moore
And if you can't get away then you keep driving more and more of these cortisol, these adrenal hormones which then become toxic in themselves. They generate a block of things like estrogen or progesterone. Progesterone goes down quicker, which makes you more histamine, more mast cell, more symptomatic. And then as this process continues, your nervous system to get stuck in a fight or flight. So now it's almost traumatized, like you might have been as a child from, you know, a bad situation, but traumatized from mold. So then that loop keeps circling of cortisol going, more histamine, even if you've left the mold. And you can then go to the other side, you can go to the trauma side and just start with. Trauma creates cortisol. And it's the same pattern. 

12:58
Dr. Jaban Moore
And that's why the framework that I work within is like, okay, for a really chronic patients or even anybody, it's what is creating a lack of safety. Whether it's an infection, a toxin or a trauma. Is there a loop of inflammatory markers, autoimmune triggers which we can even lead into like the MCAS world that is self perpetuating that we have to work on because we have to realize that. And then how do we work our way out of this? Whether that's peptides meds, breath work, whether that's detoxing, cleansing, a home. And I'm just gonna stop there because I just said so much. I know we want to pull it apart. 

13:40
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Oh my goodness, I love it. Like I said when we talked before, it's like we are just totally aligned and I really liked how you explained that. One thing I learned when I was researching for my book, and I think we talked about this on the last podcast, was literally that inhalation response into the nose, into the crib form plate actually the chemical can reactivate the HPA axis and trigger a trauma response. And you were describing this, but I was shocked. I thought of course, like if your mind is like, oh no, here's mold again in this hotel. And you're like oh no. And you worry because you know how bad the last experience was, that's One thing that's like a memory of trauma, whatever. And in my mind for many years, I thought that's how mold was. 

14:17
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
It's like, it's very traumatic to go through it. We have this trauma response. But the truth is what you were describing, there's literally a physiological. So like the inhalation of a musty smell can trigger the hp, even if we're like, I know I'll be fine, I've done this before, I can get, I can take binders, I can do this. And that really shifted my understanding because it literally is chemicals, noxious chemicals, VOCs and mold and mycotoxins can literally physiological. Even if you're like, you've done therapy, you're all okay about mold and you know you're going to be okay in the end, there's a physiological response. And that was, to me mind blowing. 

14:52
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
But also explained why literally 100% of patients that I've treated for mold related illness have to deal with the trauma, even if again, they've had thousands of hours of therapy and work and they're the, you know, top neuropsychologist in the world. We all of us who've been have that piece where the limbic activation which you so eloquently described. And then on top of that, I always like to differentiate because I've always, in many fields that are looking at the research, there's a lot of animal studies because it's not really ethical to expose humans to mold, right? So the first data that we had, right, with all animal studies and what they showed in the feed of animals, okay, they get a little toxic from like aflatoxins in the soy and corn that they're eating. 

15:33
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
So then there was this correlation with humans saying, oh, it's just from the food that you eat that your mycotoxins are high. And we know now that's not true because when we ingest mold, the liver first bypass the phase one and phase two will actually decrease the toxicity a little bit because it has to go through the gut and through the blood and through the liver. But if we inhale it literally goes into our alveoli. And these mycotoxins are so small, they're 2.5 microns and smaller. They go directly into the bloodstream. There is zero filter. And that's why you and I and anyone who's experienced this within seconds of being in a moldy building. We could have cognitive dishes, depression, anxiety, you know, breathing issues, because it's such a rapid Response, it's like direct to the bloodstream, right? 

16:15
Dr. Jaban Moore
Absolutely. And honestly, what you're saying, if I hear that from a patient, like I immediately have a very significant response years after being well and being stabilized. That immediately tells me we haven't done a complete level of work to resolve some of that. Like, I want you to get a little post nasal drip. If you go to a multi hotel room. That's normal, that's natural. I want you to go, oh man. Yeah, I can smell this. I don't like this. But if you have the migraine or like a shutdown type symptom, or you start going into a dysautonomia response, that immediately tells me that the neural part of your toxic loop is not totally solved out. And I've gone down a lot of rabbit holes to try and figure out how to help people. 

