Breast cancer is a topic that affects millions of women worldwide, and this conversation is packed with valuable insights and information that every woman should know. Dr. Jenn Simmons, an expert in the field, shares her expertise and sheds light on the latest advancements in breast cancer prevention and treatment.
Key Points
- Key things every women diagnosed with breast cancer needs to know now
- Why routine mammograms may be causing more harm than good and what your best options for low-risk imaging are
- Toxic load and environmental chemicals and why they may be the biggest risk for breast cancer in young women
Our Guest – Dr. Jenn Simmons
Dr. Jennifer Simmons is a prominent board certified breast surgeon in Philadelphia where she was the Chief of Breast Surgery and Director of the breast program at Einstein Medical Center Montgomery. With fifteen years of experience in the field of breast disease, Dr. Simmons received the 2016 top honors Founders Award from the Living Beyond Breast Cancer organization for improving the lives of women with breast cancer. Always on the forefront of medical advances in breast surgery, Jenn has been named TOP DOC six years in a row by Philadelphia Magazine, and also in Main Line Today 2018 and Suburban Life. Her warmth and compassion for women’s health and wellness is also evident on-camera. Reporters and producers turn to Dr. Simmons for breaking medical breast cancer news.
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Dr. Jill Carnahan is Your Functional Medicine Expert® dually board certified in Family Medicine for ten years and in Integrative Holistic Medicine since 2015. She is the Medical Director of Flatiron Functional Medicine, a widely sought-after practice with a broad range of clinical services including functional medical protocols, nutritional consultations, chiropractic therapy, naturopathic medicine, acupuncture, and massage therapy.
As a survivor of breast cancer, Crohn’s disease, and toxic mold illness she brings a unique perspective to treating patients in the midst of complex and chronic illness. Her clinic specializes in searching for the underlying triggers that contribute to illness through cutting-edge lab testing and tailoring the intervention to specific needs.
A popular inspirational speaker and prolific writer, she shares her knowledge of hope, health, and healing live on stage and through newsletters, articles, books, and social media posts! People relate to Dr. Jill’s science-backed opinions delivered with authenticity, love and humor. She is known for inspiring her audience to thrive even in the midst of difficulties.
Featured in Shape Magazine, Parade, Forbes, MindBodyGreen, First for Women, Townsend Newsletter, and The Huffington Post as well as seen on NBC News and Health segments with Joan Lunden, Dr. Jill is a media must-have. Her YouTube channel and podcast features live interviews with the healthcare world’s most respected names.
The Podcast
The Video
The Transcript
208: Resiliency Radio with Dr. Jill: The Smart Women’s Guide to Breast Cancer with Dr. Jenn Simmons
Dr. Jill 00:00
Hey guys, I am so excited to announce that the movie that you've been waiting for, the documentary Doctor/Patient, is now available for rent or purchase at DoctorPatientMovie.com. Check out the trailer here.
00:13
Dr. Jill: When I really knew something was wrong, was when I started having trouble walking up the stairs. I was supposed to be grateful and happy and healing and well and thriving, but I did not feel that way. I was so sick. Like always, I wanted to find an answer, and I had to figure it out. And I had to figure it out to save my own life. So I dove in.
00:38
James Maskell: Jill is the leading voice in biotoxin illness and chronic conditions that are driven by toxicity.
00:43
Bree Argetsinger: Oh my gosh, you're dealing with mold? You have to work with Dr. Jill Carnahan.
00:47
Patient 1: Dr. Jill is the first person that actually began to shed some light on the problem.
00:53
Dr. Jill: What I do is listen to the patient, and we together talk about what else is possible.
00:59
Patient 2: I don't know why I'm crying.
01:02
Patient 3: She saved my life.
01:06
Dr. Jill: The deepest lessons and most profound insights come in the suffering, come in the dark moments. Self-compassion is the healing transition that shifts something inside of us. It's actually the thing that we need most in order to heal.
01:26
Narrator: Doctor/Patient—available now at DoctorPatientMovie.com.
Dr. Jill 01:36
Welcome to Resiliency Radio, your go-to podcast for the most cutting-edge insights in integrative and functional medicine. I'm your host, Dr. Jill, and with each episode, we dive into the heart of healing and personal transformation. Join us as we connect with renowned experts, thought leaders, and innovators who are at the forefront of medical research and practice, empowering you on knowledge and inspiration in your optimal health journey.
Dr. Jill 02:01
Hey guys, if you haven't heard, of course your head is probably in the sand, but my new movie, Doctor/Patient, is out and available for streaming anywhere you want to watch. Just go to DoctorPatientMovie.com. I am looking forward to you checking that out and, most of all, just giving me feedback and sharing it with those you love or anyone who needs a little encouragement.
Dr. Jill 02:21
Today I am so excited for my guest. Dr. Jennifer Simmons is a prominent board-certified breast surgeon in Philadelphia, where she was the chief of breast surgery and director of the breast program at Einstein Medical Center in Montgomery. With 15 years of experience in the field of breast disease, Dr. Simmons received the 2016 top honors Founders Award from the Living Beyond Breast Cancer organization for improving the lives of women with breast cancer. Always on the forefront of medical advances in breast surgery, Jenn has been named top doctor six years in a row by Philadelphia Magazine and also in Main Line Today 2018 and Suburban Life. Her warm, compassionate, healing for women's health and wellness is also evident on camera. Reporters and producers turn to her for breaking medical breast cancer news.
