Welcome to another enlightening episode of Resiliency Radio with Dr. Jill Carnahan! In this episode, we are thrilled to host “Dr. Gator” (Dr. Joel “Gator” Warsh), a renowned pediatrician who brings a wealth of knowledge and experience in the field of children's health. Get expert advice on encouraging healthy behaviors in children from an early age.
Key Points
- Raising healthy kids involves modeling heathy behaviors and asking questions to open conversations
- It is important to set boundaries on social media and screen time in children under 13 years old in order to help appropriate neurodevelopment
- Healthy parenting is about trusting your instincts and knowing you already have much of what you need to be a great parent.
Our Guest – Dr. Joel “Gator” Warsh
Joel Warsh aka Dr. Joel Gator of the popular parenting Instagram account is a Board-Certified Pediatrician in Los Angeles, California who specializes in Parenting, Wellness and Integrative Medicine. He is the author of the recently released book, Parenting at Your Child’s Pace: The Integrative Pediatrician’s Guide to the First Three Years
📢 https://parentingatyourchildspace.com/
📢 https://www.instagram.com/drjoelgator
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Dr. Jill Carnahan is Your Functional Medicine Expert® dually board certified in Family Medicine for ten years and in Integrative Holistic Medicine since 2015. She is the Medical Director of Flatiron Functional Medicine, a widely sought-after practice with a broad range of clinical services including functional medical protocols, nutritional consultations, chiropractic therapy, naturopathic medicine, acupuncture, and massage therapy.
As a survivor of breast cancer, Crohn’s disease, and toxic mold illness she brings a unique perspective to treating patients in the midst of complex and chronic illness. Her clinic specializes in searching for the underlying triggers that contribute to illness through cutting-edge lab testing and tailoring the intervention to specific needs.
A popular inspirational speaker and prolific writer, she shares her knowledge of hope, health, and healing live on stage and through newsletters, articles, books, and social media posts! People relate to Dr. Jill’s science-backed opinions delivered with authenticity, love and humor. She is known for inspiring her audience to thrive even in the midst of difficulties.
Featured in Shape Magazine, Parade, Forbes, MindBodyGreen, First for Women, Townsend Newsletter, and The Huffington Post as well as seen on NBC News and Health segments with Joan Lunden, Dr. Jill is a media must-have. Her YouTube channel and podcast features live interviews with the healthcare world’s most respected names.
The Podcast
The Video
The Transcript
225: Resiliency Radio with Dr. Jill: How to Raise Healthy Kids with Dr. Joel “Gator” Warsh
Dr. Jill 00:00
Welcome to Resiliency Radio, your go-to podcast for the most cutting-edge insights in integrative and functional medicine. I'm your host, Dr. Jill, and with each episode, we dive into the heart of healing with experts in functional medicine, integrative medicine, biohacking, and all kinds of fun topics, as you know well if you've followed us before.
Dr. Jill 00:20
Join us today with a new expert. I'm so excited to dive into his expertise in child health—”How to Raise a Healthy Child” is the title—and especially to talk about his new book. Our expert, Dr. Joel Warsh, aka Dr. Joel Gator, is a popular parenting Instagram account and a board-certified pediatrician in Los Angeles. He specializes in parenting, wellness, and integrative medicine. He's the author of the recently released book, Parenting at Your Child's Pace: The Integrative Pediatrician's Guide to the First Three Years. Welcome, Dr. Gator. I'm glad to have you on the show.
Dr. Gator 00:55
Thank you for having me on.
Dr. Jill 00:57
You're welcome. We don't know each other well, but we got introduced by a mutual PR company that is fantastic, and I'm so excited. When they reached out, I was just like, “Yes, this is a great, great topic for our audience.” What I'd love to start with is your journey into medicine. And then, how did you get into pediatrics specifically?
Dr. Gator 01:17
Going back to when I was younger, I grew up in Toronto, Canada. I, of course, had to play hockey and loved sports and things like that. As I was growing up, I started coaching my brother in hockey and baseball and realized I loved working with kids and then continued on working in camps and running camps. I guess from a younger age I found that I just loved teaching and being around kids. Then, when I went through school, I really loved science also. So that seemed like a natural blend. I went into medical school always to become a pediatrician because I felt that I could do the most good and help kids early on and get ahead of things. So that's what really led me into pediatrics. So now I'm an integrative pediatrician.