16:59
Dr. Jaban Moore
I've done procaine IVs, I've done stellate ganglion blocks, I've done Frankenhauser injections, I've gone and done neurofeedback because I'm curious. I'm trying to figure out, like, how do you help people? And after going through all of those different types of supportive treatments alongside of the detox, like, once you've actually done the detox, I've been able to find a lot of people can get to a point where, you know, you don't have to live subconsciously in mold fear, right? Because consciously, like you said, you're like, I should be able tolerate that. Then you go into a place and you're like, my body doesn't want tolerate this. It's sending off the, you know, it's like, what's the difference? 

17:38
Dr. Jaban Moore
Like you know, you have a little fire pit and a tiny little bit of fire gets out and you just step on it and you're like, that didn't stress me out at all. Versus you see a little bit of fire and you think it's like one of those TV shows where all of a sudden it's the whole forest is breathing level of stress. You've got to have the appropriate stress response. And if you don't, for me that's a sign. 

17:58
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Hey guys. Just a quick interruption to the show to remind you that at Flatiron Functional Medicine, my practice near Boulder, Colorado, we are accepting new patients. So many people out there who listen are suffering, or maybe you know someone friend, family member or relative that is suffering from some complex, chronic mysterious illness or fatigue, or you name it, and we are Here to help. You can call 303-993-7910 to get information about our practice or schedule with a provider. If you're not sure about it, you can also schedule a 10 minute intro call with one of my mid level providers, Fawn or Hannah just to get to know them and see if it's a good fit. And don't forget all kinds of special curated products and services are available@drjillhealth.com things like my very favorite bio peptide beauty cream. My total not to leave home without. 

18:49
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
I take this wherever I go. It's my favorite anti aging products on our store Biopeptide beauty cream. And you can find that and so many other things@drjillhealth.com okay, let's get back to our show. Okay, that was so well put. What would you say are the most. You said you've tried all these things, you know that could help that what are the tried and true like the top three things for someone to regulate limbic or vagal kind of responses. 

19:16
Dr. Jaban Moore
So I broke these apart because you know when you're going through school you have active therapies and you have passive therapies, right? Active means you're doing something actively to teach yourself. Like physical therapy, right? So physical therapy of the brain to me is the limbic somatic work because that's actively you doing it. You're doing a daily practice that can include breath work, vagal nerve exercises. Primal trust is one of my favorite programs for this. I literally call it physical therapy to the brain. To my patients. I'm like this is not some woo thing. This is not therapy where you're talking about things. This is actual exercises you do for your brain to change subconscious patterns. Now that is a commitment. That's like you tear an acl, you got to go to physical therapy. 

19:59
Dr. Jaban Moore
It could be three, six, nine months of physical therapy to get back to normal. So that's not a short term solution. Short term solutions, one of them I stumbled onto a by accident. I had a neurofeedback device in my office. I was taught how to do it. They had specific cadences that you had to do things at. It wasn't what is called true neurofeedback. It was more entrainment. So it was like a subclass of neurofeedback. And one of those was alpha theta, which is even below entrainment where it was just simply putting you in that almost asleep. If you've ever just laid there and you're like I don't know if I fell asleep, but it felt so good. I was so relaxed. That kind of positioning of your brain waves. 

20:43
Dr. Jaban Moore
If you can get someone there for 30 minutes twice a day for a week, that's stuck in fight or flight, that's like truly massive, truly reactive, truly. They're, they're really uncomfortable in the world right now. They're listening to us and their shoulders are creeping forward and they're creeping up and they're probably a little uncomfortable because we're calling them out a little bit on some things those individuals do that I've actually had people have some pretty significant like almost hercs like reactions from just light flashing in their eyes. And I'm not talking about a seizure, their eyes are closed. I'm talking about non seizure related type things. I'm not talking about some sort of fear response. It's just like that light is entraining them to relax and their body is in such a fight or flight state that they cannot do it. 