Dr. Jenn, thanks for coming on the show!
Dr. Jenn Simmons 03:11
Thank you for having me and for reading my bio, which is from like 10 years ago. I haven't heard that one in a while.
Dr. Jill 03:23
I'm super excited because you've got a new book out. We're going to be talking about that. Give us the title, and then we're going to dive in.
Dr. Jenn Simmons 03:30
Yes. The Smart Woman's Guide to Breast Cancer is out. I wrote this book because I spent all these years as a surgeon. As a surgeon, you really help the person in front of you, but it's hard to help millions of people unless you have a way of reaching millions of people. So, my book is all about giving women the power and the ability to decide what is best for them and also educate them in a way that is not happening. I know it's not happening because I was on the forefront of that for many, many years.
Dr. Jenn Simmons 04:13
We think that we're giving people an opportunity to make an informed decision, but what's happening is they're really making a rushed decision. They're in a heated rush. They're so scared. There's so much pressure. They don't understand the treatments. They don't even understand the diagnosis or the disease.
Dr. Jenn Simmons 04:33
I wanted people to understand. I wanted people to be able to know what breast cancer is and what it's not. I wanted people to understand the conventional treatments, but more importantly, what can you do for you to make that outcome better? What can you do for you to achieve your best health after a breast cancer diagnosis? When I left surgery for functional medicine in 2019, I did it because I realized that our conventional medical system is broken. It's broken.
Dr. Jenn Simmons 05:08
That is not to say that there's no value within the conventional medical world. There certainly is. And I'm not taking away from that or detracting from that. But there's a time and a place. And for most of the things that we are using that conventional medical paradigm for, it doesn't work. It doesn't work in the area of chronic disease. And nowhere is it better demonstrated than in the breast cancer population.
Dr. Jill 05:35
Wow, I love that, Dr. Jenn, because you and I are so aligned.
And I think you know a bit about this, but one of the reasons I am so excited to have you here is that 20+ years ago, at the age of 25—literally days after my 25th birthday—I was diagnosed with aggressive ductal carcinoma. So I have been that patient. And I love what you said. I want to dive into this because one of the things that I now share with patients and [how] I felt as a breast cancer patient when I was told my diagnosis was the rush to make decisions. For my history, I was a young woman. At that time, I was one of the youngest ever diagnosed in the Chicago area. Now, sadly, you know how it goes; there are [females who have it at the ages of] 16, 18, 22, 25, [which] is not as uncommon as it used to be. But at that time it was an aggressive ductal carcinoma at that age.
Dr. Jill 06:26
I was pushed pretty hard to decide on incredibly aggressive treatments. What I ended up doing was three-drug chemotherapy, multiple surgeries to get the clean margins, and radiation. I also did, thank goodness, some things to help heal naturally—nutritional supplements, diet, lifestyle, prayer, meditation. But I'll never forget that pressure to make a decision. And I resisted. I was like: “I am going to take my time and make the right decision, because I never want to go back and say, ‘What if I would have?'”
Dr. Jill 06:55
And I want to hear your perspective, so I'll stop talking in just a moment. But what I wanted to say is that I'll never forget the pressure I felt and then the resistance I had to put up to say: “No. I'm going to take a week or two or three or four”—whatever time I needed. I think it took me three weeks to make a decision. “I'm going to research, and I'm going to look at all the data at this moment and make a decision. And I will never ever, ever, ever go back and say, ‘What if…'” because I knew that would lead to dissatisfaction for the rest of my life. So even though I had toxic, toxic chemotherapy that has affected my immune system to this day, I have no regrets.
So tell me, what do you see with patients? Is that common—that pressure to decide and the fear? It's driven by fear.
Dr. Jenn Simmons 07:35
One-hundred percent. It's so driven by fear. And I just wanted to say that in the very beginning of my book, I say the 12 things that you should know right now. I say: “It's okay at this point if you breathe a sigh of relief. Take a pause. Get some perspective. You can handle this. And here are the 12 things that you need to know right now. Nothing else is urgent. It may feel that way. Breast cancer certainly feels like an emergency. But for most, the emergency is an emotional one.”
Dr. Jenn Simmons 08:17
The problem is that our conventional medical system is taking advantage of that emotional emergency. They are taking advantage of that place that you're in, of fear and vulnerability. We have, unfortunately, farmed out our health to people who don't know how to make us healthy. We've farmed out our health to people who are incapable of making us healthy based on the information that they have. I know this because I went to one of the finest medical schools in the country. I know what I know. I know how I practiced for 15 years. And believe me, I loved my patients. I wanted to help. I wanted to change the world. I wanted to make a difference in medicine. I wanted to make a difference in the area of breast cancer.
Dr. Jenn Simmons 09:14
I come from a breast cancer family. No one comes to their place without a reason, and mine is no different than anyone else's. I have a pain-to-purpose story just like everyone else. I was born into this breast cancer family where nearly all of the women in my family get breast cancer. The exception is my mother, who had colon cancer.
