In this episode, Dr. Jill is joined by Dr. Chris D'Adamo, a leading researcher in integrative health and nutritional immunology, to discuss the critical role of beta glucans in supporting and modulating the immune system.

Exclusive Invitation: Gut Health Reset with Dr. Zielinski & Reggie Black

Key Topics You'll Discover with Dr. Chris D'Adamo

① Introduction to Beta Glucans:
👉 Chris introduces beta glucans as a powerful yet underappreciated tool for immune support. The conversation highlights their potential in treating complex chronic infections like Lyme disease and mold-related illnesses.

② Understanding Immunity:
👉 The episode explains the difference between innate and adaptive immunity, emphasizing the role of natural killer cells in the innate immune system. These cells are crucial for targeting pathogens and tumor cells.

③ Mechanisms of Beta Glucans:
👉 Chris discusses the unique properties of beta glucans, focusing on their immunomodulating capabilities. The conversation covers the specific linkages (1,3 and 1,6) that contribute to their effectiveness.

④ Clinical Applications and Research:
👉 The episode explores ongoing clinical trials and research studies that investigate the role of beta glucans in aging and longevity. Chris shares insights into how beta glucans can help retrain the immune system to fight diseases more effectively.

⑤ Environmental Concerns:
👉 The discussion touches on the impact of environmental toxins like PFOAs and the role of beta glucans in detoxification processes.

What You’ll Take Away from Dr. Chris D'Adamo

📌 Beta Glucans as Immune Boosters: Beta glucans are highlighted as essential for enhancing immune function, particularly in chronic infections and cancer.
📌 Longevity and Aging: The potential of beta glucans in promoting longevity and combating age-related diseases is a significant focus, with promising research underway.
📌Environmental Detoxification: Beta glucans may aid in detoxifying harmful environmental substances, offering a natural approach to reducing toxic load.

Dr. Chris D'Adamo

Dr. Chris D’Adamo is a research scientist and Assistant Professor at the University of Maryland School of Medicine, where he focuses on how lifestyle choices and environmental exposures impact health across the lifespan. He formerly served as Director of Research at the university’s Center for Integrative Medicine and has led numerous clinical trials and studies on nutrition, supplements, exercise, stress management, and health coaching.

Dr. D’Adamo has authored over 100 peer-reviewed publications, contributed to leading medical textbooks, and speaks internationally on integrative and lifestyle medicine. He also serves as a scientific advisor to several organizations and companies in the natural products industry and is frequently featured in major media outlets for his expertise in natural health.

Exclusive Invitation: Gut Health Reset with Dr. Zielinski & Reggie Black

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bwhlabs

Dr. Jill Health Beta Glucan 100mg: https://www.jillcarnahan.com/glucan100
Dr. Jill Health Beta Glucan 500mg: https://www.jillcarnahan.com/glucan500

Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD

Dr. Jill Carnahan is Your Functional Medicine Expert® dually board certified in Family Medicine for ten years and in Integrative Holistic Medicine since 2015. She is the Medical Director of Flatiron Functional Medicine, a widely sought-after practice with a broad range of clinical services including functional medical protocols, nutritional consultations, chiropractic therapy, naturopathic medicine, acupuncture, and massage therapy.

As a survivor of breast cancer, Crohn’s disease, and toxic mold illness she brings a unique perspective to treating patients in the midst of complex and chronic illness. Her clinic specializes in searching for the underlying triggers that contribute to illness through cutting-edge lab testing and tailoring the intervention to specific needs. 

A popular inspirational speaker and prolific writer, she shares her knowledge of hope, health, and healing live on stage and through newsletters, articles, books, and social media posts! People relate to Dr. Jill’s science-backed opinions delivered with authenticity, love and humor. She is known for inspiring her audience to thrive even in the midst of difficulties.

Featured in Shape Magazine, Parade, Forbes, MindBodyGreen, First for Women, Townsend Newsletter, and The Huffington Post as well as seen on NBC News and Health segments with Joan Lunden, Dr. Jill is a media must-have. Her YouTube channel and podcast features live interviews with the healthcare world’s most respected names. 

The Podcast with Dr. Chris D'Adamo

The Video with Dr. Chris D'Adamo

The Transcript – Overview

Overview

• Dr. Chris D'Adamo's personal journey in nutrition and aging is influenced by his grandfather's longevity, highlighting the importance of diet and exercise.
• Beta glucans, polysaccharides found in various foods, have different structural types that serve specific health functions, including immune and cardiovascular support.
• Immune system engagement through beta glucans involves receptors like CR3 and Dectin 1, increasing IL-10 secretion and enhancing natural killer cell activity.
• Recommended dosing for beta glucans is 100mg daily for maintenance and up to 1g daily for acute exposure; contraindicated for patients on immunosuppressants.
• A 2024 systematic review indicated beta glucan supplementation can significantly improve mood, energy levels, and reduce anxiety by lowering cortisol levels.
• As prebiotics, beta glucans enhance gut health by fermenting into short-chain fatty acids, promoting beneficial bacteria growth like Lactobacillus and Bifidobacterium.
• BWH Labs achieves a purity standard of 85% for beta glucans, outperforming many competitors with lower purity levels.
• Studies show beta glucans can assist in clearing environmental toxins like mold and PFOA, thereby potentially benefiting cardiovascular health.
• Ongoing clinical trials are examining the effects of beta glucans on biological aging, utilizing advanced aging markers like Dunedin Pace and TruDiagnostic clocks.
• Research highlights immunosenescence as a primary driver of age-related diseases, emphasizing the immune system's role in longevity.

Notes

🎙️ Podcast Introduction and Host Overview (00:00 – 02:32)

• Dr. Jill introduces Resiliency Radio podcast focused on integrative and functional medicine insights.
• Promotes ‘The Doctor Patient' documentary now streaming on Amazon Prime, YouTube, and Tubi.
• Highlights products available at Dr. Jill Health.com, specifically Age Reversal Neck Cream for anti-aging skincare.