Dr. Gator 02:01
As I was going through training, I was never very woo-woo or out there [or into] integrative [medicine] when I was growing up. I had a pretty normal life, I would say, in terms of the things that I ate, eating junk food, going out to restaurants, and things like that. But I met my now wife in residency, and she's pretty holistic-minded. I also got a little bit frustrated through training with medications for everything, super short visits, seeing people go outside of the system and get better, seeing patients not get better, and giving out medications like they were candy. So that's what led me to start learning about integrative medicine and functional medicine. And, of course, once you start learning about that, you can't go back. And I've just continued on that trajectory from there.
Dr. Jill 02:43
Wow, I love that story. It's so common to all of us. It's like the virus—we get the virus of integrative [medicine]. Truly, most of us went into medicine to solve problems and to help people heal. So if we're truly open-minded and dedicated to that as a core, then “What really works?” Granted, I love conventional medicine. I'm an MD, so the same kind of story. I still use medications, I still prescribe drugs—all that stuff. But it's like my toolbox is bigger now, like yours. So we have more options. And we have more options that are maybe less traumatic, tragic, or toxic—all the T words—for our patients, especially when it comes to children. So I love that story because so often we see, “Oh, wait, there may be other solutions out there that we weren't taught in medical school.” And then when we open our minds to that, there's some pretty powerful stuff.
Dr. Gator 03:34
Right. I was just going to say: I agree totally with that. I'm not against Western medicine at all. I say it all the time. I think that's very key. There are so many amazing things that we have created, and we can cure things that would have killed you just a few decades ago. But especially in the last decade or two decades, we're way too quick to give medications. It's the first option often. And kids are on medications—most kids, like more than half. We're just seeing things explode that were never there before. Chronic disease rates are out of control. Like 50% of kids have a chronic disease. Autism is skyrocketing. Autoimmune conditions are skyrocketing. ADHD is skyrocketing. Everything is skyrocketing.
Dr. Gator 04:12
The solution to that isn't more medication. It can be helpful. It can be a band-aid. Some kids do need a medication; that's great. But most of the time you don't. And most of the time, there are at least a lot of other things you should try first or things you can do in conjunction with modern medicine. And I have found for sure in my practice that if you do think in that way, you could really decrease the medications you give kids. And you can sometimes reverse or turn around conditions that these families were told were for life.
Dr. Jill 04:41
Yeah. I couldn't agree more. One thing that we can start with—and I'd love to know your opinion and thoughts—is gut microbiome. We're finding more and more and more research on the gut-brain connection, the gut-heart connection, and the mood disorder connection. And I could go on and on. Pretty much every system can be correlated in some way to our microbiome health.
Dr. Jill 04:59
What's happened over the decades that we were in medical school and even right out of medical school is that there's been a frequency of prescription antibiotics, which disrupts the microbiome. And thank goodness even the conventional system is shifting away from quickly prescribing without knowing a good cause. What are your thoughts on the antibiotic use in children? Obviously, there's a time and place for that. How do you approach that with parents who might just be looking for a prescription and maybe need a little bit more education on why that's not always the best thing for the microbiome?
Dr. Gator 05:29
I think that's a great introduction to that topic, because the first thing that's so key is just what you mentioned—just acknowledging that it matters. I think that's something that's so important in modern medicine. I do think, like you said, that the concept of the microbiome is permeating into modern medicine. I think that's good. I think most doctors are aware of it, but I still don't think that mainstream medicine really thinks about it before they give a prescription. I think it's like, “Oh, your ear hurts; here's a prescription for an ear infection.” “Oh, you had a cough for a week. Okay, here's your prescription for that cough,” and maybe it's pneumonia.
Dr. Gator 06:02
I don't think that we give the respect that we need to the microbiome because, yes, sometimes an antibiotic can save your life. That's fine. But usually you don't need it. Most of the time it's viral. Most of the time, things will get better. And oftentimes, there are at least 5, 10, or 20 things you can try before using an antibiotic unless it's very serious. There are situations where it's warranted.
Dr. Gator 06:23
One of the big things I talk about in the book is: One of the most important questions you need to ask as a parent before taking an antibiotic is why; what is it for? I think that is so key. Especially if you go into an urgent care, they're going to pretty much always give you an antibiotic for any complaint that you ask for—ear pain, sore throat. They're going to do it just to cover their butts. I have almost never seen anybody come to my office after going to urgent care and not be given a prescription.