Dr. Jenn Simmons 09:36
When I was growing up, I had a cousin. Her name was Linda Creed. She was a singer-songwriter in the 1970s and 1980s. She wrote all the music for the Spinners and the Stylistics. She was the queen of Motown Sound in Philadelphia. She was brilliant, beautiful, and larger than life; she lit up a room when she walked in. She wrote 54 hits—54 hits! Her most famous song was “The Greatest Love of All.” She wrote that song in 1977 as the title track to the movie The Greatest, starring Muhammad Ali. But it really received its acclaim in March of 1986, when Whitney Houston would release that song to the world. At that time, it would spend 14 weeks at the top of the charts. Only, Linda would never know, because Linda died of metastatic breast cancer one month after Whitney released the song. She was 37 years old. I was 16 years old when my hero died.
Dr. Jenn Simmons 10:35
Her life and ultimately her death gave birth to my life's purpose. I did the only thing I knew how to do because I never wanted another woman, another family, or another community to have to suffer the way that mine suffered. So I went to medical school. I became a doctor. I was the first doctor in my family. But by golly, I was going to change this!
Dr. Jenn Simmons 11:01
I became a surgeon. I became the first fellowship-trained breast surgeon in Philadelphia. I did that really well and for a really long time. I did it long enough for my aunt to be diagnosed. I did it long enough for my mother to be diagnosed with colon cancer. And I was about 15 years into my career, head of the department, running the cancer program for my hospital. A wife, a mother, an athlete, a philanthropist—I had all these balls in the air. I think I'm an expert juggler until the day when everything comes crashing down for me. I go from probably being one of the most high-functioning people you've ever met in your life to “I can't walk across the room because I don't have the breath in my body.” I go to see my friend, colleague, and physician. He tells me that I need surgery, chemo, and radiation, and that I'm going to be on lifelong medication.
Dr. Jenn Simmons 12:06
Believe me, I appreciate the irony. These are things that I say all day, every day, without hesitation or reservation. But when these words are coming at you, they take on a whole new meaning. It was the first time that I ever really asked why. “Why is this happening? Why is this happening to me? Why do I need that? How is that going to help me? Is it going to cure me? Am I going to have to worry about it again? Is it always going to be lurking over my shoulder?”
Dr. Jenn Simmons 12:40
Now, these are questions that I got asked all day every day, and I would answer them in the way that I was trying to answer them: “Oh, it's multifactorial. There's nothing you can do to prevent it. There's nothing that you can do to reverse it.” And we practice—and I'm guilty of this, so I'm not criticizing—this paternalistic medicine: “Don't worry your pretty little head. This is what you're going to do: Follow my instructions, and hopefully, it'll be okay.” And that “hopefully” is a big question mark.
Dr. Jenn Simmons 13:18
Also, when we say it's going to be okay, what we mean is that we're going to tell you the statistics. There are five-year survival statistics. Five years. Five years. Five years to a 25-year-old—what does that mean? Nothing. Nothing. For me, I was 46. Five years to a 46-year-old with little, tiny kids at home?—because I didn't have my kids till I was 37 and 40. Five years? Come on! I'm going to look at my three-year-old and say, “Don't worry; Mommy's going to live five years”?
Dr. Jenn Simmons 13:59
I asked questions, didn't get answers, and refused treatment. My friend told me I was going to die, just like I told thousands of women before who said: “What will happen to me if I don't treat?” I would tell them, “You will die of your disease.” But there was something—there was something inside of me that said: “There's more. Go find it.” And I did.
Dr. Jenn Simmons 14:33
I found myself first looking towards nourishment because, as a physician, we get almost no education around there. At that time in 2016, I went to Dr. Google, which was somewhat more reliable than Dr. Google is now because Dr. Google is now just part of the machine. But then not so much. Again and again and again, I got told that I needed to look at my diet. To me, I wasn't overweight. “So how can I have a problem? How could that be an issue for me?” So I enrolled in the Institute for Integrative Nutrition, which is like a certificate health coaching course. But I was still working full time and still trying to be all the things that I was so accustomed to being.
Dr. Jenn Simmons 15:33
So I decided to take this course, and I'm sitting in this lecture hall. It's one of the first days, and this tall, lanky guy walks on the stage and smiles this big toothy grin and introduces himself as a functional medicine physician. Now, at this point, I'm a doctor [for] nearly 20 years because I'm out in practice. It takes five years to train as a surgeon in fellowship. So for about 20 years—a little more than 20 years—I had been a physician at this point. All I could think of was: “What is this quack talking about? There's no such thing as a functional medicine physician.” Then I remember that I'm sick, and I'm there for a reason. So I check my big ego at the door, and I tune in. And thank God I did because, as it turns out, this quack was Mark Hyman. [laughs] Right? Like, I meant me. And what he would have to say would not only forecast the rest of my life from a health standpoint but forecast the rest of my life as a provider, as a physician, as a healer.
Dr. Jenn Simmons 16:56
What I learned on that day was that we have so much more control than we think and that 80% of what we know as chronic disease that allegedly can't be healed can be healed by changing the way that you eat, drink, move, think, sleep—all of these things that you can do. Then the 20%—that's where the art is; that's where the magic is. And that's where I wanted to be able to get in there and help people. And I knew in that moment that I could heal myself, which took three years. So I don't want to gloss over it or make it seem like it was easy or simple or anything like that, but I knew that this was exactly what I was looking for. And I knew that the reason that I got sick was so that I could be in that room on that day to be put on this path.