👨‍⚕️ Guest Introduction and Background (02:32 – 05:00)

• Dr. Chris D'Adamo introduced as research scientist and Assistant Professor at University of Maryland School of Medicine.
• Personal story: Inspired by grandfather who lived over 100 years and attributed longevity to diet and exercise.
• Professional journey: Got doctorate in epidemiology focusing on nutrition and aging, former Director of Research at University Center of Integrative Medicine.
• Personal connection to beta glucans: Used them to combat frequent infections while training as athlete in his 20s.

🔬 Beta Glucan Fundamentals (08:48 – 08:48)

• Beta glucans defined as polysaccharides found in mushrooms, seaweed, grains, oats, and yeast cell walls.
• Three main structural types with different functions: 1,3 linkages for immune function, 1,6 linkages for optimizing immune health, and 1,4 linkages for cardiovascular health.

🛡️ Immune System Mechanisms (12:22 – 16:20)

• Natural killer cells described as ‘natural born killers' of immune system, part of innate immunity.
• Beta glucans bind to specific receptors on immune cells: CR3 and Dectin 1.
• Mechanisms include increased IL-10 secretion, enhanced natural killer cell activity, macrophage activation for phagocytosis.
• Trained immunity concept: Innate immune system becomes reprogrammed through epigenetic mechanisms for long-term pathogen response.

💊 Clinical Applications and Dosing (15:05 – 21:05)

• Contraindication: Patients on immunosuppressants should avoid beta glucans.
• Dosing recommendations: 100mg daily for maintenance, 500mg-1g daily for acute exposure, 500mg daily for complex cases.
• Clinical applications span respiratory tract infections, cancer, and immune support across all age groups.

😌 Stress, Performance, and Mood Benefits (23:14 – 24:21)

• High cortisol from stress suppresses immune function.
• 2024 systematic review showed significant improvements in vigor, energy levels, mood, and anxiety reduction from beta glucan supplementation.
• Benefits likely mediated by lower cortisol levels and prebiotic effects on gut health.

🌱 Gut Health and Microbiome Effects (25:34 – 28:06)

• Beta glucans function as powerful prebiotics, reaching the colon intact.
• Gut bacteria ferment beta glucans to produce short-chain fatty acids that strengthen gut barrier.
• Clinical studies show increases in beneficial bacteria: Lactobacillus and Bifidobacterium species.
• GLP-1 production enhanced through short-chain fatty acids, supporting appetite regulation and metabolism.

🏭 Quality and Manufacturing Standards (31:42 – 35:38)

• BWH Labs maintains 85% purity standard compared to most competitors at less than 70% purity.
• Dr. Vetvika's research: Over 80 peer-reviewed publications on beta glucan with no commercial funding.
• Glucan #300 showed superior performance in phagocytosis stimulation and nitric oxide production.

🧪 Additional Health Benefits (37:00 – 39:31)

• Environmental toxin clearance: Studies show decreased cotinine levels and cortisol reduction in smoke-exposed individuals.
• Binding properties help clear mold toxins and PFOA chemicals from the body.
• Nitric oxide production enhancement suggests cardiovascular benefits beyond immune support.

🔍 Future Research and Longevity Applications (40:53 – 42:21)

• Ongoing clinical trial studying effects on biological aging using Dunedin Pace aging rate and TruDiagnostic aging clocks.
• Research focus on hallmarks of aging published in Cell journal, investigating how immune system affects longevity.
• Immunosenescence identified as key driver of age-related diseases and aging phenotype.

Transcript

00:00
Dr. Jill Carnahan
Hey everybody. Welcome to Resiliency Radio, your go to podcast for the most cutting edge insights integrative and functional medicine. I'm your host, Dr. Jill and with each episode we dive into the heart of healing and personal transformation. Join us as we interview renowned thought leaders, medical doctors and biohackers, interesting people of all sorts. Each week I bring to you the most interesting and important information for your health, for optimization and for longevity. Today is no different. I am super excited to talk about maybe the one of the most, maybe the least known powerhouses for helping your immune system in the era post Covid it find. I find at least in my clinical practice that a lot of people are suffering from cancer, immune issues, chronic infections, chronic complex conditions. And I won't go into all the details yet. 

00:52
Dr. Jill Carnahan
You'll hear about that in my interview. But I just want to say you want to stay tuned today because there's there is a powerful nutrient that you may be missing in your supplement regimen that is one of the most powerful things you can do to support immune system and even to fight cancer or prevent cancer. So stay tuned. We're going to be interviewing Dr. Chris Dando and I will introduce him in just a moment. Before I do, I always like to tell you guys about what's going on with me, a couple little blurbs. First of all, if you have not yet ran over to doctor patient movie.com and watch the documentary, it's now streaming on Amazon Prime. Please take a peek. It's about 75 minutes long. 

01:32
Dr. Jill Carnahan
You can also just watch the trailer for two minutes if you want to just get a sneak peek and see if it's of interest. I've been getting incredible feedback from you, all of you who've been watching it. It's now also available on Amazon prime in Europe. So if you're in Europe, you can watch it there as well. And it's doctor patient movie.com for link to all places. It's also streaming for free on YouTube and Tubi, so you don't even have to pay to watch the movie. So so check out drpatient movie.com and if you have not jumped over to Dr. Jill health.com I've curated a variety of great products and services for you there. All of the best quality nutrients for your regimen just for longevity, optimal performance, optimal gut health. You can search those topics and find some of my favorites. 

02:17
Dr. Jill Carnahan
And if you haven't yet taken a peek at some of the cool stuff I have at Dr. Jill health.com on beauty, this is one of my very favorites. It's Age Reversal Neck Cream and you can get this@doctor Jill health.com just look up the Age Reversal Neck Cream. I've been having more and more women. You know it's funny, I'm in my 40s and we can take care of our face and provide sunscreen, but I think our neck and this area often really tells our age. And I have been using this for a year and really noticing the difference in the lightness and brightness of my neck. So this is called Age Reversal Neck Cream. Check it out at Dr. Jill Health and that's D R J I l l health.com okay, let me get to the introduction. 

02:58
Dr. Jill Carnahan
Dr. Chris Dano is a research scientist and Assistant professor at the University of Maryland School of Medicine where he focuses on how lifestyle choices and environmental exposures impact health across the lifespan. He formerly served as Director of Research at the University center of Integrative Medicine and has led numerous clinical trials and studies on nutrition supplements, exercise, stress management and health coaching. He has authored over 100 peer reviewed publications, contributed to leading medical TEC textbooks and speaks internationally on integrative and lifestyle medicine. He serves as scientific advisor to several organizations and companies in the natural products industry and frequently featured on many media outlets. You are going to love this interview. So let's welcome Dr. Chris. Chris, I'm so excited to have you on the podcast. 