Dr. Gator 06:50
A lot of times the parents will message me like: “Oh, I got a prescription for this. Do you think I need to take it?” And I really think it's important that parents start to understand that doctors want to give you something a lot of the time. And if you're there, they feel like you want an antibiotic. You want something; you don't want to leave with nothing. They also want to cover their butt just in case it's that one in a hundred situation where something could go wrong. So they're going to give you that medication, even if you don't necessarily need it.
Dr. Gator 07:15
But if you ask the question, “Do I really need this? What are we treating?” then you get that next level of discussion. And a lot of times you'll be surprised. The doctor will say: “I'm not sure. It seems like it could be bacterial, but it's not so bad. So if you want to hold onto it for a day or two, maybe you can try” this or this “and then take it if it doesn't get better.” And if you do that, most of the time you never actually need to take the medication. Or they might say: “You know what? We did the test, and it's for strep throat, and I really think you need it.” Or, “We did an X-ray, and it looks like there's pneumonia, so we want to treat it.” That's a very different thing than, “Well, you have a cough” and just “Here's your antibiotic.” It matters. Research shows that even in the first six months if you have one course of antibiotics, it increases your risk for allergies, autoimmune conditions, and eczema. So it matters. It doesn't mean you shouldn't do it, but we shouldn't do it unless we really need it.
Dr. Jill 08:06
Yeah. No, I love that. So let's talk real practically. If parents are listening out there, say there's a parent coming in with their two-year-old child, maybe a low-grade fever. There are no red flags. There's no strep positive. You think maybe it's viral. What kinds of suggestions would you give that they could give some relief to their child who's maybe crying and fussy and not feeling great, but you're pretty certain that they don't need an antibiotic? What would you give them for advice first?
Dr. Gator 08:31
Yeah. In those situations, it obviously depends on what the symptoms are. But I would say in general, immune support-type things can be really helpful. There's a lot that has really great evidence that it can shorten viruses: Vitamin D has a ton of research. Vitamin C has a ton of research. Elderberry and zinc. These things are very well researched to help on most viral symptoms. So those are good things that you can think about: A multivitamin, an omega, potentially a probiotic. Those are the front lines, I would say, of things that you can usually take. There are other things too. There are homeopathics that you can do as well. But I think it's situation-dependent. But these are the basics that most natural crunchy parents, I guess, have in their home that you can just have just in case once you see some symptoms pop up.
Dr. Jill 09:17
Yeah. I love that.
The title of your book, Parenting at Your Child's Pace, speaks to maybe a different way of perceiving how we parent, so not just the medical piece. But tell us more. What does that title mean to you? And how did you delve into it in your book?
Dr. Gator 09:33
To me, one of the biggest issues right now in parenting is comparison. I feel like we're in this new world of information, and no one ever taught us how to live in it, no one ever taught us how to parent in it, and it makes it very difficult. Even in my not super long career, I have seen a shift to increased stress in parenting, [with] parents not trusting their gut and not trusting that they know what to do. And I think that's because there's just such an information overload that even little decisions seem so big.
Dr. Gator 10:04
What I mean by that is back in the day, maybe even 50 years ago, if you wanted to think about, “What do I feed my kid first and when?” you'd ask grandma. And they're like, “Oh, we did peas at six months.” Okay, great, so you do that, and that was it. Unless you wanted to go to the library and read a book, that was all that you needed to do. But now you have grandma's opinion, and then you have your friend's opinion, your cousin's opinion, the influencer on the internet, and then the article you just read. Half the time, one thing says the complete opposite of the other one. And it's like, “You should never give carrots first,” and the other one says, “You have to give carrots first.”
Dr. Gator 10:36
It puts parents into this place where it's very difficult to synthesize that information sometimes, and you don't trust yourself, and you're really comparing to other people on social media. And I really do think we need to get back to trusting our gut and focusing on our own family and our own kids, because you do truly know what's best. And it doesn't mean that you can't Google. It doesn't mean that you can't go online. But I think that we need to get the information, synthesize it for ourselves, and then, to the best of our ability, figure out what's the best thing to do and then just try that and trust our gut that we're going to know what's best. To me, that's what parenting at your child's pace is. It's really focusing back on your family and not so much on everybody else out there because they don't know your family as well as you do.
Dr. Jill 11:19
What a great answer, because I think this goes for sure for parents in your world, but really for all of us. And I love the idea that we really do know what's best for our bodies.
So often—even with me—with my adult patients, part of the therapy, a huge part of the healing is allowing that patient to be able to trust in themselves again where they've lost that contact with their own somatic signals of like, “Stomachache: what does this mean?” And then they go into a spiral of fear. And again, the same with a parent and a child. And they're like, “Oh no, what does this mean?” Whereas if we touch base, maybe that means we need to slow down, or maybe we ate the wrong thing, or maybe something really simple. But we start to relegate the authority to someone else. It'd be great if it was a clinician or someone like you or I who maybe has medical expertise. But even worse nowadays, it's more often an influencer who has no degree, no business giving advice out there, and they just have a large following. So it's very disturbing—the kinds of advice they're getting.
Dr. Jill 12:19
So how do you encourage a parent to really touch base with this intuitive sense?—because I love that at the core, we really, really do know how to heal. Our bodies were innately made to heal, whether it's us helping our children or us helping ourselves. But people have lost touch with that. So how do you encourage that reconnection to innate wisdom?
Dr. Gator 12:39
I always just try to remind parents that it's within us. It's something that is there, and it has always been there. And if anything, we have more information than ever. It's a less stressful time than ever. Yes, there are a lot of stresses, but a lot of the things that we stress about as parents are so much better than they ever used to be. We have access to information if we need to. We can call 911 if we need to. We have safety standards and seatbelts and helmets and pool guards and an emergency room—all these things that we never used to have before.
Dr. Gator 13:08
And the vast majority of decisions that we make as a parent are not life or death. They're not urgent. You don't have to always get it right the first time. We don't have to make every single decision be as big as I think we're making it to be. The key is to try to tune out some of that noise and to not let the internet scare you, I think, because everyone's like: “You have to do it this way.” “You have to do it this way.” “My way is the only way.” And we have to remember that people are almost always trying to sell you something, so their way isn't always the best way; it's just the way that they do it.
Dr. Gator 13:38
Also, in a litigious society, or just in general with the way things are, everything's so extreme, so you're trying to get attention. You're trying to talk about the worst possible scenario for everything. Like, “Oh, some gas.” Gas doesn't necessarily mean you have ulcerative colitis. It's one of the symptoms. So if you Google that and you see that, then it might make you really scared. But common things being common, it's usually mild. So you have some time, in general, for almost everything to trust your gut. Do what you think is best.
Dr. Gator 14:07
And then most of parenting is really just that circular watching your kids, seeing what they do, and then figuring out what works best. And you don't always know, but you have to trust yourself that you will know that you're either doing the best thing for them, or if it isn't the best choice, you're going to see that and you're going to make a change, and you're going to continually adjust as you go. And that's what most of parenting is. It's not about having the most money. It's not about knowing everything. Money doesn't buy you love. Money doesn't buy you the things that are most important when it comes to parenting. And certainly, nobody knows what they're doing before they become a parent. So you just figure it out as you go. Everybody does.
Dr. Jill 14:41
Gosh, what good advice! As you're speaking, I'm thinking of this thing that came across my social media feed not too long ago, and I just had to laugh of the extremity. It was a car flying into the water of a river. It's being submerged. And it's like: What are you going to do if you get submerged in your car and you can't get it out? Here's this device that you need to buy because if you get submerged in this car, this is the only thing that's going to get you out of there. I'm rolling my eyes, going: “How likely is it? I bet it's like a one in a million.” I don't know the statistic, but the idea of being submerged in a car has to be so small in percentage of possibility.
Dr. Gator 15:15
And then you're going to find that little cutter.
Dr. Jill 15:16
Right. And then, in your panic, you're going to have it in your car; you're going to find that. But of course, it was feeding on the fear of being submerged, which is like drowning or being burned—all these things that we have in natural fear [of]. And I was just rolling my eyes, going, “This is insane!” because there are people like: “Oh my gosh, I'm so afraid. I'm going to go buy that device.” And I'm like, “This is ridiculous.” And that's how it is with medical advice, with parenting. Like you said, you have a small symptom, you have a headache: “Oh, there's a brain tumor.” You have a little bit of gas and bloating: “Oh no! I have Crohn's or colitis.” It's just not true most of the time. So this sanity in parenting is really, really important, and not going down that spiral of fear.
Let's talk to the subset of patients—I say patients because parents are your patients too—the children. Let's talk to the parents.
Dr. Gator 16:06
Mostly, yeah.
Dr. Jill 16:08
Getting into pediatrics, you've got two patients every time.
Dr. Gator 16:09
Oh yeah.
Dr. Jill 16:13
For those out there who are a little bit more anxious about “How do we raise my kid? I want to be a great parent,” and all that—it all comes from a good source—how would you talk to them about that anxiety when it becomes obsessive or becomes so fearful that it really is interfering with healthy parenting?
Dr. Gator 16:28
I think a lot of it comes back to recognizing what's important for you and what's important for your family. And sometimes we need to take a step back and remember that healthy parents are the most important thing for our kids. And all too often we forget about ourselves. Especially when you're a young parent—young mom, young dad—we're not sleeping very much. Things are stressful in the best-case scenario, so anything that has to do with you gets pushed to the side. And I think it's so key that if you do identify that you're a little bit more stressed, you're a little bit more anxious, then that's something that is important to look into. I think you need to understand that that's real and that's important. And you work on yourself too, whether it's working with a therapist, working on strategies, or just taking the time to put yourself back into the equation. It's really easy to put everything onto your kids.
Dr. Gator 17:21
And I think that's great. I think good parenting [means] we put a lot of our time into our kids. But you also have to count too. Especially if you're in that situation where you're noticing you're getting a lot more stress, you're not getting what you feel like you need, sometimes you have to put yourself in and go hang out with your friends, go gardening, go for a walk. Whatever it is that works for you just to decrease that stress a little bit, I think that's really important.
Dr. Gator 17:44
And if you are a very anxious person, I think just like anybody else, working on that is really key because our kids see what we do, and they see our anxiety, and it feeds their anxiety. We have a huge issue with mental health at this point. It's a very, very big issue. So the best thing that we can do for them, especially with their mental health, is focus on ours too. That way we can have a common environment—as common as possible for them.
Dr. Jill 18:11
This segway is so well into another question I have for you, and that's modeling. I feel like parenting—so much of it—is doing the very best that we can to choose good habits, whether it's the kinds of foods that we eat, the amount of time we spend on social media, the hours we sleep, and just even in our relationships, whether we're co-parenting or have a partner or family or however that living situation looks like—even just relationship and communication. How important is modeling healthy behaviors, healthy relationships, and healthy communication to children's health?
Dr. Gator 18:45
I think it's one of the most vital things. We have such a chronic disease epidemic. There are so many things going on, whether you're talking about mental health, physical health, or both together. And it's not just the kids; it's the parents too. And a lot of it filters down. So if we're not modeling good behaviors or modeling behaviors that we want for them, there's no way that they're going to do it. You can't expect them to not eat the Oreo cookies if you are. You can't expect them to go for a walk if you are not. You can't expect them to not be on their phones or their screens all day if you are. You have to model those things. So if there are some priorities for you—what you want for them—you have to do it too. I think that's key. It's almost never going to happen if you don't do that as well.
Dr. Gator 19:29
So yes, I think it's really, really important to practice what you preach, especially in those arenas like healthy eating, exercise, and screen time. Those are big areas that our kids are watching us all day, every day. If you want them to make some changes, then you do it as a family. And I think that makes it a lot easier and a lot more reasonable. It's really unreasonable to expect your teenager to not be on their phone if you are. Or it's not really reasonable for them to not eat the Doritos if you have it in the house and you are.
Dr. Jill 19:58
Yeah, I love that. I think that's so critical. And again, when we transform ourselves, it trickles down to our loved ones, our partners. We know the statistics about the kinds of friends that we keep and the kinds of people that we are married to or are in partnership with. And those habits do equate to our own habits. Whether it's being overweight or underweight, or healthy eating or not healthy eating, or exercises, we are very similar in social circles, so it also affects our children.
Dr. Jill 20:27
Mental health: This is absolutely increasing—the proportion of increase in incidence. I think it was like a 400% increase in prescriptions for antidepressants, which is just a mediator to the amount of depression that's really out there. So let's talk to parents about their kids. What are some red flags that they might want to look for for depression and anxiety? When can they maybe have a talk with them or implement some diet changes or lifestyle changes? And when is it more of a serious issue when they need to get a professional involved? Talk about what parents need to know about their children's moods.
Dr. Gator 21:06
Yeah, great question, because I do think it is so important. And even before I answer that specific question, I think the bigger, more important question here is recognizing that this is such a huge problem. It's something that we have to get ahead of. You have to assume that your kids are a little bit stressed. You have to assume they're a little bit anxious. You have to assume there might be some depression going on because the numbers are so staggeringly high at this point that it can't be something that you just think: “Oh, it's never going to be my kids.” “Oh, it's not going to be my family.” It's like one-third of teen girls are thinking about suicide. It's really, really, really high. One in two kids—I think it's about 50% of kids—by the time they're 18 have a mental health diagnosis. That means that a lot of kids—most kids—have something going on. That's a diagnosis. But that's not just a little bit of anxiety, a little bit of stress.
Dr. Gator 21:55
I think that when you ask about “Should we approach this?” yes, you need to talk about this. We need to be checking in with them. We need to be making sure things are okay to the best of our ability. Obviously, teens don't always tell you everything, but the big key that I've always heard from the therapists is really just making sure you keep those lines of communication open consistently and continuously—even if about mundane, random things, whatever it is. But they're very unlikely to talk to you about important stuff if they can't talk to you about the unimportant stuff. Just checking in, making sure they're doing okay, talking about their life, being inquisitive—I think that is very important. So hopefully they will open up to you if something's going on.
Dr. Gator 22:34
And then, if we're talking about red flags, usually it depends on if it's a boy or a girl. But generally, they're stepping back from the usual things that they're doing. They're being more reclusive. Maybe their mood has changed. They're not wanting to do the things that they used to want to do. They're not eating. They don't want to go out with their friends. Those kinds of things. Also, when you get the younger kids, a lot of times it's more vague symptoms. For teens, stomachaches and headaches, and they don't want to go to school. So these are the kinds of things we need to be inquiring [about]—not just about medical reasons, but maybe there's something going on like bullying. These are just things that we need to be thinking of. It has to be in the differential. It has to be in our mindset of one of the reasons.
Dr. Gator 23:17
As a doctor too, this is something that's more and more important too: You never want to assume it's just a mental health thing, like a headache. It could be something like a tumor, like you said, but that's not the more common thing. We need to be making sure and asking the questions like, “What's going on at school?” [and] “What's going on at home?” because these are very common things that we see too.
So that is that part of the question. The second part—I forget what the second part was.
Dr. Jill 23:40
Maybe red flag. When should a parent be like, “Oh, this is really serious?” Let's talk to the parents about: When should they call a professional or seek other help outside of their family?
Dr. Gator 23:54
The most serious situation in medicine would be for a kid who's actively suicidal. If they're suicidal, they have a plan. That's something that is very urgent—something you should be going to the emergency department for and having them watch. If they are mentioning that they're suicidal but don't really have an active plan, I wouldn't say it's necessarily an emergency, but it's certainly extremely urgent. So you definitely want to make sure they're getting support as needed and probably want to get them seen right away for that to determine where they are. So that is, just from the medical standpoint, the most urgent situation. And if they're telling you that they're suicidal, then that's something you want to take very seriously because most of the time, if you get them the support that they need, you can move things into a different direction. But if we don't take it seriously, then that's, a lot of times, where we can run into some issues.
Dr. Jill 24:43
Very, very good. I just want to make sure parents hear that and feel supported because there are resources out there, and sometimes it feels lonely when you're there and you don't know what to do.
Dr. Gator 24:51
Can I say one more thing about that?—because I think there is one more very important piece. One of the things you hear a lot of in the discussion is talking about these kinds of things and some of the concerns that parents have around, “Well, if you talk about suicide, then they're going to do it or they're going to make them more likely.” All of the research I've ever seen says that's not true. It doesn't say that if you bring it up, if you talk about it, if you talk about their feelings, that's going to create a situation to which their child is suicidal. Basically, it's always someone who's not having discussions. They're not talking about it. They're feeling like they're alone. They're feeling like they can't talk about it. That's a much, much, much more common scenario for suicide and those kinds of situations where it gets to that severe point.
Dr. Gator 25:33
Anybody that I've ever seen talk about this who's a researcher or a therapist, they always say it's better to talk about it. It's better to be in the open if you have concerns. Don't feel like you talking about it or bringing it up is going to create the situation, because if it's there, it's there, and talking about it is what's going to be the most helpful. Or at least you can open up the discussion to get them the help they need.