Dr. Jenn Simmons 17:59
So I spent the next three years just emerged in the study of functional medicine. For most people, that's a bell you can't unring. Once you hear that calling, you're like: “Oh, yeah, this is what I'm supposed to do because this is what I set out to do. I set out to heal people, not to walk them over a bridge from one sickness to the next”—because that's what I was doing as a surgeon. I thought I was helping people, but you don't change the trajectory of the disease by cutting out the tumor because the tumor is not the problem. The tumor is the symptom of the problem. I needed to take a long look at me, what I was doing, and how I was living my life. And then I needed to take a long look at how I was practicing medicine. And I did. I came out on the other side a better person. And now I actually have the ability to help millions of women achieve the health that they want, that they need, and that they deserve.
Dr. Jill (pre-recording) 19:07
Hey, everybody. I just stopped by to let you know that my new book, Unexpected: Finding Resilience through Functional Medicine, Science, and Faith, is now available for order wherever you purchase books. In this book, I share my own journey of overcoming a life-threatening illness and the tools, tips, tricks, hope, and resilience I found along the way. This book includes practical advice for things like cancer and Crohn's disease and other autoimmune conditions, infections like Lyme or Epstein-Barr, and mold- and biotoxin-related illnesses. What I really hope is that as you read this book, you find transformational wisdom for health and healing. If you want to get your own copy, stop by ReadUnexpected.com. There, you can also collect your free bonuses. So grab your copy today and begin your own transformational journey through functional medicine and finding resilience.
Dr. Jill 20:02
What an amazing journey! I love it, and it parallels mine so much. There's this incredible knowledge we got in medical school, and it made us who we are today. And I have so many similarities in your journey—we go into medicine really wanting to help and heal—and even your story at the beginning of all your family members and all the motivation that you had. But somewhere along the lines, we get this ICD-10, and then here's a code, and here's a surgery or medication to cure that. But we're not really, really reversing the trajectory, like you said.
Dr. Jill 20:38
It's interesting, so many of us in functional medicine do have these journeys of someone we love, very near and dear to us, who has gotten ill. And I remember years ago, everybody thought I was a crazy one in medical school because I started looking at functional medicine in medical training and then in residency. Everybody thought I was way out there. But nowadays, it's those colleagues that call me when their husbands don't have a cure for their autoimmune disease. They're calling and saying, “Jill, do you have an answer?—because I'm not finding it.” Unfortunately, it's often coming to the end of a road conventionally. And you and I know that for trauma, for acute surgery, for a heart attack, we've got the best medical system in the world. So I'm like you; I find the value there. But there's more. It's like: “But wait, there's more!”
Dr. Jill 21:19
You had this journey of your own healing and dove into functional medicine. And obviously, now you're taking that to the world with women with breast health and breast cancer. What about that woman out there who's 55 years old and feeling tired, feeling worried about breast cancer, and feeling overwhelmed? Where do you start with these women who want help and want to either prevent breast cancer or maybe who've just gotten a diagnosis? How do you take them on that journey?
Dr. Jenn Simmons 21:45
Yes. I wish that they came to me before, but that's not happening. That's not happening for most people because the truth is that it takes a lot to change. People don't change until the pain of staying the same is worse than the pain of potential change. So that woman who is tired, unfortunately, is going to her primary care physician and is being told: “You're getting older. It's normal to be tired.” And that primary care physician isn't thinking about what you and I are thinking about—that if you're tired, your mitochondria aren't working well.
Dr. Jenn Simmons 22:34
So, why aren't your mitochondria working well? The mitochondria are the parts of the cell that generate ATP. That's our currency of energy. If you're tired, you're not making enough ATP. So I'm kind of that Sherlock Holmes person who's thinking about: “Well, what kinds of things affect your mitochondria?” Not that I do the same thing for everyone, but you have to have a system of checks and balances to make sure you don't miss anything. So I'm just thinking about things from head to toe.
Dr. Jenn Simmons 23:07
What's the state of the mouth? Is your mouth healthy? Is your oral microbiome okay? Do you have dental amalgams? If you have dental amalgams, they're 50% mercury, so they are off-gassing. I hear this all the time: “Oh, I just have one little, tiny metal amalgam in my mouth that's been there for 20 years. It's not a problem. It doesn't bother me.” Okay, let's check your mercury levels and see because if you have a metal amalgam in your mouth, the longer it's been there, the more it's off-gassing—not less, the more. And every time you run something hot by it, it off-gasses more. So with every morning cup of coffee, with every cup of tea, with every bowl of soup, with every meal that's hot, you are off-gassing. And that is potentially harming your mitochondria, so I'm thinking about that.
Dr. Jenn Simmons 24:03
I'm thinking about: Do you have root canals? If you have root canals, that's a dead tooth in your mouth—a dead tooth that's doing nothing but rotting. You would never keep a dead bone in your body. You would never keep a dead anything in your body. And yet, we have somehow allowed for this system of keeping dead teeth in our mouths. So that's something I'm thinking about. Do you have a chronic infection from that? Is your immune system so busy working on containing an infection there that it's not able to do its job anywhere else, and that's why you're tired?