03:44
Dr. Jill Carnahan
I do so much with toxic load, infectious burden and all of these topics that we are all so familiar with and seem to be getting worse. But because these intersections at immune system, what I really am excited today to talk to you about is our immune system and specifically how beta glucans can really be a powerhouse. And I always on the podcast learn something from my guest. I know this will be no different. I'm so excited to really dive deep so that I understand the mechanisms. Before I do though, I always love to ask my guests a little bit about their story like how did you get into this world? What is your background and how did you kind of get to be a really an expert on immun and beta glucans and this kind of science? 

04:28
Dr. Chris D'Adamo
Yeah. Awesome. Well first, pleasure to be here with you. Look forward to our convo today. I really think beta glucan is the most underappreciated tool that we have, you know, when it comes to supporting our immune health. But as far as how I got into it, I mean like many in our field, it was a personal connection. So I had very long lived and vibrant grandparents with whom I was very close and one in particular, lived to be over 100 years old and was like lifting weights and playing golf and tennis, like deep into, like into his late 90s. And he was an inspiration for me and he attributed to like, you know, his diet, his exercise and, you know, some of these things I was just learning about at the time. 

05:08
Dr. Chris D'Adamo
So I went on and got a doctorate in epidemiology where I focused on nutrition and aging. So I wanted to bring the methods because we didn't know a whole lot about that type of thing, you know, at that point in time. I think we're still learning more now. Obviously now Beta Gu camp was actually even more personal as my own person. So I was an athlete and was pushing myself pretty hard, like deep into my 20s in the gym, was doing martial arts and playing basketball and these things. And I was getting colds constantly and like these just getting, picking things up that I had never really picked up before and was looking for ways to support my immune system and sort of dove into the literature on how could I do that. 

05:50
Dr. Chris D'Adamo
And Babu Cam was one of the ways that was able to tap into supporting my immune system and, you know, stopping all these infections. Now that I have a toddler too, it's even more important to safeguard where we can. So that's the story how I got into this field and functional medicine in general, root cause medicine, integrated medicine, you know, spent quite a number of years at the University of Maryland School of Medicine, directed the research at the center for Integrative Medicine, working with IFM now Elevation Lab and just looking, you know, have enjoyed working with so many in this space and learning and working and even into my own life too, as long as those, the patients that we work with. 

06:24
Dr. Jill Carnahan
I love that, Chris. And again, our paths have kind of crossed in ways and yet I haven't really got to sit down and really get to know you. So today I'm super excited to do that. Along with the people listening to the podcast, a couple of thoughts. Interesting. From my perspective, I've known Beta glucans as a powerhouse, especially in our complex chronic like patients with chronic infections like Lyme or mold related illness. And one thing again, I'm going to learn today way more about the science. But what I've seen in clinical practice is any type of chronic infection, especially you can never just treat it with antibiotics or herbs. You always need the person's own immune system to be involved. So one of the things that I always tell them is we need to get your immune system engaged in the process. 

07:07
Dr. Jill Carnahan
Because if we don't have your immune system helping us out, you're. We're not going to get it through that with just hitting it on the head like whack a mole. 

07:15
Dr. Chris D'Adamo
Right. 

07:15
Dr. Jill Carnahan
And often patients have more than one infection, so we need to not just target each infection, but this immune system. And so what I've known in the field is there's certain products and every one of them contains beta glucans of some form. And we're going to talk about even quality of different products and things in a few minutes. So you can tell us kind of what the best things out there are. But first, let's set the stage because many listening are just like, what's beta glucan? What is this? So maybe just like, what's the molecular structure basics, you know, and then how does it even work? Like, why is this such an immune powerhouse? 

07:48
Dr. Chris D'Adamo
Okay, yeah. You know, it's just, it's striking to me that people in our field even don't recognize, you know, and given the science that there mean thousands of studies, you know, hundreds of clinical trials, we just don't. I think the recognition hasn't been there yet, and hopefully we can help with that today and beyond. So beta glucans are polysaccharides, which just means that they're, you know, chains of complex carbohydrates that are found in a lot of foods and natural products. So things like mushrooms, seaweed, certain grains, oats and yeast, and they're in the cell wall of those, of those foods, and they have these potent immunomodulating properties. And there's different forms of these, you know, based on their structure. You know, it's actually quite a big and complex set of molecules. But, you know, there's ones that have, they call 1, 3 linkages. 

08:42
Dr. Chris D'Adamo
And this is important for, you know, viewers to understand, you know, what these different products are going to do. 

08:48
Dr. Jill Carnahan
I've always seen on the label is that the 1 dash or comma 3 beta glucan. So that is exactly. 

08:54
Dr. Chris D'Adamo
Okay, exactly. And you May, you'll see 1 dash 3, you can see 1 dash 4 and 1 dash 6, and they all have different properties, in some cases, quite different properties. So it's key to understand what they do. So the 1, 3 linkages, the 1, 3 are where a lot of the immune function is, like the immunomodulating properties. And we can talk about mechanisms a little later on if you like, because there are some that are actually specific in fact, there are receptors on immune cells that are really essentially specific to beta glucan, which is really fascinating. So that's the 1 3. The 16 is not as involved in the immune system directly, but it works with. So the 16 and 13 work together to sort of optimize immune health. Then you have. So those are insoluble forms. 

09:41
Dr. Chris D'Adamo
Then you have the 1 4, which is a whole different bow. Actually, that's not as much, really, not really much measurable immune activity. But what that tends to do is more on heart health. So if you've seen studies, we'll talk about some of them today that range from fighting respiratory tract infections or cancer and then, okay, also lipids and triglycerides. Like, that's kind of interesting. Two different, you know, very different things. That's the 1 4. So those are more on that, that cardiovascular side. So that's sort of the breakdown on the structure in a pretty simple way. I, I hope. 