Dr. Jill 25:53
I could not agree more. I love that you said that. And even as physicians, the same thing. We're advised we need to ask these questions—I've done it many times in clinical practice—even saying as much as, “Do you have a plan? What are you thinking?” because those specific questions help guide the treatment and the help.
Dr. Jill 26:10
One thing that's, I think, closely related is the rise in social media. The rise in “I'm not enough” or the comparisons and all the things that come with that. And even just the dopamine hits, the screen time—I don't know if you read Dopamine Nation by Anna Lembke or if anyone listening has seen The Social Dilemma. There have been a lot of things lately. That's a documentary that brought to light some of the real, real risk and real addictive… These social media companies use the neuropsychology of addiction to program. So this is very real; it's very validated. And we see it in adults and children. But I think the children are more susceptible because there's such a pressure to have the phone, to be on the phone, to talk late at night. And I think it's affecting sleep patterns. I think it's affecting the self-esteem and ego. I think it's affecting the comparisons.
Dr. Jill 26:56
And what you pointed out [is that] so often when patients are feeling depressed and suicidal, there's a feeling of “I'm totally alone; I'm isolated; I'm not enough,” and the comparison. Talk a little bit about: How does social media actually make this problem a worse problem? And how can parents support their children so that they aren't totally off the phone and isolated but also set limits appropriately for their child?
Dr. Gator 27:22
Social media and screen time in general are a big problem right now. I'm very thankful this year. This is one of, I think, the best parts of this year so far: It really has become a major discussion. This year, I think, Jonathan Haidt's book—that was the other one. You mentioned the other good ones. But I think Jonathan Haidt's book this year, The Anxious Generation, really brought this to the forefront. And there has been more conversation than I've ever heard about social media and working our way backward. And I do see the pendulum swinging a little bit, which I think is really good.
Dr. Gator 27:52
Again, this goes back to: We have a huge issue. Mental health is a massive problem, and basically all of the research shows that this social media is causing harm to our teens. It's causing problems in school. It's decreasing their ability to focus in school. It's decreasing our ability to sleep well. It's increasing stress. And the places that have decreased it or removed social media from younger kids see huge benefits very quickly. I think that's almost common sense. It's like, if you're not focused on something all day, you could focus better in school. If you're not stressed about everything going on in the world, then you can be more focused on what's right in front of you and talking to your friends around you.
Dr. Gator 28:30
I'm not against social media. I'm not against screens. They're not going anywhere. But we're on them way too much. The average teen is on seven to nine hours of screen time a day, which is insane. It doesn't mean that you can't do your homework on a screen [or that] you can't watch a show every now and again. That's fine; we all did. But it's so beyond that at this point. And like you said, the companies know what they're doing and have known what they're doing for a long time and are trying to addict everybody, and they did. And we have to push back a little bit.
Dr. Gator 29:01
I think if you have a child who doesn't have screens yet or doesn't have social media, we need to push it back as long as we can. I think that's helpful, and we're moving in that direction. If you have a middle-aged teen, 12–16 or 17, then maybe we give them flip phones instead of something with a full screen so that they can get a hold of you if there's an emergency but that they don't have access to the internet all day, and maybe just on their computer or whatever. They don't necessarily have no social media, but they have some minimal access or no social media. I think the research shows that's better; it's just hard.
Dr. Gator 29:37
But I think that as more families start to push their kids away from it, then it's not going to be the uncool thing; it'll be the normal thing. It's harder when the kid is the only kid. I think that's tough. But if we can make the goal like what Jonathan Haidt is saying, where we make enough of a minority or even a majority of kids to not be on it, then it'll be fine. Most kids don't want to be on social media. A lot of kids do it because they feel like they need to, but they know it keeps them stressed. And I think if they didn't have to be on it and they didn't feel the pressure to be on it, then a lot more kids would be okay using it a little bit more minimally.
Dr. Gator 30:11
I think we have to be mindful that we love to be stressed. Even social media, I don't know why, but they know that the algorithm is pushing us towards those things. It doesn't have to be. It didn't used to be that way. I remember when social media started; it was like hanging out with your friends, seeing puppy videos, funny videos. It wasn't that stressful then, and it just seems like it is now. Maybe the companies will change the algorithm over time, but at least we can do it ourselves. We can realize what's going on and either curate our feeds or just use it a little bit less. And I think that's something that we can do. But as a parent, especially at home, I think it's time that we start to put some boundaries, like everything else that we do for parenting, and be okay putting some boundaries on these things because it's so clearly affecting our mental health and their mental health that it's time that we're okay with it.
Dr. Jill 30:58
Yeah, I love that. And some things, just real practical, that I've done that have been helpful are the “Do not disturb” [and] things that you can use. You can really limit. For me, and really anyone—we know this from the dopamine pathways—those alerts/notifications, I literally have nothing that's notified on my screens. I go in once in a while and check something that I want to do in my time, but I don't get notified. This is even during my workday—I'm sure for you in clinic as well—my phone is off. I'm not doing texts. And it's so great because I can really focus on the patients and do my thing, or if I just want to write or if I want to be in those places. And I think [it's about] modeling as parents but also encouraging our children to take those breaks.
Dr. Jill 31:39
I just heard Liz Gilbert talk. From Wednesday night at like 10 p.m. till Friday morning, she puts her phone in a safe. It is totally inaccessible. She calls it the Sabbath. And I think a lot of people are doing that. But I really, really love that because that will break the cycle. So if we could model that as parents and then talk to our children, maybe it's even just a few hours in the evening or at the dinner table, no phones, or those kinds of things, they really, really do make a difference.
Dr. Jill 32:06
In our last few minutes, I just want to talk about Parenting at Your Child's Pace. I want people to be able to get this book, so I want to know where we can find that. But if you had to give a synopsis of some of the most important information there and why people should get a copy of the book themselves, give us a little summary here at the end about your book.
Dr. Gator 32:24
Sure. The big reasons why I wanted to write the book were number one, the stress piece that we talked about. I feel like parents are more stressed than ever, so I wanted to write a book in a way that tried to help de-stress parents, comparing the past to the present and going through all the big questions that parents have that I get every day in the office. Most of the books that are parenting books these days are written by therapists or moms, not really by pediatricians anymore. A lot of the pediatricians write health books. Dr. Song has a great new book. It's more about health and wellness and those kinds of things, not so much the potty training and the other things. So I wanted a book that was about that but [to] synthesize the information to help parents think through it. So that was one big piece.
Dr. Gator 33:01
And the other big piece was the health aspect, because I feel like the things that we mentioned with chronic disease are such a big issue. Something I always wanted to do was get ahead of it. I wanted to prevent disease, and parenting books don't really talk about that because they're written by therapists—moms for the most part. They're great books, but a doctor has a different training and a different viewpoint. And a lot of the touchpoint for parents in the first few years is the pediatrician; it's not really a therapist or other practitioners like that. So a lot of the questions do come through the lens of health.
Dr. Gator 33:31
And I really started this book from that lens, talking about chronic disease, talking about the foundations of health, stress, sleep, environment, toxins, diet—those kinds of things. And I think that's very unique to a book. And especially for an integrative-minded or holistic-minded parent, I think it's something that they'll really enjoy because you get the regular parenting stuff, but it's a mixture of that with health. And I think that's really important right now with the direction that we're going so we can get ahead of things. Think about some of these basics and really set up their life for success to help them be the most resilient.
Dr. Jill 34:01
I love that. And where can people find you, [learn] more about you, and get your book?
Dr. Gator 34:06
They can find me on Instagram or X: @drjoelgator. And you can find the book everywhere that books are sold, Amazon, or ParentingAtYourChildsPace.com.
Dr. Jill 34:15
Perfect. Awesome. Well, Dr. Gator, thank you for being a light in the world for parents and for good—a guide. I love that you have this new book. I hope people will go out and grab a copy. And I hope that if you're listening out there and you're a parent, this was helpful information. I sure appreciate you coming on today.
Dr. Gator 34:30
Thanks for having me on.
Dr. Jill 34:31
You're welcome.
And thank you, guys, so much for tuning into another episode of Resiliency Radio. I hope you enjoy it. As you know, you can find all the episodes on my website, JillCarnahan.com, along with transcripts and audio, or anywhere you listen to podcasts—iTunes, Spotify, YouTube, wherever. Please do like, subscribe, and share this so that we can get more information out. And we will see you next week.
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