Dr. Jenn Simmons 24:39
How's your gut? What does your gut microbiome look like? Do you have parasites?—because nearly everyone has parasites. I don't know if you've seen those disgusting videos on Instagram where they cut into a banana. I hear people all the time [say]: “Oh, I don't eat sushi. I don't need raw meat.” Blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay. They cut into a banana, put the slice under the microscope, and there they are—the creepy crawlers that you can only see under a microscope inside of your banana on top of your strawberries. They're there. They're everywhere. Parasites are everywhere. Is that an issue for you?
Dr. Jenn Simmons 25:18
And I'm literally walking down head to toe because we are one system. We're one system, and everything has to be operating in the system, and everything has to be operating in harmony. So that's what I'm doing for the person before.
Dr. Jenn Simmons 25:34
But the other thing that I'm really focused on is decreasing the number and the amount of toxins that we are exposing ourselves to, because that is the culprit for a lot of people for fatigue and for disease. And it's certainly the culprit for a lot of people's breast cancer. There are the obvious ones that everyone knows, like don't drink out of plastic bottles and that kind of thing. Try not to sniff gasoline when you're putting it inside of your car. Don't cook in nonstick. Don't store or cook in plastic. These are things that most people know.
Dr. Jenn Simmons 26:17
But then we have totally normalized alcohol, which is a major, major, major toxin in terms of liver function. If your liver is busy detoxifying the alcohol, it can't do the rest of the things that it's supposed to do. And I'm sorry ladies to say—and don't shoot the messenger—but there is no safe amount of alcohol for women, unfortunately.
Dr. Jill 26:48
I could not agree more on that. It's been sad that the media has given people a false sense of safety. It's not true.
Dr. Jenn Simmons 26:55
Yes. It's not true. It's absolutely, positively not true. And this is the one area—I guess there are others, but I hate to admit it—that we are not equal to men. Men can tolerate alcohol in small doses in a way that we simply cannot. We have too much else to detoxify that men don't, and our bodies simply can't handle it. [I can't tell you] the number of women who come to me because they are daily alcohol drinkers and subsequently develop breast cancer and say, “I'm not overweight”—I'm not this, I'm not that—”and all I do is have a glass of wine every day.” I put my pen down. I'm like, “Okay, I think we figured it out.”
Dr. Jill 27:51
There's this normalization, sadly. It's like the social thing to do. Even now I don't drink at all. If I'm in a social situation, I'm still kind of the weird one. I'm okay with that. I am so fine with that. But even in my group of functional medicine kinds of people, it's still uncommon to be someone who doesn't drink at all.
Dr. Jenn Simmons 28:12
For sure. For sure. Absolutely. But I talk about this all the time. It's just the first five minutes, like when you all sit down for dinner. So I just pull the: “I'm really thirsty. I'm just going to have some sparkling water, and then I'll order something.” I don't feel bad that I don't drink or anything like that, but it's sometimes easier to just not have the conversation, and I don't make that person sitting across from me feel badly. I'm up on my soapbox all day long. I don't want to be on my soapbox at dinner with my friends. They are well aware of the things that I say if they follow me. And if they don't follow me, that's on them. Everyone knows I'm out there talking. If you're not listening, that's on you. But I don't want to work at dinner.
Dr. Jill 29:10
I love that because it's so sad. Whether it's gluten-free, alcohol, or any of these things that we choose to not do or partake of, [we hear]: “Oh, come on! A little bit won't hurt you.” We hear those kinds of things. But I don't want to make them feel guilty. They can choose what they choose. If I'm in a mix or people don't know what I ordered, I'll get a specialty glass with a Pellegrino and lime. It looks like a martini. Again, I have no problem saying I don't drink, but even at some wedding or whatever, I'm holding a glass of wine. I'm not drinking it, but it's just easier because people ask questions. I have no problem saying I don't drink, and most of the time I'm carrying water, but it's not worth the conversation. And I don't want it to have to justify, and I don't want to blame or make anyone else feel bad either.
Dr. Jenn Simmons 29:58
Yes, that's exactly right.
Dr. Jill 30:00
It's really practical.
Dr. Jenn Simmons 30:04
It's not a secret. I think if you haven't heard that alcohol is bad for you, you're living in an alternate reality because I think it's out there enough and people talk about it enough. Everyone has to come to it in their own time and in their own way. And listen, do I do things that I know are bad for me? For sure. I'm not ready to go gray yet. I'm not ready to go gray.
Dr. Jill 30:29
I was going to say that one. I was like, “That and pedicures.” I'm like, “Uh.”
Dr. Jenn Simmons 30:35
I get my hair colored every three weeks. Come hell or high water, I get my hair colored every three weeks. I'm just not ready. But do I do a ton of other things that I know are protecting me? Yes. And you can't do it all, and that's my trade-off. People come to me with, “Can I do this?” “Can I do that?” “Can I do this?” “Can I do that?” You pick your poison. You're not going to be perfect. If you can be perfect, God bless you. I'm just not that person. I'm not that person. I'm too vain, and I'm not that person. I'm not ready to not wear makeup. I pick the healthiest makeup I can, but I'm not ready to not wear makeup. I'm not ready to not color my hair. I'm just not ready. I don't know if I'll ever be ready.