10:15
Dr. Jill Carnahan
Oh, that's super helpful because again, I've seen those on the labels. And if clinicians are watching or patients are pulling their product up and saying, what kind do I have now, one thing I've noticed, it's interesting because we both have a background with the functional medicine realms. And what I've felt, I mean, whether it's rheumatology, neurology, gastroenterology, a lot of us as functional generalists kind of live in all these worlds. But honestly, I think maybe the most important path is immunology, like really understanding. And the more I think probably the explosion of the microbiome, innate immune system data. I can't think of any more important area of medicine than immunology. And I have had to become a kind of honorary immunologist and understanding, you know, tolic receptors and dendritic cells and all of these things. And I frame it now in functional medicine. 

11:02
Dr. Jill Carnahan
In my most complex patients, we're doing tests to determine T cell function, CD4, CD8 cells. We're determining natural killer cell function, and we're looking at, and there's ways to look at numbers and function and all these things. And we don't have to go into that, but maybe we talk just a little bit. For those who are kind of in deep of this as natural killer cells, There's a start there because those are a big one for fighting cancer. And in patients that have chronic lyme particular or chronic infections, they tend to be a big deal in that patient being able to overcome. And years and years ago as function medicine, doctors, we would even look at the number of natural killer cells if it was below 50 absolute, we'd say you're less likely to overcome this. Now we don't. 

11:44
Dr. Jill Carnahan
I don't know how true that is. I don't really count natural killer cells as a key indicator, however, they're big deal. Do you want to talk about maybe that and any other cells that are directly impacted by beta glucans? 

11:55
Dr. Chris D'Adamo
Oh, absolutely, yeah. The natural killer cells are one of the big ones. And I could actually pull up an image for you. I'm glad you brought that up in a few. But yeah, from a high level perspective, they are referred to as like the natural born killers of the immune system. So part of that innate immune defense of that first line of defense. So we know we got our innate immunity and our adaptive immunity. Innate is like what happens first short term and then adaptive is more learned things more like antibodies and so on. But natural killer cells are part of that innate immune system and really just go after pathogens, you know, and other, you know, all kinds of antigens, you know, tumor cells, infectious agents and so on and so forth. So they're a key part of that. 

12:37
Dr. Chris D'Adamo
And in fact, let me actually, I'll show, you know, I'll pull up a slide here just to kind of visually walk through how this works perfect with both in general and then specifically with beta glucan. So actually it's a pretty good time even to talk about, you know, these receptors that are on immune cells. So there we see a monocyte. So see beta glyco, beta glucan, as I mentioned, it's a big complex structure. It binds to these sites on immune cells, including monocytes. So we see CR3 there and DEIN1. These are essentially unique to beta glucan. CR3 in fact was initially called the glucan receptor because glucan was what would activates what binds to it and activates it. So when bigotan comes along and binds these receptors, for instance, this is one of the mechanisms. 

13:34
Dr. Chris D'Adamo
This will increase the secretion of IL10 which then there's receptors in the natural killer cells, which activates the natural killer cell to go after and kill whatever that pathogen is. So this kind of, this shows this part of this pathway. I will take this off here and then talk a little bit. Some other ways that it works with macrophages and other ones. And so those are involved in phagocytosis again by binding to these receptors, the CR3 and Dectin 1, it will activate the macrophages to. For phagocytosis, which essentially just, you know, engulfs pathogens. Yeah. And. And gobbles them up Pac man style. So, you know, this is. These are some of the ways that this works. 

14:19
Dr. Chris D'Adamo
So this production of different cytokines, you know, phagocytosis, you know, enhancing natural killer cell activity, which is one of the reasons why the effects on the immune system are pretty broad with this. You know, a lot of times things can be a little bit more targeted. But when you look at different kinds of cancers even, I mean, a lot of times, you know, different cancers are different disease processes, but when you broadly modulate the immune system like this, you know, you will have some of the benefits that we've seen in clinical trials. 

14:45
Dr. Jill Carnahan
So I love that. And just to reiterate so I've been. The more I've known about beta glucans, the more when I have someone with active cancer, I have them usually on beta gluc. Are there any. This is just a side path, but I know that some of our disease states, like maybe like inflammatory bowel disease, can be an upregulation of part of the immune system. Is there any contraindications of any certain conditions that we might not want to upregulate natural killer cells or the immune system? 

15:13
Dr. Chris D'Adamo
That's a great question that comes up quite a bit. I mean, the one situation clears of people on immunosuppressants, then you would want to stay away from this. 

15:19
Dr. Jill Carnahan
Of course. Yes. So like organ transplant patients. 

15:23
Dr. Chris D'Adamo
Absolutely. Yeah. You know, it's. There's been some interesting data because, like, biologically, it's biologically plausible that, hey, do we really want to. To increase the activity of natural killer cells in a situation where there's already kind of heightened immunity? There's been some recent papers that have actually shown that. That beta glucan can assist with autoimmune conditions. And part of this is likely due to the impact trained immunity, which is a pretty interesting topic. That's. And I'm not an immunologist either. I'm an epidemiologist. But I've sort of like. You had to learn this, I think, to really understand the way a lot of these. These products work. But with that, it's essentially. It's a form of, you know, a moment ago said innate immunity is what happens over the short term, and it's really not specific. 

16:07
Dr. Chris D'Adamo
Trained immunity is, you know, when there's some kind of exposure to some kind of stimulus, including, but not limited to beta glucan the innate immune system essentially becomes reprogrammed in a lot of ways. And this occurs through epigenetic mechanisms, so modification of histones and through metabolic so enhancing glycolysis. And what this ends up doing functionally is that these innate immunocells. I was talking about the macrophages, neutrophils, natural killer cells, they are reprogrammed and in a non specific way over a fairly long period of time. Not as long as you would have for adaptive immunity, which is specific. You know, you get antibodies to a certain pathogen. But what's cool about that is that it will just sort of, you know, in a lot of ways just reprogram the immune system in an advantageous way to better respond to pathogens. 