21:31
Dr. Jaban Moore
So by getting them into that state, it really has helped break some of the mast cell. I've seen people go from I can't tolerate a homeopathic to 30%, 40% reduction in symptoms of mast cell symptoms. That's temporary if you don't do the work with it. So I'd say do the active work. The passive work is the neurofeedback Stella ganglion works some, you know, it could be 10, 20 reduction. It's not a magic trick. It's an injection of procaine or lidocaine over the vagus nerve, goes through the neck. It's kind of scary, but it, I did it several times. It's not painful. More than just a, you know, a needle prick. That's not my go to at the beginning, but I think those are probably some of the top nervous system solutions that I use. Not peptide or medication. 

22:27
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Yeah. Oh good. And stay tuned. We will go on to peptide and medication because I know out there you're like, okay, tell us more about peptides. Right? That's the hot topic. We will. Interesting that you say that because one of my favorite things when I get a little dysautonomic, which again I'm 95 better, but I still get mold exposures and I can tell, okay, I have to is I get on my PEMF mat at the Schumann frequency which is a very alpha and theta kind of state and live 30 minutes. I go into that kind of like almost lucid dream. I Always feel better. And it makes. 

22:59
Dr. Jaban Moore
Oh yeah. 

22:59
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
It's just another way to kind of do that for me. It just like right beside me here is my mat. It is my favorite device for me to self regulate that state. It really always helps. It makes sense because it's a similar kind of thing. 

23:11
Dr. Jaban Moore
Oh, I love it. I've, you know, I can remember when I was doing some of my training and the teacher said, yeah, there's high level CEO type people that come in and they lay on this thing for eight straight hours. And it just puts them in that zone of relaxation, which is where you actually start being creative. So it allows for you to start solving out problems well in your body. If you're always in fight or flight, you're always stressed out, you're not resting, your body's not allowing for you to go into your hippocampus and process through some of those traumas, whether that's mold toxicity or whatever it is that your body is stressed out about. So I've had people remember unfortunate things that happen to them. 

23:53
Dr. Jaban Moore
The memories come back, but they, when they come back, they told me about 92% of the time they don't need therapy for these things because when it comes back in that state, it's just like, oh, now I realize why I was so uncomfortable, why there was this stress, this trauma, and then they release and they go on. I. We'd have therapists if they needed them to work with them. But yeah, it's just incredible the work that you can do by allowing the body to relax and come out of the defense mechanisms. 

24:24
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Wow. I love that. And it relates to. I always tell patients journaling and kind of understanding your story is so powerful because there's been studies that show if you a writer or you're just a journaler and you can actually tell the story of something that happened to you, traumatic in a way that makes sense as an adult. That alone is as good as cbt, which is cognitive behavioral therapy and a lot of the somatic therapies as well. It's almost like if we can retell our story in a way that, oh, yeah, that was then. And I'm no longer in that pattern. And I can. So it's neat because you're. You're describing another way to kind of access those memories. And I always say, like, metabolize them, right? 

25:02
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
It's like metabolizing food and digesting it and then it comes out to the nutrients that we need for our body, which. And if we can understand our story and retell it in a way, just personally for ourselves, writing it, or even to someone else. All of a sudden that understanding gives it a different context and flips the trauma switch. 

25:20
Dr. Jaban Moore
Right, exactly. 

25:23
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
So you mentioned. Well, first of all, we kind of started with Lyme and mold and parasites and like this whole milieu. And again, you and I know that you kind of have to address all those things. Do you want to talk about maybe your preference for either order of operations or just a little bit of a blip on? Because that's such a common thing that I see as well. Where people do have toxin like mold's probably the most common. They also have co infections like Lyme or mycoplasma or parasites. How do you order your treatment strategies? 

25:52
Dr. Jaban Moore
So I'll just say this, and I know this is kind of the broken record of all of us functional medicine doctors. It's like it's gotta be unique to the person. But if I had to pick a common path, it's figure out how to make them actually have an environment that is safe, so whatever would not be causing safety. And one thing that doesn't get touched on enough besides molding a home and food and water and hygiene is your water supply actually clean? So I like to tap into that one because it's something that I think I talk about a little more than others. And what I end up doing is I go to an EWG water database, I look up your water supply from the EPA and I say, what's in there? Well, in 170 million Americans, there's radioactive elements, uranium, radium, or radon. 

26:39
Dr. Jaban Moore
Those elements do not get removed well and consistently by any type of filtration except distillation. That's it. So I just look up your water, I'm like, hey, is it in there? If it's a problem, we need to deal with it. I'll also do a hair tissue mineral test to see if it's in your body. And I've seen that be something that has stopped people from getting well, that have been to amazing physicians that were doing all the right things in the mold realm or all the right things in the Lyme realm. And that by itself held people up. So. So that safe environment is step one. Number two is. And concurrently, if you are not feeling safe. So let's say you have anxiety, depression, mood swings, brain fog, you don't feel safe. 

27:20
Dr. Jaban Moore
We need to work on safety, which is what we just talked about. Those two things are done concurrently while we're starting to work inside the physical body. And what I do is the first thing I want to bring in is depending upon a person's histamine and inflammatory responses. If they're low, then we're going to go more into, like, liver gallbladder lymph drainage first. If their histamine or inflammation's high, then we can go work on histamine and inflammation first. Had a woman come in today, said rate was 86, which is way, way too high. And when we looked at, you know, her histamine type responses, I mean, even just taking, like, some milk thistle would cause her to ration break out. So, okay, well, we got to work on histamine and inflammation first. 

28:05
Dr. Jaban Moore
So we brought in the natural things to begin with to bring down histamine and inflammation. And if we run into a roadblock there, then I have a whole build out of, like, we can go to peptides and we can go to meds from. Because. Because she wanted to be natural first. So we can just go down the line of what's necessary to bring in for her. Once histamine and inflammation's down, then we're going to drainage. So I love bringing in tud cut milk thistle. I like bringing in dry brushing, sweating, which can be done in a sauna, and just really getting the body to be clearing itself out. Because once I start going in and trying to mobilize toxins, I don't want it getting bunched up on liver flukes, parasites in the liver. 

28:46
Dr. Jaban Moore
So that would be the next place I would go before I go into toxins is I'm going to go into opening up drainage pathways. And a lot of people talk about, oh, well, just sweat, detox, coffee enema. I'm like, those are great. But if you have a physical presence in the liver, like a liver fluke or a different parasite, you got to get them out of the way because they're. They're physically large and they block things up. Also, parasites release endotoxins that cause you to be more constipated and things to move slower. So I got to get those out. So I typically would go to. From drainage to parasite to bacteria, bacteria to mold. And a lot of people out there going, you got to do mold first. Well, remember I said, get yourself in a safe environment. 

29:26
Dr. Jaban Moore
We cannot be living in mold, right? But I may not be detoxing mold first because I want to make sure things that are large, molecules larger than a mycotoxin are out of the way so that when I start mobilizing mycotoxins, they don't get stuck somewhere and cause more problems. So once I get through mold and I gotta just throw in there and mold colonization. If you're not dealing with mold colonization, meaning living, growing mold inside the body, that is something I see missed all the time. And then I go into the environmental toxins, metals, viruses and yeast. But something kind of more new in the last few years is the spike protein long Covid complex that sometimes has kind of transplanted itself into the beginning. 

30:10
Dr. Jaban Moore
If you have extreme sensitivity with histamines and mast cell, sometimes we have to go in and do the spike protein long Covid work first because you're so reactive. I can't even get to working on parasites. 

30:24
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Wow, that's a great frame and so comprehensive and again, so many ways. I could not agree more. It's. And I love that you said you have to be in a safe environment first because that is like non negotiable. It doesn't have to be perfect because some people also in that trauma response freak out and be like, how in the world I'm going to go camp in Idaho, you know, like. And that's not a bad idea. But it's like not always necessary to go to that extreme. But you really have to make sure you don't have massive mold growth in your environment. We touched on mast cell. I think that's so important and it's really just you and I talked before at the other podcast too. But I love your framework because it's definitely increasing in prevalence and incidence. 

31:04
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
And to me it's just like a sign of the load on our system. Right. Like we're getting what's your thoughts on specific mast cell activation, histamine responses are you see of it? And why is that? 

31:16
Dr. Jaban Moore
Oh my gosh. I say this all the time. I'm talking to different providers. I'm like, what is going on in this world? I was working with complex chronic illness, Lyme mold parasites prior to, you know, 2020, 2021. And yeah, I saw some mast cell people, but I hardly heard mcas. It wasn't even a thing. And that's not something you miss. Yeah, right. People that can't tolerate sunlight, most foods, most supplements, most homeopathics weren't everyday occurrences. I get somebody like that every day now that they're on. I've got a guy right now that's only goat meat. That's it. That's all I can tolerate. Oh, and just to get him stabilized enough to be functional, we've brought in BPC, KPV and a low dose GLP1 alongside of he can't tolerate LDN, he can't tolerate katata and can't tolerate cromolyn yet. 

32:21
Dr. Jaban Moore
So like that dish didn't hardly exist six, seven years ago I saw one or two people ever and then now it's just a flood of it and it's all over social media and it wouldn't be if there wasn't a massive uptick. I just built out an entire guide that I was working on for our website and it's up to something like 17% have significant MCash responses. Now previous to Covid and all of that it was down below 1%. So it's a significant increase. And that's where I even brought up like the long Covid spike protein Covid vaccination complex. Because as far as I can tell, besides the stress we all went through during that period of time, that is what's really hanging on to people. 

33:08
Dr. Jaban Moore
And when you can solve out some of that before you get into things, it reduces a drastic amount of the work that you've got to do around mitigating mast cell reactivity from what I'm seeing. So yeah, it's way up. I think long Covid is a part of it, I think stress trauma is a part of it, I think non stop dopamine responsing on social media is a part of it. But it is honestly just wild. The level of reactivity that I see on a day to day basis, 30 seconds of red light can trigger some of the people I've worked with. 

33:47
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Yeah, no, I could not agree more. It is exponentially increasing and it definitely is post pandemic worse. And whether or not that's the only reason, I think there's more than just that. I actually think the mold thing. You and I talked about this support too, but I don't know if it's the EMF increase because this is a living organism that's responding also to our environment just like we are. But there is a massive uptick in homes, new homes, old homes, offices, courthouses, schools that have major mold issues that didn't 10 years ago or even 5 years ago. 

34:18
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
I think I told you this as well, but in the last three months I've been kind of looking for a new home and I looked at over 40 homes so far and I would guess that 80 to 85%, maybe even more, had a significant mold issue. Is that not crazy? And these are like new beautiful. These are not like, you know, $200,000 condo. These are like really, these are nice homes, you know, nothing and all that. But the condos, the builds, the new homes, the any and any range, someone can say, oh my goodness, I'm in the range of a, you know, custom multimillion dollar mansion. Some of those are the worst because there's so many areas or so many bathrooms and if they aren't all properly installed. So we could go on and on about that. 

34:57
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
I won't, but I just, I want to acknowledge if you're wondering what is going on, it's very real. There is an increase in mold in homes and people are getting sick. And back to our first part of the story when we said someone has ALS or pancreatic cancer or some new onset autoimmune disease. Many of them have no idea that the root of that is this whole thing. We're talking about Dr. Moroni, which is toxic load, infectious burden, immune inflammation, cell danger response, mast cell activation. Two things you said. I want to go back with so very few practitioners besides you and I are talking about parasites and liver flukes and these things. And I think in even in great practitioner functional world, especially many of my colleagues, they're like, well, if I can't see it on the stool, it doesn't exist. Right. 

35:38
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
You're never going to see flukes on the stool. So how do you diagnose? Is it a clinical diagnosis? Is it actual? How do you tell if someone has liver flukes and then that in particular and other parasites? What part do you do herbals? Do you do medications? Where do you go with that? That. 

35:52
Dr. Jaban Moore
Yeah. So when it comes to parasites, the labs are awful. They, they're almost useless. 

35:57
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Yes. 

35:58
Dr. Jaban Moore
Parasite labs are highly expensive. If you want to do them well, you're going to use five, six, seven different lab companies. You're going to spend 500 bucks per each test and you, they might find blast assistance one and giardia on another. And it's just, it's not worth the money to do all of that. I've had patients that have sent their lab testing over to a veterinarian and the veterinarian's like, oh, I found all these things for you because they looked in there and they're looking for the body parts, the eggs, the ovum, all of it, not just one type. And it's somebody that's professionally doing this versus a lab tech. No, hate to the lab techs, but they're also only given two minutes and told to look for very specific things. And it's, who knows how old? 

36:44
Dr. Jaban Moore
So the testing is just not worth it. And I'm not gonna spend 500 bucks when I can go spend a hundred bucks on a parasite cleanse. And let's just do the test and if you see them come out, yeah, there they are. So for those of you that are listening, like, well, how do I know if I have parasites? Well, if you have grinding your teeth, you're dealing with symptoms that worsen around the full moon. A lot of times I've seen even like nematodes like Strongyloides around women's ovaries. So their cycles are much worse. If you have GI pain or issues, diarrhea, constipation, any GI symptoms, Honestly, I'm thinking parasites is a potential eczema, rashing, skin rashing, I would consider parasites. You could also go to mold. Right? Like they're. These things overlap significantly. But if you have mold, you basically have parasites. 

37:31
Dr. Jaban Moore
Because if you've had mold for any length of time, you've suppressed your immune system. And by suppressing your immune system, it's allowing whatever you come into contact with, which is dirt and food, to get in your body and cause problems. When you're stressed out, you naturally decrease your hydrochloric acid production when you're stressed from living in mold, having trauma, taking antibiotics, working too much. That reduction of hydrochloric acid then makes you more vulnerable to parasites coming into your digestive tract through things like sushi or medium or less cooked meat or anything raw. And when people think raw, they're thinking meat, right? No, I'm talking about berries and fruits and other vegetables. When those are raw, parasites are in there too, because it's coming from the soil. So this is something that I get into conversations with people. 

38:20
Dr. Jaban Moore
I'm like, can you logically tell me that your dog, cat, ferret, whatever you have in your house has parasites that the vet found? You see them poop them out when they take the treatment, but you're in the same exact environment, that animal's on your bed, couch, or even kissing you, and you don't have them because all of a sudden humans, we're so uniquely strong with our really good diets and amazing gut health. No, not most of us, very few of us have can say that you haven't taken antibiotics, you haven't stressed yourself out. You eat a really organic whole food diet, which maybe some of your listeners do, but the majority know you're telling me you're better off than the wild animals that are supposed to be able to defend against this. No, that's not the way it works. Absolutely. 

39:06
Dr. Jaban Moore
We're going to have parasites. And then you say what do I use to work on these things? Honestly, I've seen everything work. Ivermectin and benazole, posiquanol work, fenbendazole works. But those are unique compounds that are pharmaceutically made that they work towards certain types of parasites and they work for a period of time and then they stop working. In my experience, I've had people do what's called a sharkman's protocol, where they were cycling multiple high dose medications, like multiple at the same time, which they had to watch their liver markers because it was pretty dangerous for the liver. And then they came in and I put them on mirinda and black walnut and clove and a few other things and then a bunch more parasites came out. So I think the combination can be effective. 

39:50
Dr. Jaban Moore
I primarily use herbs and I see that we get pretty good results because I'm also considering the mold, the Lyme, the GI bacterias, the yeast and the viruses alongside of it. And by combining those, the reality is this, your immune system can get rid of the parasites on its own if it's not burdened by other things. So if I can just lower the threshold of the overall burden on your body's going to do the rest. And that's how it's designed. There is no medication, there is no antibiotic or anti parasitic or antifungal that will absolutely rid you of all organism that is trying to work on. That's what your immune system will regulate. Not the med is just to bring you below pathogenic load. 

40:34
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
So well, so well put. I like I said, I love talking to you because we're so aligned. I'm always telling patients, you know, it's just a matter of you gotten mold or you got under stress or you got Covid, long Covid and your immune system bar dropped and then all these things are popping up. It's not just the infections because if went out on the street and tested 10,000 people for Lyme disease, I bet 30% of them would have a positive Borrelia, IG and maybe IGM and they're fine. There's no joint pain, no brain fog. So what's the deal with them? And then my patient is really sick and bedbound from chronic borrelia or bartonella or Babesia. And the difference is that immune system. 

41:10
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
So at the core we go back to that and the immune system responds to stress and psychological trauma and all the things we Talked about. About. So gosh, we could talk forever. We just did a really good overview. I want to do a few ending questions that I think people are really curious about. We've been talking about complex chronic illness, which there's so much of. I want to shift just a little to someone who wants more performance, longevity and just optimal health. And they're doing okay. What would be your top three to five peptides that you think are the most promising for just not only the mast cell stuff, but maybe just optimal health and performance? 

41:43
Dr. Jaban Moore
You know, there's so many directions to come from with this. It's such an exciting field right now to start working through. So you know the number one most common thing for peptides today is what? Weight loss. Right. So I actually like using the GLPs, whether that is tirzepatide or 2A tide, which is kind of hard to get your hands on today. But those at a really low dose, like a fifth to a tenth of the weight loss dose that people are using out there are really mast cell stabilizing in the gut. So especially for the clients that are like, I'm mostly all the way better or I just want to optimize, that can stabilize the gut, it can decrease inflammation, it can help control hunger for those who have had weight loss issues in the past. So those micro doses can be pretty useful. 

42:31
Dr. Jaban Moore
I think that's actually starting to catch on a little bit now. I do love putting a little testamorlin in there or even some cjc, especially if you want to keep the muscle mass because that's the huge problem is people are overdosing peptides no different than they've overdosed everything else in the past. A little is good, more must better. Right. So a little bit of steroids for athletes makes them stronger, faster, and I'm not saying I, I'm behind that. But then what did we do back in the 80s and 90s? We took a ton of them, which doesn't even show effective at making you all that much stronger. But more is better. Right. So then they destroyed their livers and destroyed everything else. So like that's just the mindset behind people that oftentimes are trying to optimize. So it's finding that happy place. 

43:14
Dr. Jaban Moore
So if you can take a micro dose of a GLP1 with a testamorelin. Some studies I read was there was like a 12 fat reduction while putting on muscle mass. 

43:24
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Yeah. 

43:24
Dr. Jaban Moore
Over a 90 day period, which was incredible. So that can be a great Stack. I love combining if you're trying to get into mitochondria, things like a MOT C and an SS31. Because now you're working on different parts of the mechanism of mitochondria. And then once you get the mechanisms built, you could throw in those things like nad and when NAD is good, but some people take it, they're like, it doesn't work for me. I'm like, well, you're too suppressed. Your body's not working well enough. So if we've already got the optimal stage, let's bring down the inflammation, let's increase the growth hormone and then let's optimize the mitochondria. So your body then starts producing and using the energy. And from there it's just like, well, what do you want to do? 

44:06
Dr. Jaban Moore
I mean, people can do a GHKCU for their, their skin, their collagen health. You can do a BPC157TB500 for your ligaments and tendons. But it just kind of comes down to if we're in longevity and optimizing, what's your goals? Are you a, you want to be a crossfitter? Do you want to be a marathoner? Do you want to just feel good long term? 

44:30
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Perfect. Oh my gosh, that was a phenomenal. I told you guys it'd be worth the wait. So. And agree on all fronts. Like, and it's funny because this is just now popular. I've been doing these stacks with patients for over 10 years, like CLPs before they were ever even on the radar at all. We used them in diabetes and we use them in body composition. And I've known that and you have too probably been. This is nothing new. It's just all of a sudden finally popular and there is safety. So you and I know that in the hands of a good practitioner. Please, guys, don't get these on the black market because there is. I had two patients that have had anaphylaxis with Amorelin. Either Moralin, because either impurity. We don't know for sure if it was impurity. 

45:10
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
I'm not sure which kind they use, but they were literally, they called the emergency, you know, the ambulance. It was pretty severe. So be careful. If you're out there trying these without a doctor's supervision, I would recommend you use medical superv. Last question is personal for you. What is the top three habits that you could not live without that have kept you performing and just learning and growing? And what are the top three things that are most important for you personally. 

45:35
Dr. Jaban Moore
Oh, I'm going to give you a laugh because you're looking at buying a home or building a home or whatever you're going to do. I built my shower in my bathroom with a glass plate in the shower cut out of the wall of the tiled wall and it is a 42 inch red light panel that I have stuck in there with electricity safely outside of the shower and I just press the button before I go in. So I red light shower versus just like standing. I'm also, I also love to be busy so I do that which helped my knees because well, here's for all of your patients, here's some flexibility for all of those people that are Ehlers Danlos or hyper collagen levels. There you are. So for me I was getting joint dislocations. 

46:23
Dr. Jaban Moore
My kneecap kept coming off in high school, so my knee didn't love continuing to work out when I was not red lighting. And since I've been red lighting I can work out so much more on that injured knee. And then to go with that, the other things that I, I really like to do is I've kind of been addicted to saunaing lately. So I got a sunlight and sauna. I sit inside there, it's the 70 by 70 and it has a TV. So I sit in there and I put on like your podcast or somebody else's podcast that I want to listen to and learn and I'm able to watch that while sitting in a red light infrared sauna. And then we put like hydrogen in there while we're sitting in there. So you get all of those biohacks inside the sauna. 

47:10
Dr. Jaban Moore
So I'm loving that. So I said red light and then I said sauna. And honestly I'm just going to go back to the old school one. I love working out and I love working out intensely and I love working out in a group. So I go to a. What I didn't know when I signed up, but I call it the old man's CrossFit gym at this point because the average age is like 45, 50, so it's not like let's just get in there and lift the heaviest weights and do the most muscle ups. It's let's get in there and do heart rate hit type workouts but also have days of longer cardio workouts. So they built it for people that aren't trying to go to the games and compete in CrossFit. 

47:49
Dr. Jaban Moore
It's more for, hey, we just like to all do this together and be a group. So I get that positive reinforcement of group and community and conversation along with whether it be strength training, intermittent training, or long training. And it's all designed in the week, so. So fitness, sauna and red light. 

48:06
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Oh my goodness. I love it. I can't wait to try some of this in my new home. Really, really love it. Oh my gosh. As always, it is such a pleasure to talk to you. Thank you for bringing, like such a consolidated amount of information in our time. If people want to know more about you've got a podcast. You've got so many programs and services and things. Where can they find more about you? 

48:27
Dr. Jaban Moore
Just look me up. Dr. Jabin Moore.com or on YouTube or Instagram. We're growing our YouTube. Want to be like you someday with a giant YouTube supporting people and educating people. Our Instagram is a little bit bigger than anything else, so we put out content every single day because the goal is this. When I was searching for help, I couldn't find it. So I want to be able to give that education and that help to people. So that's why we're putting out social media every day. And we work virtually across the nation. We work with people all over the place. So just jump out there. Dr. Jabin Moore. My name is spelled J A B as in boy a N. And you can find me. 

49:06
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Awesome. Thanks again for coming on the show. We are going to have to do this again. Hey guys, wasn't that a great packed interview with Dr. Jabon Moore? I hope you enjoyed it. Hey guys, if you haven't yet subscribed or liked on wherever you're listening, why don't you please just hit the subscribe button. It helps us reach more people. We're on target to hit 1 million subscribers on YouTube this year and we'd love for you to be part of that. If you haven't yet, click the bell to be notified of future episodes. You can do that if you're here on YouTube and if you're anywhere else, audio listening, Spotify, itunes and you name it, or you like to listen to podcast, please stop by and leave a review. 

49:42
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
It also helps us reach more people with even better people that I bring on the show. Thanks again guys for joining us. As always, you can find more information on my website, jillcarnahan.com if you have any suggestions for guests or future podcast episodes, I always am willing to take that information and I will see you again next week. For another episode of Resiliency Radio.