Dr. Jill 31:25
I was going to say, I love that you say that because people ask us questions: “What do you use?” “What do you do?” “Oh my gosh, I can't believe you do that” or whatever. I think this is really important because the concept here is margin.
Dr. Jill 31:35
First of all, I remember when I first got diagnosed with cancer and realized, “Oh, toxic load!” which is what you're talking about and what we both feel is so critical. I realized, “Oh, bath and body products, makeup, and air fresheners.” I went through over two years—my whole house, my whole regimen—and changed everything that I could. That's an important part of this, but it takes time. It can be expensive.
Dr. Jill 31:56
And you have to choose: 1) What can you afford? 2) What's the priority? And what you want to do is create enough margin in your toxic load bucket that you can have one or two things or whatever things that are really, really important for you. Unless you're perfect out there, which God bless you if you are. You and I, Dr. Jenn, are probably not.
Dr. Jenn Simmons 32:14
God bless you. I am far from perfect. So if you're perfect, good for you. But that would be near impossible.
Dr. Jill 32:21
I love that you said that because I think you're giving permission for people to do the very best you can in every area that you can. Our bodies are detox machines, so if we had just a small amount of toxic load every day, we should be able to handle that. It's when the exponential increase in environmental chemicals is being put into our environment, our hair, and our makeup. As young as 8 or 10 years old, we start putting things on our bodies that are toxic. That's when the toxic load goes up and starts to [inaudible].
Dr. Jenn Simmons 32:50
It actually happens way before then, if you think about it. Even baby products are not safe. They're not safe. They're terrible. I mean, people are putting Aquaphor on their babies. It's a petroleum product. It's terrible, terrible, terrible. I try to say this to my stepdaughters, but you have to be very, very careful when you're a stepmom and a doctor. You have to be very careful about what you say to them or [else] they stop telling you things. But it's hard. It's hard. And you're fighting a really big and powerful machine. And there's so much greenwashing. There's so much of all of that.
Dr. Jenn Simmons 33:29
The best advice that I give people is: Just try to do less. Use less products. Use things that are really clean. I don't put anything on my skin other than pure organic almond oil. That works for me. I just feel that that works for me. So I'm not spending a lot of money on products, and I'm going to do this for as long as it works for me. And then, if it doesn't work for me, I'll figure something else out. But you get rid of a lot of the face creams and the this and the that, and it works—decreasing your toxic load. We clean our house with a mixture of vodka, water, and lemon, and it works. But my kids don't love the laundry detergent that I have selected. They want Tide, so we fight about that and I win. They complain. It is what it is.
Dr. Jenn Simmons 34:38
But you said little by little. These organic, nonchemical-based things are definitely more expensive and not as effective, let's say. But I also think that we need a little germ in our lives because when you disinfect your world, you're not even allowing your immune system to do what it's supposed to do. You're not allowing it to be educated. You're not allowing it to grow and blossom, and that's a huge problem. That's why antibiotics are such a huge problem. Also, they act as xenoestrogens.
Dr. Jenn Simmons 35:19
But in thinking about our toxin exposure, one of my major, major platforms is radiation. We know that radiation is a known carcinogen—a known carcinogen! And yet, if you ask a radiologist, “Do mammograms cause breast cancer?” they will universally say no. How is it possible? How is it possible that all other radiation causes cancer but mammograms—we named them this lovely name, “mammogram,” a picture of the breast, instead of calling it what it is, which is an X-ray of the breast—suddenly don't cause breast cancer? Come on. Give me a break.
Dr. Jenn Simmons 36:07
I am on a platform to educate people about breast cancer screening, breast cancer prevention, and having a plan that does not include getting radiated every year, because that is a surefire way to guarantee that you're going to get a breast cancer.
Dr. Jill 36:29
Yes. So let's do this real practical. Say I'm 35 and I'm like, “Dr. Simmons, what do I do for screening?” What would you say?
Dr. Jenn Simmons 36:41
I fully believe in the self-breast examination. I think it's really important to know yourself, know your body, and know what you feel like when you're normal so that you can recognize when there's been a change. Newsflash: Every woman thinks her breasts are lumpy. Every woman. So know!—know what they feel like so that you can notice a change. And if you notice a change, so you know, I have no problems with diagnostic studies. What I have a problem with is taking the normal, healthy population, because that's what we're talking about. The screening population is an asymptomatic woman—a woman without any issues. But if you feel something, you're no longer asymptomatic. I think that's where the risk-benefit ratio makes sense. And you can go have an ultrasound. Go have a mammogram if they insist, although I don't think they're that helpful. And do whatever is required to get to the bottom of whatever symptom you're having.
Dr. Jenn Simmons 37:53
But in the normal, healthy population, you should be examining your breasts. If you are menstruating, it should be one week after the start of your menstrual cycle. If you're no longer menstruating, it should be the first of every month. Just look at your breasts. See what they look like. Arms down by your side [and then] above your head. You're looking for dimpling; you're looking for a change in the skin; you're looking for redness. Feel around the breasts. Use your fingertips. It's a circumferential exam where you're going from outside to in and just gliding your fingertips over the tissue. And if you're going to feel something abnormal, it's going to feel like a bump in the road. If you don't feel anything, you don't need anything more. Most women are not comfortable with that. Most women want to be more proactive than that. So let's talk about the imaging that exists now.