17:01
Dr. Jill Carnahan
Hey guys, I want to interrupt this show for just a really quick message. I don't know if you know yet about my book. Probably if you've been around you have seen this and know about this. If you haven't yet got a copy, you can get your own copy signed by me@readunexpected.com again readunexpected.com it has tons of resources for those of you going with complex and chronic illness. And I hope most of all that it's an inspirational story. You might want to take it to the beach, take it on your next vacation. You can also find it dictated by me recorded in the studio on your favorite audio device like Audible or Spotify if you have a Spotify membership. I think this is free. 

17:40
Dr. Jill Carnahan
So take it, take a peek, check it out, let me know what you think and let's get back to the show. That makes so much sense because I deal with a lot of patients, as you know, that have some sort of immune deficiency or chronic infection and autoimmunity. They go together, right? And they're kind of counterintuitive because you're like oh wait, how is one side of the immune system like fighting, you know, flu or viruses or something a little bit downregulated and yet they have autoimmune conditions and I've seen treatments like immunoglobulins, which is usually ivig actually do the just like you talked about with beta glucans where they downregulate the autoimmunity and upregulate the immune activity. So. So that makes perfect sense to me. 

18:19
Dr. Jill Carnahan
Just a side note because right now we're in the middle of summer recording this, but people listening might be listening in the middle of flu season or whatever. I'm assuming that beta GLUCANS are really great to fight, like you said, with your toddler, bringing home infections and stuff. Would it be something you take all the time or just on the onset, like flying or exposure or how would you actually take a beta glucan? 

18:40
Dr. Chris D'Adamo
Yeah, you know, there's both acute usage and more prolonged usage. You know, typically prolonged usage would be a lower dose. So many people will take, you know, 100 milligrams or so of a good product and take that even really throughout the year, given some of the. The other benefits. Some people will cycle it, you know, other people will take that. Now the acute. And this is how I, I love it, is when you are going to be exposed, if you're flying, as you mentioned, just going to a conference or, you know, that your kids are sick or you're at the gym, you know, whatever it might be. And there's. There's a lot of people on there sick or just during cold and flu season, you know, to increase that dosage. I mean, there's lots of studies. 

19:21
Dr. Chris D'Adamo
If you look at respiratory tract infections, there are many clinical trials in that area running across the lifespan. So even from kids, you know, so they've done. Something I've done with our little guy, you know, is to. Is to. You can, you can take them out of the capsule, put a little food and really have much of a taste, you know, through the kind of like young adult athletes. That's why I first got into it and then even older adults. So it's been across the lifespan, it's been shown to decrease the incidence of respiratory tract infections. Fewer, like, sick days, missed days, and those types of things. So there's a lot of good evidence for those purposes. You know, I think taking something in the range of 500 milligrams to a gram a day is a good thing to do. 

20:05
Dr. Chris D'Adamo
And typically, you know, you give yourself about a week. So when we're entering cold and flu season, a couple weeks say, all right, here's what I'm going to amp up what I take, and then you can back down, you know, once you get out of it. 

20:16
Dr. Jill Carnahan
Okay, that's super helpful. And in clinical practice, and I'd love to run this by you, because I don't know that I'm doing the right thing. But in my more complex, especially cancer patients, sometimes I'll give them up to 500 a day. Would that be appropriate in the science? 

20:28
Dr. Chris D'Adamo
Oh, yes. So there's, I mean, again, a lot of clinical trials have looked at Big OCan sometimes it's been injected, but also quite a bit of time it's oral. So 500 milligrams is actually like, that's a pretty solid dose. So that's. That's been well studied, you know, and they've looked at it for both solid tumors. So, you know, lung cancer, gastric cancers, breast cancer, and for, you know, also for lymphoma. So CLL, for example, and a 500 milligram dose, you can go higher, but that's a pretty good. A pretty good dose. Yep. 

21:00
Dr. Jill Carnahan
Okay, got it. So for the average everyday athlete or whatever, 100 a day long term is really safe. Maybe even 200 a day when you're jumping on a plane or getting exposed or you just know that your kids are all sick. Maybe 500 twice a day for up to a week. And then this middle range where someone's like, really dealing with a chronic complex issue, they could easily do 500 a day a little bit longer term, like if they had cancer or something like that. 

21:22
Dr. Chris D'Adamo
Exactly. Yeah. That. That's a pretty good. Pretty good. And then there's other things you can do too. We even got a little protocol of other things that we add in. Some of the other things you think of. Cd, zinc. 

21:31
Dr. Jill Carnahan
Oh, yeah, I got. My COVID protocol was C and D and zinc and quercetin and nac and I like. Yeah, use that for everybod. 

21:40
Dr. Chris D'Adamo
Exactly, exactly. That's gonna help for other things too, obviously. But yeah, that's. That's. And I tend to take it throughout. I'll take that higher dose kind of throughout cold and flu season, then this time of year, have. Have backed down. Just don't. Don't feel that I. I need it as. 

21:51
Dr. Jill Carnahan
Okay, so you mentioned in your story as an athlete, you know, and I think it's interesting because if I think about a lot of the athletes I know and trainers and, you know, patients who are sometimes that high level, especially if you are training for an event or something, is suppressed. Well, initially you get cortisol going up, but then you are kind of that. That cortisol is maybe suppressing IM or some people I see with say we're testing secretary iga. I see a suppression which is basically showing me there's some sort of a stressor in this person's life. So stress in the immune system. Do you want to describe, like, how that is affecting the immune system and why stress is a big deal for you, fighting off infections and how beta glucans can be helpful when you're under stress? 

22:33
Dr. Chris D'Adamo
Yeah, 100%. I mean you mentioned cortisol. So I mean think about it. When there's an organ transplant and we want to minimize the risk of rejection, we give high dose, you know, corticosteroids. Right. So you know, and to a lesser extent when we're in a high cortisol state due to emotional stress or physical stress. I mean, I think one of the things for me was actually back down on the intensity of stuff. Now if someone's like an elite athlete and it's their profession, then okay, you do what you got to do. But for a lot of us, I think we could actually get away with doing less. But that's another story for another day. But yeah, so by that excessive cortisol that's going to lead to diminished immune function and just a state of stress in general. 

23:14
Dr. Chris D'Adamo
I mean I think a lot of what we do now is like how can we, you know, for like trying to perform optimally, how can we manage that stress? So you know, one of the ways. So with beta glucan, how it relates to that. There was actually a really interesting systematic review of meta analysis published this year in the European Journal of Clinical Nutrition that looked at, I think it was like 15 or 16 randomized double and placebo controlled trials that looked at not your classic things like cancer or respiratory tract infections, but looked at vigor and energy levels and mood and found statistically significant and clinically meaningful improvements in all of those really tight confidence intervals which you want to see. So this is quite suggestive that there's something there and also been studies that have shown reductions in anxiety. 

23:57
Dr. Chris D'Adamo
And a lot of this is likely mediated by a combination of lower cortisol which we've seen in animal models with beta glucan supplementation. But also probably something have to do with the gut. I mean we know that beta glucan is a powerful prebiotic. So when you start having good things going on in the gut, you know, that's, we know how much that dictates what's going on in our brain and our, you know, just our overall health. But that's a pretty interesting area too if you want to talk about that. 

24:24
Dr. Jill Carnahan
Oh my goodness, gut is my favorite thing to talk about. Every listens knows I always bring it back to the gut. So yes, and I think just framing that is like we. I remember like microbiome wasn't even a word in the research like 20 years ago when I started and now it is hundreds of thousands of articles because we know the microbiome is actually this whole metabolic organ that's affecting our risk of diabetes and anxiety and mood disorders. And you, I could name 100 things that it's related to. So of course it relates to our immune system. And I always describe it as like, that's our first interface with the external environment, right, that tube that goes down. So this is a really ground zero for that immune interface. 

25:00
Dr. Jill Carnahan
So, yeah, talk to us a little about how beta glucans, that's really fascinating that they're a prebiotic because we know diversity. The more kinds of diverse microbes we have, the better our immune system. So maybe you could talk a little bit about how this interplays with the gut microbiome. 

25:15
Dr. Chris D'Adamo
Definitely, that's one of the exciting, you know, we look at probiotics, prebiotics, symbiotics and so on. So it's a really fascinating area. So the way that are helping in this respect is that they generally pass through the upper GI tract intact and make it to the colon, where a lot of good things start to happen. So basically the microorganisms in the gut will ferment these and they'll produce, you know, some of the, you know, as a prebiotic, they'll start to produce short chain fatty acids. So butyrate, you know, for example, which, you know, this feeds the colon cells, it provides energy for the colon cells, can help rebuild. You know, you mentioned this is the first interface we know of our immune system with outside, you know, whether it's foods or other things that comes in contact with. 

26:02
Dr. Chris D'Adamo
So in doing so, this helps build up that gut barrier. And you know, and so many people are suffering from gut barrier dysfunction, intestine permeability, leaky gut, whatever you want to call it. And you know, as we know, that manifests in all kinds of symptoms, you know, sometimes GI stuff, but skin autoimmunity, whatever the case may be. So by beta glucan's ability to help build that and produce these short chain fatty acids, we end up strengthening that barrier. And we've also seen in other clinical studies too, increases in probably maybe downstream from that by feeding the gut bacteria, increasing Lactobacillus species, Bifidobacterium species, and so on. So there's a nice relationship there. You know, I think we're, I think probiotics have a place for certain. 

26:51
Dr. Chris D'Adamo
But I think the more we can think about these prebiotic fibers, you know, the better off we're going to be in supporting multiple Domains of gut health and then everything that's downstream, I guess mostly upstream. Upstream directionally, but downstream, when it comes to the relationship of our health. 

27:07
Dr. Jill Carnahan
Gosh, love that, Chris. And so well spoken. It's so interesting because I just spoke in London on the gut brain connection, and when I was just, you know, doing the research for the presentation months ago, I was just again astounded at how important those short chain fatty acids are because they can produce GLP1, which we all know, the popular drugs for weight loss. We did. Many people listening, you probably know this, but if you don't, your body naturally produces GLP1. It's an appetite satiation. It helps with metabolism and all the things you see with the drugs, but we can actually make that ourselves. And part of that is when we have more short chain fatty acids, they produce this GLP1. So I'm assuming the beta glucan has a little bit of role in that as well. 

27:47
Dr. Jill Carnahan
Now, one little side tangent that I want to ask about. I deal with a lot of patients with Crohn's and colitis because I recovered from Crohn's many years ago. And one of the things I see is there's a panel of antibodies or anti yeast antibodies like anti saccharomyces antibodies and anti monosaccharide antibodies, and they predict the severity of Crohn's. But what they are is they're actually antibodies to yeast structure. And I've always wondered if for those, just those few patients, this is not super common, but for those who have antibodies to the structure of a yeast, would that be a potential thing we'd have to be careful about? 

28:21
Dr. Chris D'Adamo
You know, that's interesting. I would probably exercise some caution there. I'll look into that. I've not come across that before, but that may be an area. I mean, nothing's a panacea type. That may be an instance where that's called for, but I'll look into that. 

28:36
Dr. Jill Carnahan
Yeah, me too, because I'm just like thinking out loud and I have no idea. So. And you will have to come up with the answer and come back on and about that later. But now I know safety sourcing a lot of companies. First of all, one thing that I tell my patients all the time is you don't have to get products from me, but you want to make sure you have a reputable manufacturer. And I think in the day and age of supplements being, you know, on Amazon and at your local grocery store and stuff, the quality is a huge issue. I mean, I have seen patients come in with lead toxicity and all kinds of things from taking herbs from China that weren't regulated and they had heavy metals and many things. 

29:12
Dr. Chris D'Adamo
Things. 

29:12
Dr. Jill Carnahan
So I do always say, wherever you get them, make sure it's a manufacturer who actually does third party testing and all that. Let's talk about beta glucans in the industry. And like, why does quality matter? Where would you recommend? I guess I'll just give you the backstory too, because you and I met through Better Way Health, which I, I want to talk about specifically because I was astounded at some of their dedication to quality and bringing these beta glucans. So tell us about that. 

29:39
Dr. Chris D'Adamo
Well, first, what sage guidance you're giving your patients and others. This has been an area. So I've been teaching about dietary supplement quality for the last 15, 20 years and came with many of the same conclusions that you do. I mean, how to develop a discriminating eye. It's not just for beta glucan, but for all of them. Third party lab testing is key. You know, clinical research on the finished product is another key. I mean it's, you know, a good white paper can be helpful in providing some guidance. But, but it's nice to know that whatever we're consuming has been studied, put to the actual test. And we always tell medical students and others, you value shop maybe on your paper towels or sponges or something like that, not something you're going to put in your body. You really want to prioritize quality. 

30:20
Dr. Chris D'Adamo
But it's absolutely the case when it comes to beta glucans, without question. So some of the areas where the products differ, for one is in the sourcing specification. I'm not sure how much you've gone down that rabbit hole, Jill, but so it's to me. So I've been involved in raw material sourcing all the way through clinical trials of finished products. And I have been astounded at the discrepancy in the sourcing specifications for different products in the same space. I mean, if you look at things that when a product's being formulated, they'll look at things like the total molds and these kinds. They'll look at the anaerobic plate count, which is the number of microbes. 

31:01
Dr. Chris D'Adamo
And I've seen specifications that for the same ingredient will be a ousand, you know, CFU per gram is how it's measured to a million, you know, for the same one. So that's a, what is that, a factor of a thousand difference. So it's like you really have to, to choose wisely when it comes to this. So with Beta Glucans in particular, a lot of it's going to come down to what is the purity of the product and it's not linear necessarily. So you know, a lot of the, and actually I'll pull up a couple of images here too is that a lot of the Beta Glucan comes from the same place actually, but different companies require different purity standards of it. 

31:42
Dr. Chris D'Adamo
So that you mentioned that the Better Way Health Labs, because I've been in Beta Glucan stuff for quite a while, going all the way back to like Maitake Gold and this probably 15, 20 years ago. But I was astonished at how they have an 85% purity standard whereas most others are less than 70 or less even sometimes. And that is not like a, doesn't mean it's 15% better. It's more of an exponential. And I'm going to show some actual head to head studies here on this one second and I'll pull this up. I wish we had more of this in our space to be honest. I wish there was more head to head product studies. Just in general, Chris, that's one of. 

32:22
Dr. Jill Carnahan
The reasons why I'm sold out on the Better Way Quality because as you're pulling this up, one of the things, as I talk to you, much of the research has been done third party on Better Way Health because of their quality. Right? 

32:36
Dr. Chris D'Adamo
Absolutely, yeah. And that's what's so interesting about this. So this is. All right, let's get this in slide mode. Okay, so this is Dr. Vetvika is basically call him Dr. Beta glucan, recently retired but his career essentially and publishing and science was in Beta Glucan. He has over 80 peer review publications which is quite a bit on videocan alone. And he had no commercial funding for this research. And that's where there's nothing wrong with commercial funding for research. But it's like a step above even when this is done, you know, from federal funding or you know, just with the, whatever the universities provided to do this. So he led a lot of these studies, head to head studies. 

33:23
Dr. Chris D'Adamo
And you know, one that's pretty interesting, you know, I mentioned some of the studies have been injectable Beta Glucan and what he showed, he and his team showed in this one was that you know, the persistence. So the glucan number 300 is the BWH Labs product and it lasted effects up to, you know, a week, whereas others were two days and some even less than that. But what's interesting is that, you know, this question is oral, as efficacious as, you know, injection. And they found that it was in their study. So that answered sort of an important clinical question. But what is really interesting is this one. And this is an open access paper that anybody that's interested in this topic ought to take a look at. 

34:10
Dr. Chris D'Adamo
And these are the kinds of studies that I just wish we again, wish we had more of. Our team is doing one now for CoQ10 where we're comparing a bunch of different ubiquinol, GG, a bunch of these other forms. But that's exactly what Vatvik and his team did. You'll recognize some of these names here. And what's interesting is that just to walk you through this, yeah, the doses on the top here, so ranging from 25 micrograms all the way to 800 in this particular study. And this is looking at phagocytosis. So, you know, again, we mentioned that earlier the ability to stimulate phagocytosis. And these numbers are essentially just how much it stimulates it at each of these doses. Now the first thing that I noticed when I read this was, okay, well the glucan number 300 was the most stimulating at every dose. 

34:57
Dr. Jill Carnahan
Yes. Like clearly right away. 

35:01
Dr. Chris D'Adamo
Yeah, like head and shoulder is better. But what's so interesting about this is that even at the lowest dose, so this is a factor of 32. All right, so one 32nd of the dose, it was still getting more than most of the other products understood, 800. 

35:16
Dr. Jill Carnahan
I saw this crazy. 

35:18
Dr. Chris D'Adamo
Which is just amazing. So, you know, and you know, you're getting something powerful there. So this is what one of the types. And there's been lots of other markers. We won't belabor the point to it. Just the same with these other ones too. This is superoxide. And on production again, this was both in mouse and human cells. We see that the better way BWH labs was the most. And then also for nitrite oxide production, the same, you know, pretty considerable margin for these. So this is the kind of testing again I wish we saw more of. But that show that, you know, the purity isn't just for marketing or, you know, it actually has a profound effect on the activity. And there have been numerous clinical trials on the BWH labs. I like that too. 

36:10
Dr. Chris D'Adamo
You know, it's great to have an active product, but they've Done clinical trials looking at respiratory infections for cancer. A lot of these things too. So that meets my main parameters for what I look for in any kind. 

36:20
Dr. Jill Carnahan
Of product that's powerful and just for those listening. BWH stands for Better Way Health. If you're listening, we'll definitely have links to get more information. I personally, as a clinician have switched all of my beta glucans over to the BWH because of this data. Like, there's just no refuting the power. And I, I, hands down, I'm having really good clinical experiences with that. So. And I can know that what I'm giving the patient is pure and it works. I noticed on that, and I didn't realize this, but you had two outcomes. One was superoxide dismutase and one was nitric oxide. This is interesting because of course nitric oxide affects the immune system, but we think of it as more, at least for me, more of a cardiovascular opening blood vessels and stuff. So maybe that's one of the ways. 

37:01
Dr. Jill Carnahan
And you could speak maybe just a little bit, I guess. Does beta glucan have ability to increase nitric oxide? 

37:07
Dr. Chris D'Adamo
I'm assuming, you know, it's. Yes, I, you know, it's not been a main area of study, but if you look at again, some of those improved cardiovascular outcomes, which we also know that was largely triglycerides and lipids and so on. But yeah, it's another area where we see some promising data. 

37:25
Dr. Jill Carnahan
Amazing. That's cool because I was going to ask you what the future of beta glucans, if there's any other research, and that would be an interesting clinical question for me, is that one study, if it shows. And then sod, which is superoxide, disputes. I think about that genetic issue with patients exposure to like VOCs or chemicals in the air and ability tolerate smoke and fumes in that. And those two things don't to me seem directly related to the immune system. But if that does indeed have activity, those are pretty cool outcomes as well. 

37:53
Dr. Chris D'Adamo
It, it does. In fact, I'll pull up another study here. So that's. Give me one second, I'll get that pretty bad. But yeah, there have been studies of the BD of product that showed helping clear cotinine, which is, you know, one of the toxins that's in cigarettes and lower cortisol levels. So this is actually. All right, let's get this pulled up here. And I think about this all the time and I. Toxins are a. And there's, there's some good ways to get rid of them, including beta glucan. So this study here on the left, actually, again, this is also open access. So this looked at, you know, those that are exposed and it's just a sad thing. We see kids that are exposed to, you know, a lot of smoke. And we did see in this one decreased cotinine levels and cortisol levels. 

38:48
Dr. Chris D'Adamo
There's also been some studies, interestingly, that show that beta glucan through. Largely through binding properties that it has. That it binds. 

38:57
Dr. Jill Carnahan
So it's kind of like a binder like we use in mold toxicity. 

39:00
Dr. Chris D'Adamo
Yes, well, exactly. And there have been some recent studies that looked at that at mold clearance of mold and even the forever chemicals, the PFOAs, which are just such a. I'm constantly thinking about how I can, you know, me too. 

39:14
Dr. Jill Carnahan
Plastics and PFAOs. I'm like, if we don't get our environment under control, these two things are really dangerous, aren't they? 

39:20
Dr. Chris D'Adamo
It is, it is really concerning. So that's something. So there's been some interesting studies on the recent one for the PFOAs that. And again, it's largely due to some of the binding properties that they have. And you mentioned, you know, where's the next area? One of the areas we're actually leading a clinical trial right now is on aging. So you mentioned how longevity, you mentioned how the immune system is at the heart of so much. But that includes the immune system. So I'll pull up another one more show and tell. And I think we'll be finished with it. But the, you know, many of your viewers have probably seen the hallmarks of aging. Let's get this here. We already talked about some of the protocols. So have you seen this paper? It's a, like an update this. Yeah, really. Really just fascinating stuff. 

40:08
Dr. Chris D'Adamo
So this is like the, it was published in early 2023 that expanded these, this is in Cell, which is like one of the top medical journals expanded would have been done maybe 10 years before that into some other areas. But so, and I think all of these are important. I mean some of them are probably more foundational than others. But these are all. You see these different things here. Slept with genics, you know, downright nutrient nutrition, mitochondrial function. It's a big one, of course. And cellular senescence and some other interesting papers that show. It's actually, you know, immunosenescence that is driving, you know, A lot of these aging problems that we have a lot of the sequela of aging, whether it's age related disease or just some of what we consider the aging phenotype. So really interesting papers here and where we are going. 

40:58
Dr. Chris D'Adamo
So you mentioned the future. This is like the quite near future. We are you know about midway through a clinical trial where we are looking at healthy adults that are aging at an average rate or worse. So that Dunedin pace is this rate of aging. So one is considered kind of the average. What people do you rate you for each year of your biological, of each year of your chron age you're aging one biological year less than that is considered good. You know I think the best is like in the 0.6es, you know there's those aging Olympics. Have you heard about that or follow that at all? Yeah. So and what they're using actually is this true diagnostic which is pretty common in our space. What's you know it includes this to need and pace aging rate but a bunch of other things. 

41:48
Dr. Chris D'Adamo
These different aging clocks at the Horvath clock, specifically the immune age and then methylation of specific immune genes too. So in this study where were giving a gram of. I'm sorry we're giving two capsules of this for 12 weeks and we've got our 60 participants enrolled and we're going to have our results later in the year. But I think this is one of the directions where beta glucan is going to go is because we know now we're going to know you more but how important the immune system is for our longevity. So we're going to look at some specific mechanisms within that context. 

42:25
Dr. Jill Carnahan
Wow, that is amazing because we covered like environmental toxicity and immune system and gut microbiome and I came in knowing about the immune effects but I'm just even more profoundly surprised by all these other, even nitric oxide who knew that there could be a connection which again makes sense because the immune system uses nitric oxide to modulate. So maybe that's the effect but so fascinating. Chris, thank you again for all of your work in this area and for bringing this to light and even just coming on. You're so clear and concise and I feel like we've covered so much material. Is there anything else that we've missed or that is you feel like is important for people to know who are listening about beta glucans? 

43:06
Dr. Chris D'Adamo
I think we, I think you asked great questions and had a lot of great feedback from your own clinical practice. And I think we hit a lot of the main areas, I mean it's clear for cancer and immune function, but I think that the big wicket can really be helpful. I think some of these other areas is where I'm really excited about with longevity and aging and so on. I think it's just gonna be really neat to see when we give our immune system the tools to better fight, to retrain immunity, that we're going to see great rewards across the lifespan. So I think we hit a lot of it today. 

43:40
Dr. Jill Carnahan
Awesome, Chris. Well, thank you for your work. Thank you for coming on and if you're listening, of course we'll have all resources below, but we really appreciate you. Thanks for all that you've done in this field. Hey guys, Hope you enjoyed my interview with Chris. I found it to be fascinating and learned a few new things along the way. Who knew that beta glucans could contribute to nitric oxide production? How cool is that? Hope you guys enjoyed this episode. As you know, you can find all transcriptions and episodes on my website, jillcarnahan.com you can also find them on anywhere you are watch or listen to podcasts, Spotify, itunes, or you name it's going to be there. Wherever you're listening to this podcast. Could I just ask you for a moment to stop by? 

44:22
Dr. Jill Carnahan
Leave us a review, comment, let me know suggestions, questions, anything you have. I go in there and check the comments myself, especially on YouTube. So please do that. And if you haven't yet subscribed on YouTube, click that button now and we'll see you next week for a new episode. Episode.