Dr. Jenn Simmons 38:52
There's the mammogram, but I don't believe that any asymptomatic women should be radiated for the purposes of screening for breast cancer. I don't think that we should be using a test that causes cancer to screen for cancer in a low-risk population. There's ultrasound. Ultrasound will not pick up calcifications. I could make an argument that calcifications don't matter because what they can, a fraction of the time, represent is DCIS (ductal carcinoma in situ). And I can argue that that is not breast cancer and that we should not be treating it like breast cancer because DCIS on its own has a 100% survival [rate]. DCIS that's been treated like it's invasive breast cancer has a 97% survival [rate] because we're killing people with the treatments of breast cancer.
Dr. Jenn Simmons 39:52
This is a problem. It's a problem. We can't treat someone for a non-life-threatening disease and give them heart disease, or give them osteoporosis, or give them dementia or Alzheimer's. We can't do that. We can't take away their quality of life, and that's what we're doing. That's what we're doing when we're treating these women who have DCIS and non-life-threatening disease. We're treating them like they have invasive cancer, and we are shortening the duration of their life and significantly interfering with the quality of their life, and it's wrong. It's immoral. We shouldn't be doing it.
Dr. Jenn Simmons 40:35
I think ultrasound is a perfectly viable option, but it's a low-resolution option. It leads to a lot of biopsies. Seventy-five percent of those biopsies are going to be benign. Three-quarters of the time, people who undergo a biopsy for something that's found on a mammogram and ultrasound are going to be benign, and they didn't need that biopsy. Biopsies are pretty anxiety-provoking. For women, once they've had a breast biopsy, it's like a bell that they can't unring. They think that they're high-risk, and they're forever waiting for the other shoe to drop. It's a terrible place to put someone for no reason, because the biopsy was benign. It's not a great system.
Dr. Jenn Simmons 41:25
There is MRI. MRI was thought to be the solution because it is such a high-resolution study, but MRIs inherently have their own problems. First of all, they're very expensive. Very expensive. So it's not a good screening tool just on that basis alone. But they also are not terribly comfortable. I don't know if you've ever had a breast MRI, but they're no walk in the park. There are access issues because, though I live in the suburbs of Philadelphia, we have plenty of MRI machines. There are plenty of places that don't have MRI machines, so it's not a viable screening option for that reason—because there are access issues. But the biggest problem that I have with MRI has nothing to do with expense, being uncomfortable, or access. The biggest problem is that in order for it to be an effective study, it requires gadolinium. Gadolinium is a heavy metal. We're putting that into our body.
Dr. Jill 42:26
I interviewed the world expert on gadolinium on the podcast. If you are watching and you haven't seen the episode with Dr. Richard, he's written all the papers on the research. I just want to share. I'm sure you know this, Dr. Simmons: He was a radiologist, one of the heads of the development of MRI, and he started realizing, “What if I'm giving my patients issues by ordering all these contrast MRIs?” And he started studying. He's the first radiologist speaking out, writing about how this can create toxicity in a percentage of the population. And I just love his bravery because it is an issue.
Dr. Jenn Simmons 43:01
Yes, it is an issue. And it's scary to come out. It's scary to come out against all of these places. I get attacked all the time—all the time!—because I say things that make radiologists feel really uncomfortable. But if you feel uncomfortable about something, you ought to ask why. If I was so off of my rocker, if what I was saying wasn't true, why would it make you feel uncomfortable? I wish that people were so much more curious than defensive. But everyone gets defensive instead of saying: “Wait, is that true? Is she onto something? Am I really doing the right thing?” But the problem is that they're operating in a system, and they believe what they were told.
Dr. Jenn Simmons 44:04
Listen, I was told mammograms save lives. I trained believing mammograms saved lives. I ordered thousands of mammograms. I can't even count how many mammograms I ordered over the years. I can't even count. But we all have to know that if you're not embarrassed over something that you did six months ago, you're not learning. I'm embarrassed over things I did six weeks ago because I'm constantly learning, and I'm constantly trying to hone my craft and do better. We can't rest on our laurels. What we believe to be true is not true for a lot of things.
Dr. Jenn Simmons 44:47
Listen, I came out of surgical residency in 2003 with the release of the Women's Health Initiative. I was told that hormones cause breast cancer, and I believed it. Hook, line, and sinker, I believed it. The guy who trained me was one of the world experts in breast cancer. He sat me down in my fellowship, and he said to me: “Hormones cause breast cancer. The only person who should go on hormones is the person who absolutely, positively cannot live without them. And if you put them on hormones, it should be the smallest amount for the least amount of time.” That was it.
Dr. Jill 45:36
I was in the same era as you and [had] the exact same training.
Dr. Jenn Simmons 45:40
The Women's Health Initiative—that's what it is. That's the only person who gets hormones—the smallest amount, the least amount of time. And then what happened in 2017? They retracted that whole paper. Did anyone read it? No.
Dr. Jill 45:55
And if I recollect, the estrogen-only arm—which was Premarin, not even bioidentical—had a 34% reduction in breast cancer.
Dr. Jenn Simmons 46:02
Reduction. That's correct. It was either 34 or 38. I can't remember now.
Dr. Jill 46:07
Somewhere in there, right?
Dr. Jenn Simmons 46:08
It was definitely a reduction. Did we talk about that? No. There are so many things that were wrong with that study that I can't even get into it right now. There are so many things that we have been told that we knew definitively to be true, which were not true.
Dr. Jill 46:33
I just love your humility here because I feel the same way. We really are learning the truth every day, every year, and every month. And if we're not okay to come out and say, “Wait, we thought this in medicine and we were wrong; let's change the paradigm”… I really want people to be able to get your book. I'm assuming you really dive into these issues in the book, right?
Dr. Jenn Simmons 46:55
I do.
Dr. Jill 46:57
So hold that up again and share the title so people can see that.
Dr. Jenn Simmons 47:01
It's The Smart Woman's Guide to Breast Cancer. If you have breast cancer, if you were recently diagnosed, if you're in treatment, if you've completed treatment, and you're wondering, “Now what?” or if you have a remote history of breast cancer, this book is for you. But beyond this, this book is for anyone who really cares about their health because, at the end of the day, breast health is health. Breast health is health. The very same things that are going to give you a healthy breast or going to give you a healthy brain, healthy bones, a healthy heart, a healthy gut, healthy muscles, healthy joints, a healthy vagina, and a healthy uterus. Healthy!
Dr. Jill 47:46
Everything.
Dr. Jenn Simmons 47:47
It's the same thing. We are one system. So this book really is your path to health, and that's why I wrote it. Now, will there be three different iterations of this book? For sure. I will write a book on prevention. I'm going to write a book on hormone replacement, especially in the breast cancer population, because this is a population of women who are discarded. They're ignored.
Dr. Jill 48:15
Yes. And they're scared.
Dr. Jenn Simmons 48:19
They're scared because they think that hormones cause breast cancer. But it's ridiculous. It's a ridiculous notion. If we believe estrogen causes breast cancer, then at the same time, we have to believe that every woman was put on this earth for the purpose of developing breast cancer.
Dr. Jill 48:35
Right. You think about the levels of estrogen as we're menstruating, and it makes no sense at all.
Dr. Jenn Simmons 48:43
It makes no sense at all. Or, look at pregnant women. I treated thousands and thousands and thousands of women for breast cancer. I treated more women for breast cancer than anyone else in Philadelphia in my career. I saw two pregnant women. In my entire career, I treated two pregnant women. I treated plenty of men. I treated two pregnant women. It just doesn't happen that frequently. Yet, the levels of estrogen in a pregnant woman are 10 times that, and that's our most proliferative estrogen. That's our estradiol. That's our really stimulatory estrogen.
Dr. Jenn Simmons 49:34
So, the whole explanation that hormones cause cancer is a narrative. It's a narrative for us to believe because we have hormone blockers. We have estrogen blockers. But they're acting on the estrogen receptor, because the estrogen receptor is protective. And I could make an argument that putting women on hormone replacement would do the same thing as many of these hormone blockers without sacrificing their health—without sacrificing their heart, their brain, their bones, their vagina, their libido, their mood, their gut.
Dr. Jill 50:16
It is time for us to stand up and say this and get the truth out there. There are hundreds of thousands of women who have suffered too long.
Dr. Simmons, this has been so fun to talk to you. I love your passion, and the place it comes from is so similar because we've both been there and then found the light of functional medicine and have this passion for sharing it in the world. And I'm so glad that you've written this book and that women can get a copy. Where can people find you? Where can they get a copy of the book? Where can they learn more about your world?
Dr. Jenn Simmons 50:47
Most excitingly, you can find me at PerfeQTion Imaging because this is a new imaging technique that does not involve pain and does not involve compression. We are screening for breast cancer using ultrasound waves but in a completely novel, revolutionary way that creates a true 3D reconstruction of the breast with 40 times the resolution of an MRI. This is going to replace mammograms, ultrasounds, and MRIs for screening. The first center will be open on the East Coast in the suburbs of Philadelphia. It's called PerfeQTion Imaging, but the perfection is spelled with a Q in the middle instead of a C. You can find that at PerfeQTionImaging.com. Come in and have your screening study. It's painless and the safest, most affordable, and most effective way to screen for breast cancer.
Dr. Jenn Simmons 51:58
And then you can find my website, which is RealHealthMD.com. There are all my programs there. You can also find my book there—The Smart Woman's Guide to Breast Cancer—or on Amazon. And then you can find me on all the social media outlets, @Dr. Jenn Simmons. And my Jenn has two Ns.
Dr. Jill 52:24
Awesome. Dr. Jenn with two Ns, this has been amazing! I could talk to you for another two hours because we have such a common passion with our histories and getting the word out for women that they don't have to live in fear. Thank you for writing the book. Thank you. I am so excited to hear and collaborate and promote your centers for imaging because this is a real, real practical answer to all of the fear-mongering and the issues that we've had that we already spoke about. So thank you, thank you for the work that you do. It is absolutely delightful to talk to you! And I'll be one of the first ones out there to get my imaging.
Dr. Jenn Simmons 53:04
Amazing! Well, we can't wait to see you.
Dr. Jill 53:07
Thank you.
* These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. The product mentioned in this article are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. The information in this article is not intended to replace any recommendations or relationship with your physician. Please review references sited at end of article for scientific support of any claims made.
Share: