In Episode #45, Dr. Jill Carnahan interviews Dr. Jennifer Kessmann on the growing concerns around breast implant illness and toxicity. Learn about possible signs and symptoms of breast implant illness even as long as 10 years after implants, the difference between saline and silicone and textured implants and how to make the most empowered choice for you.
More Reading
Breast Cancer Prevention: https://www.jillcarnahan.com/2014/10/12/11-tips-breast-cancer-prevention/
https://www.drjenniferkessmann.com
https://www.breastimplanthealthsummit.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/Healingbreastimplantillness
https://www.facebook.com/breastimplantvictimadvocacy
Dr. Jill
Dr. Jill Carnahan is Your Functional Medicine Expert® dually board certified in Family Medicine for ten years and in Integrative Holistic Medicine since 2015. She is the Medical Director of Flatiron Functional Medicine, a widely sought-after practice with a broad range of clinical services including functional medical protocols, nutritional consultations, chiropractic therapy, naturopathic medicine, acupuncture, and massage therapy. As a survivor of breast cancer, Crohn’s disease, and toxic mold illness she brings a unique perspective to treating patients in the midst of complex and chronic illness. Her clinic specializes in searching for the underlying triggers that contribute to illness through cutting-edge lab testing and tailoring the intervention to specific needs.
Featured in Shape Magazine, Parade, Forbes, MindBodyGreen, First for Women, Townsend Newsletter, and The Huffington Post as well as seen on NBC News and Health segments with Joan Lunden, Dr. Jill is a media must-have. Her YouTube channel and podcast features live interviews with the healthcare world’s most respected names.
A popular inspirational speaker and prolific writer, she shares her knowledge of hope, health, and healing live on stage and through newsletters, articles, books, and social media posts! People relate to Dr. Jill’s science-backed opinions delivered with authenticity, love and humor. She is known for inspiring her audience to thrive even in the midst of difficulties.
The Podcast
The Video
The Transcript
#45: Dr. Jill interviews Dr. Jennifer Kessmann on on Breast Implant Illness
Dr. Jill 00:13
Hello everyone! We are live, and it is great to have you join us this afternoon. I am so excited about today. And if any of you follow me on Instagram, or if you don't, please jump on over there. Dr. Jill Carnahan on Instagram. I promoted this one in particular because I know that there are a lot of women out there who need to hear this message. Dr. Jennifer Kessmann and I are so excited to be here to talk to you. I'm going to formally introduce her in just a minute or two.
Dr. Jill 00:43
And just a little housekeeping to begin with: If you like these podcasts and shows, you can go to my website, jillcarnahan.com, for more free information, free blogs, recipes, and all kinds of stuff. You can always visit the retail store, DrJillHealth.com, for products and things. Today we probably won't be talking a lot about products. And then the last thing is that I have a free YouTube channel with lots of content with other physicians, and this will also be live there in a few days. So if you've missed any of the other talks, you can jump on the YouTube channel and watch all of them. They're all free [and have] some great content. I expect today will be no different.
Dr. Jill 01:24
Today I have Dr. Jennifer Kessmann, who reached out to me and mentioned this topic. I was so excited because I have seen patients in clinical practice with breast implant-related illness and toxicity. It's a topic that, like any environmental toxicity, we don't hear a lot about. But I want to just bring awareness to that today because some people have these mysterious symptoms and issues and don't know what they are, and it's actually something in their own body that's affecting their health. As both Dr. Kessmann and I believe, these things are multifactorial, so it's not always like there's one thing. But this can be a really big deal. I've had at least a dozen patients who have had this illness and have recovered after they explanted those. So I am so excited to hear from Dr. Kessmann.
Dr. Jill 02:11
She's actually prepared some slides. So I think today will be one of the best [episodes]—super educational and science-based. I want to introduce her. So let me just tell you a little bit about Dr. Kessman. And we were just talking when we first got on. I said: “I know we've met before. Do you remember when it was?” And we thought it was around 2015 at a functional medicine conference. I think we sat by one another. And [I] just love her energy and what she's bringing. So let me introduce her.
Dr. Jill 02:37
She's a certified functional medicine physician like I am, and she's passionate about finding solutions to health concerns and bringing us all back to optimal health. She graduated magna cum laude from Texas A&M University while studying scientific nutrition. She's currently practicing functional medicine focused on finding root causes to improve health. With over 20 years of experience in traditional medicine as an MD, she began to recognize patterns quickly and find answers to one's health conditions. She's also passionate about lifestyle and its impact on disease. She is just a wealth of knowledge. So thank you so much, Dr. Kessmann, for joining me today.
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 03:16
Wow, thank you for that great introduction, Jill! I am so excited to be here. I have followed you for so many years, and you have just been such an icon for me. I really cherish your knowledge and your ability. The way that you can share things is just so beneficial to the whole medical space, functional medicine space, and integrative medicine space. So thank you for that. And I hope that the women who need to be here are here.
Dr. Jill 03:45
Oh, I'm sure they are, and we'll share it with those who aren't. And thank you for that beautiful [and] kind introduction. You know what's funny? I love putting out the content and [have] been doing that for a long time in this space. It still surprises me and touches me deeply when my colleagues—whom I respect and who are doing the same thing on the front lines—[like] you tell me that it's mattered in their life. It touches me deeply. So it gives me the excitement to keep going and keep putting out content. That means a lot, Jennifer, so thank you very, very much.
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 04:13
[inaudible] amazing. Absolutely. I can't say more about that. I'm going to go ahead and share my screen.
Dr. Jill 04:21
Yes. And before you do, let's jump in just for a second here. I would love to talk about your story.
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 04:31
Do you want me to stop the share then?
Dr. Jill 04:31
No, just for a second, because I think people want to see you and just [know] how you got into functional medicine [and] how you got interested.
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 04:37
Oh, sure. Well, my background was in nutrition. I think that's been a lifelong passion. I also had this passion for the environment and supporting the environment. I think, really, when you think about it, they go together, right? The environment supports health, and then it all flows together. So I did traditional medicine until about 2008, and that's when I really started seeing: “No, this nutrition is super important.” I got back on that bandwagon, went to Andrew Wells conferences, and got certified in integrative medicine. Then my journey into functional medicine, which was sort of, “Oh my goodness, this is just where it's at!”
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 05:24
And then I had my own issues in 2015, and it was just fortuitous that those two came together at the same time. I was able to use functional medicine to help myself, which, when you actually go through it, really makes a big difference in how you understand it and how it impacts your view of medicine in general. You can't go back after that.
Dr. Jill 05:46
I found the lectures and stuff might be 25% of what we learned, but the experience—that is a whole other level because you understand these little nuances of what it's like to not be able to get out of bed. The things that our patients are telling us—it's like, “Oh, yes, I remember how that felt.” And when you actually experience it, it really takes it to a whole other level, not only [in terms] of understanding but even compassion. I'm sure you have a lot of compassion for your patients of all types, because whenever we've had those experiences, it really, really changes how we view it, right?
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 06:16
You really hear them, and you want to help them because you know you were on the other side. So it's just something that, at this point, is a gift. But at the time, it was not something that I cherished for sure.
Dr. Jill 06:32
Oh, I say that so often, right? Like now, it's the best thing that ever happened, but I remember that my cancer was not fun. I was bald. All kinds of things.
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 06:42
I know; I can't imagine.
Dr. Jill 06:44
Well, yes, let's jump in. Let's go ahead and share your slides. I can't wait to hear this. So, I'll make sure that works. Awesome.
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 06:54
Is it up?
Dr. Jill 06:54
Perfect, yes. Awesome. Yes, we can see it great. So, go ahead.
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 07:00
So I guess the question is: Is it implant illness? When I see a patient and get their intake forms—we have this scoring system called the MSQ—and I look at the MSQ, I'm like, “Oh, I think she has implants.” And sure enough, most of the time, that's the case. There are other illnesses that can cause those high MSQ scores of 90 to 100, but implant illness really can trigger a lot of symptoms. When I experienced breast implant illness, it didn't exist. It wasn't being talked about, and nobody in the medical field really knew anything about it. I went to my physicians, and they were like, “Jennifer, I have no idea what's going on with you.” And I was like, ‘Gosh!' So I had to kind of figure it out.
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 07:56
Luckily, along the way, I met other practitioners who had some background in this and were able to help me navigate how to get better. So now I'm passionate about trying to help other people get better with whatever illness they're experiencing because implant illness is very similar to many other things that cause profound oxidative stress and inflammation in the body.
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 08:23
But when I talk about the root cause of breast implant illness, I really have to say: Why are we doing this? Why are we getting breast implants? And should we look at ourselves… I love the way Sophia Loren says that nothing makes a woman more beautiful than her belief that she is. And also, just this process of being able to choose…
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 08:50
There's a movement right now called Going Flat. And there was a study that just got published in UCLA and they're offering this to women—the plastic surgeons and them. They had about 900 women, and 74% said they were great with that decision and very happy about it. So I think we need to think about: What are our options?—putting all of these things into our basket of possibilities and letting women make the decision for themselves. I don't know how you feel about that but…
Dr. Jill 09:24
I love that, Dr. Kessmann, because really it's about empowering women to make the best choices for them. And what is true about women [is that] we're born with this great intuition, so we kind of know. And there's no wrong… We are not here to shame any choices that you choose, but if you can touch base with your own heart, soul, and intuition—whether you have implants and are getting them removed or whether you're trying to decide whether or not to do them, whether you've never had implants or any of these choices—we just want to be here to empower you with more information to make the best choice for yourself.
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 09:55
That is so true. I also want to say that I'm presenting this information, and I know women have breast implants, but I also want to say that there are women who don't get ill. I don't want anyone to have fear. I don't want to create fear in anyone. So, to be aware is really the purpose of this talk.
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 10:18
Anyway. This was a trip I took to one of the blue zones in the world in Nosara, Costa Rica. The people there are just so beautiful, and they eat the healthiest food. It's a natural beauty that's coming from them being joyful. And I think joyfulness and happiness come from good health. So anything that's taking away from your health is taking away from your internal beauty, happiness, and joy. I see you post about that all the time, so I know you're all on board with all of that.
Dr. Jill 10:53
I love that. And I love that because I've gone on my journey from feeling like I wasn't enough, and I had my own insecurities. As I've embraced who I am and am showing up in the world, my little tagline now is: “I don't give a fig Newton what people think.” It's not like I don't care—I'm still compassionate. But what happened before was that I was doing things based on what I thought people wanted of me. Now it's like I'm showing up as my true, authentic self without apology. And that's beautiful, I think.
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 11:22
I love that! I so love that and I'm working on that.
Dr. Jill 11:26
We're all on the journey.
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 11:31
But along this journey, I've had the opportunity to meet some of the most amazing women. I went to the FDA last year for the hearing on breast implants, where we met some of the people who were leading the movement back in the 90s, [including] Sybil Goldberg. I love to give her a lot of credit. Jamee Cook and Raleen—they've just been amazing in this movement and getting this information to be on the main stage, which is, I think, exactly what we need.
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 12:02
When I was learning about implant illness, I went to Facebook. That's where I learned a lot about it. These women are amazing. The bottom group there is out of Canada. It has over 130,000 members now. I mean, it's just unbelievable. About 300,000 women are getting implants every year in the United States. A third of those are for reconstructive purposes, but 70% are for cosmetic purposes. The upper group is Breast Implant Victim Advocacy. Jamee is great about posting all of the latest articles that come out on ALCL and breast implant illness. So you can find out even more information from those sites. She keeps it very evidence-based.
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 12:49
I think that another thing that got us on the main stage is something called breast implant-associated ALCL. Only about 993 cases as of January 4th have been reported in the world. Relatively speaking, that's not a huge number. But when you know 10 people who have had it, it's a huge number. Mainly, the textured implants are leading to this. Being educated, even if you're choosing to do implants, as to what may have the least risk—this is something that has been powerful in this movement.
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 12:49
Breast implant illness—this is just one of the slides that are very commonly presented on the internet. There are so many symptoms! I think that's kind of classic for the presentation and to put that in your mind—when someone has so many things going on. A lot of them kind of fall in line with mast cell activation syndrome. Rita Kappel has done a lot of research on mast cell activation syndrome and breast implant illness. She has followed these women who have had the gel bleed into their bodies for years and then developed these symptoms, tracking them and finding that they resolve upon explant, like you have seen.
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 14:19
Anyway, I was involved in that Delphi expert consensus panel trying to create an ICD-10 code, if you will, for breast implant illness and criteria that you can use to hopefully put this on the radar. This is going to be published, I think, this year. But anyway, the 20 symptoms that came out first were similar to the ones that I presented on the slide before. But brain fog and fatigue are probably the most reported things, and then, anxiety, depression, joint pain, and rashes. I think [about] how to tease this apart from other things like hypothyroidism, for instance, or other autoimmune diseases. Certainly, people have autoimmune diseases that don't have breast implants and have other sources for all of this stuff. And it's just hard to determine: How do you know if it's the implants?
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 15:18
For me, I started getting this rash on my chest. It was nothing that I'd ever seen in my 20 years of medicine. It was so itchy and everything. That's when I really started thinking about: Could it be these implants that I have? Certainly, the Facebook groups have tons of pictures of this rash—after the fact, after I ex-planted and became more aware of this as being an issue. But the panel met on several occasions, and these were the top five symptoms that ended up being the criteria that they were going to move forward with.
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 15:57
And I should mention the brain fog. These women have intense brain fog. I'm not talking about [something] like “Where are my keys?” or “my phone.” It's like they can't figure out the way to get home from the store. They forget all kinds of things. There's been a couple of times when I've shipped things to patients because they've given me the wrong address. And I just think it's profound when you see something like that to think about breast implants or implant illness/disease. Gosh, I love your input, so just jump in any time, Jill.
Dr. Jill 16:34
This is great.
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 16:36
Okay. This is kind of a classic rash—the chest rash. It's sort of a diffuse redness with some splotchiness, maybe. You can get any kind of rash, though, [such as] urticaria. People can just have diffuse itching and have no rash, or they can have a fine, papular rash. But for a lot of these women, their rashes resolve after explantation.
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 16:36
This woman has done a lot of work. She's been on Business Insider, if you want to see more about her story. She was focused on that [platform] on two occasions, and it's just unbelievable. The top left is her before implants. This is when she started getting sick. And this is kind of the peak of her illness. And I don't know if you can see, but she's got a disconjugate gaze.
Dr. Jill 17:27
Yes.
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 17:28
It's affecting something in her eyes, her cranial nerves, and that resolved. This is her plastic surgery follow-up appointment. She's only at three months, I think, post-op. She's not a patient of mine, but she really reached out to me and said, “Share my stuff because I want people to learn about this.”
Dr. Jill 17:51
That's so profound to see those photos because anyone can tell the differences.
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 17:58
Yes, and these are all over. [There are] just hundreds and hundreds of patients for whom you see this similar scenario happen. I call it the face of implant illness. It's sort of classic. This woman had implants that were saline and then one of them molded, which is another thing that can happen, mainly in the saline implants. This is post-up day one and post-op day six. You can see the changes in her inflammatory state really remarkably.
Dr. Jill 18:31
Unbelievable! That's so profound.
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 18:35
And this woman also went on the news and was [like]: “Yes, sure. Share whatever you can that can help other women.” And Liza, you can see her story also, but she was back in the time when breast implant illness didn't exist and nobody had heard of it. But [she] demanded that her implants get taken out. And this is her post-operatively. So, [these are] just remarkable changes. Talia is here in the metroplex, and I met her while doing a CBS interview for the news on implant illness years ago. This is her with sort of a malar rash—sort of a dermatomyositis look. But this is her on Facebook now. She says that all of her symptoms have almost completely gone away. So [there are] just remarkable stories like that. And knowing these women, I know that this has really happened because I saw it happening.
Dr. Jill 19:38
And, Dr. Kessmann, I was going to mention, and here you are with the slide: I'm assuming a lot of these women have more risk of autoimmunity—which could also resolve—and then, like you said, the mast cell activation, some of the histamine prostaglandin kind of reactions. So probably most of what we're seeing in those photos was either that auto-inflammatory kind of autoimmune cytokine stuff or could be related to mast cell [activation syndrome]. Does that sound fair to what you're seeing?
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 20:03
Yes, sure. Yes, yes. It's sort of like a mixture of different autoimmune diseases sometimes. And they may not have a positive test, a positive A&A, or a positive scleroderma. And it seems like it takes a long time for these women to become ill, so they may have the implants for 10-plus years. And the studies that have been done on implants for six years long. So, of course, that didn't show a lot of these things that take 10 years to develop.
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 20:34
But some of the work has been done by Professor Dr. Shoenfeld. I don't know if you saw him. He came to, I think, the autoimmune IFM in 2018. He did his ASIA story. But he did a lot of the work on what's called ASIA—which sort of encompasses breast implant illness—Gulf War syndrome and a lot of other toxic diseases that activate the mast cells into a cytokine storm picture. And then, of course, there's Aristo Vogdani, which I know you know about. He's done work with antibodies to silicone.
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 21:18
There was a study that came out last year from MD Anderson and Mark Clemens, who do a lot of the work with the ALCL. That study did have some associations with some autoimmune diseases, although retrospectively. They weren't really looking for autoimmune disease. They were looking more at other issues. But as a side note, they found a higher incidence of rheumatoid arthritis, a higher incidence of Sjogren's [syndrome], and a higher incidence of scleroderma in those patients. There are a lot of studies. A lot of them are coming from other countries.
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 21:58
But the FDA did this year or last year now—gosh, it's already January 21. But in September of last year, they came out with some warnings on their website regarding breast implants. And that's really why I feel comfortable speaking about this today, because it was so controversial that this didn't exist. And now, at least the FDA has come out and said that this illness is here and we need to be aware of it. And we, as the group, wanted informed consent. We wanted women to be able to make this decision on their own, so they recommended putting a black box warning on the implants so that women could see this. So you can go and look. They have an ingredient list on their website now. They also have the informed consent that they're recommending.
Dr. Jill 22:59
This is amazing already. I know you've been an advocate, but that's tremendous to have that warning because it's not like we're saying everybody should not do this but just to be informed and make an educated choice. If you're at high risk of autoimmunity, you may want to consider those types of things. I love that, and I know part of it's due to your hard work.
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 23:18
No, not mine. Not mine. I don't take credit. I was there for moral support. But yes, all of the autoimmune issues that are there, they sort of started showing them. What I wanted to say was that the black box warning is a recommended thing, and so it really is still going to take [inaudible] putting all of this information out there.
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 23:52
This [is a] slide I wanted to include. This is a textured implant that is ruptured. This is cohesive silicone. There are three kinds of implants: One is silicone, one is saline, and then this cohesive silicone, which is sort of the new gummy bear implant. And this one happens to be ruptured. The fuzzy stuff you see on there is the texture. That was created to try to help prevent contracture around the implant or scar tissue from squeezing the implant too much, which happens in some women. But these implants, if they're shiny, are smooth.
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 24:28
I will say that one of the misconceptions that people have about implant illness [is]: “Well, my implants aren't ruptured. I'm fine. I don't have that because my implant isn't ruptured.” But that's not true because these bleed even when they're not ruptured, and they dissolve. We know they're not lifetime devices. I don't want to get too far into that discussion, but the manufacturers recommend removing them at 10 years because they are not lifetime devices. I think it's important for women to know that as well. You know this slide, right, from Dr. Ray?
Dr. Jill 25:11
Yes.
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 25:12
Okay. Dr. Ray—I got to work with him on Tuesday mornings for about three years. He was just amazing as far as his knowledge of chemical sensitivity and environmental illness [went]. He had a lot of implant patients that came through and a lot of chemical-sensitivity patients. With mast cell activation syndrome, these patients get a lot of chemical sensitivities to air, skin, and their foods—just a lot of different sensitivities. So removing those things that they're sensitive to is so important to being able to heal. I saw patients that were so reactive, Jill. It was unbelievable. They would react to the paint on the sheetrock. I don't know if you've encountered chemical sensitivity—
Dr. Jill 26:05
Yes, I love that you're putting it in context because that's kind of where we started: This is one piece of the puzzle—and for some women, it's a huge piece of the puzzle—but it's usually not the only thing in the whole world that's toxic in isolation. So part of it is probably that the patients who have a higher toxic load to begin with are going to develop more issues. Or if you're already a kind of sensitive person, that may play into your decision whether or not to get implants or whether to remove them because, from what I'm seeing in clinical practice and I'm sure you are too, there is a more sensitive part of the population genetically. Because, like you said, there are some people who have no reactions. So this is all part of the bigger picture, the foundation of which the implant comes in.
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 26:49
Absolutely. I'm so glad you brought up the toxic body burden, which has been accumulating over time. And certainly our genetics even play into that. And there is some evidence when you read some of the articles by Shoenfeld that you know people with terrible allergies from childhood have more problems with implants. So maybe that is another piece that people want to pay attention to. Some people are saying the MTHFR gene, which creates methylation issues and increases toxic burden, can also play a role in breast implant illness.
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 27:29
I love this slide. T cells—they're either your friend or your foe, and boy are they ever! We need them, but we want them to be quiet for the most part. And I think people are understanding that more now with COVID and cytokine storms—how these T cells, when they get too interested in something, can cause a lot of problems. Although, without them, we have tons of infections and immune system issues.
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 28:06
When these T cells secrete their cytokines, these cytokines are loose in the tissue and can go into other spaces and create inflammation, amplifying inflammation outside of the space where they're meant to be operational. I think that the fact that these women usually get six to eight years is speaking to the fact that it's amplifying, amplifying, amplifying over time.
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 28:37
I love the cell danger response. When I stumbled upon this, I was like, “Oh my gosh, this is the answer to everything, almost!” But looking at the epigenetics of things that change in regards to when a cell has had so much inflammation that it can't live anymore, it releases its contents, and then those contents turn on receptors on the cells next door to increase inflammation. So this is playing a role and it makes sense. Certainly, I don't have concrete evidence of that but—
Dr. Jill 29:16
I love that you brought up the cell danger response because, like you, as I've heard of this in the last several years with Dr. Nevaux's research, it puts all the pieces together. And for those of you listening if you've never heard of this, the very basics are when cells, like Dr. Kessmann mentioned, get disrupted and spill their contents outside the cytoplasm. Those contents can trigger an outside cell wall reaction when it says: Hey, there's damage here. We used to call it damage-associated triggers. And those cell contents that have spilled outside, including ATP, will go outside and then trigger the external receptors. And the body is like: Wait, this isn't supposed to be here. And it creates a cell-danger response.
Dr. Jill 30:01
There's a lot more to it. But the bottom line is that it creates chronic fatigue. It's underlying a lot of the infectious diseases, like Lyme disease and tick-borne infections. It's underlying a lot of the toxicity, whether it's breast implant illness toxicity or mold illness. And it's common in fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, and autism. So it's stopping this response, and decreasing the effects on the outside of the cell can actually reverse a lot of those symptoms. It's easier said than done.
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 30:31
Yes. Every little piece, I was just so fascinated with it—even decreasing the response of this to vitamin D and increasing scar tissue, oh, it's just fascinating—when I learned about that from Dr. Nevaux and all of the other researchers who have put their work into that. And then you just mentioned all of this, so thank you so much for going into all of that. But any inflammatory state—we know sepsis is so inflammatory, and it causes such severe blood pressure fluctuations and just really intense symptoms. People are very aware of that, the cytokines that get released, and all of that. COVID-19, mold illness, Lyme disease, autoimmune diseases—all of these have that intense inflammation that can create that whole pattern of disease symptoms that you can see.
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 31:26
So in the patients that I see that have implants, gosh, we work through all of this: “Do you have any of these other things that we can help you with?” And I honestly never tell anyone to get their implants out. That is such a personal decision, and it has to really be almost like a family decision because it's such a step. It's not a simple thing to commit to going under another surgery, so I certainly don't take it lightly at all. I would encourage everyone listening to never just jump to that. Make sure you've looked everywhere that you can to try to fix the problem.
Dr. Jill 32:13
I love that you say that, because here we are hoping to empower women to make the right choice for themselves. We're not at all saying you must do this or that. It's just [about] giving more information so that you can make a great decision for yourself. And either way is the right decision if you decide and own it.
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 32:27
Yes. I just really want to educate and then let people make their own decisions on all of this. So on this slide, I think we could spend hours. I don't want to do that. But it's all about re-establishing immune tolerance and removing the things that may trigger the immune system. That will allow the T cells to relax and stop releasing cytokines. So [it's about] removing unnecessary toxins, such as dysbiosis and candida, and anything else you may be exposing yourself to.
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 33:07
I work really hard on air quality because I find that patients aren't really looking there. They're not thinking about it. They're sleeping with fabric softeners all around them and all of these chemicals coming out of their foam mattresses. All of those things can cause symptoms. Removing whatever you can to decrease your toxic body burden and allowing the natural detoxification process to begin, starting with the high levels: Sweat, urine, and stool. We only have three ways to detox, and getting rid of the toxins in any way that we can can help with that toxic burden.
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 33:48
I always recommend organic food, and I know you do. At Dr. Ray's clinic, I also learned about the food rotation, which I do implement so much because a lot of my patients are so health conscious and they eat super healthy, but they eat the same thing. And when they get that permeable gut—an inflammatory response going on in the gut—they start reacting to everything they're eating, [which] is what I find out when I do the testing. So increasing the rotation of foods every four to seven days is based on the fact that T cell populations decrease over about a three- to four-day period of time. So I love that.
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 34:26
And then, filtered water out of glass—if anyone brought a plastic bottle into Dr. Ray's clinic, he was like, “No plastic!” Now we know. I've seen the speakers who talk about mast cell activation say how sensitive their patients are to these plastics. Even when they're getting vitamin IVs, they're reacting to the tubing and things like that. So yes, I'd love any of your input on any of that.
Dr. Jill 34:59
The phthalates are kind of softeners and some of the plastic tubing, and then the BPA, which is, of course, from water bottles and things. And now there's BPA-free, but it's a different type of BPA. I actually think all plastics should be avoided. I don't think that the new BPAs are any safer, or at least not safe enough to be used. Now granted, back in the day when we did travel, there was still once in a while when I'd used plastic bottles. But as long as you're like 90% of the time using glass when you have the choice, then that 10% doesn't matter so much. So, I love that. And it's funny, you mentioned something that people have heard me say: “Clean air, clean water, clean food”—a really simple thing. That's like the foundation of detox. And you're mentioning all those things here about air, water, and food.
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 35:42
Yes, that's great. And I always thought I lived pretty clean. I went, and then I realized I'm not living near clean enough. I had so much in my house that I needed to remove to get to a level where my air feels really clean now. And I love that.
Dr. Jill 36:04
I was just going to mention really quickly that I had breast cancer. This year is 20 years [since], if you can believe that. I remember afterward understanding, “Oh, wow, my soaps, my lotions, my cleaning supplies, and all of these things actually matter,” and starting that process of really cleaning up my makeup and all the stuff we women use—including cleaners and bath and body products and everything. If you've never looked at that, it could take a year or two to really go through, and it's a little more expensive, and you have to trade out brands.
Dr. Jill 36:34
But if you want a resource, the Environmental Working Group has so many resources on the toxicity levels of makeup and hair products. They have a database called Skin Deep, and it's all free. It's ewg.org. So, it's all free resources if you're looking, because I remember it taking a couple of years to transition. Now I just naturally always choose clean products, but it takes a while. But it is important. It's really important, especially for our young women who are putting on more makeup or bath and body products, because their skin surface-wise is going to absorb more. And they're going to be more affected at 12 than they are at 36.
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 37:09
I hope everybody's listening right now, but go ahead. No, I totally appreciate you saying that. Yes, so I try to keep it super simple—just an unfragranced soap that you can wash the floors with. Hydrogen peroxide. Baking soda does tons of good in bathrooms. For the windows, you can do vinegar. So it can be really simple. When you get to the products for the face and all of that, I love the Environmental Working Group—I'm so glad you brought that up—and for food and organic foods as well.
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 37:43
But here's another thing, number five: The vagal activity that gets going with these patients when they have all of these cytokine issues and inflammation triggers their fight-or-flight [response]. Then that fight-or-flight [response] propagates the whole problem, and they get into a vicious cycle of being super anxious, which triggers the immune system and anxiety. So, [it's about] really finding ways to break out of that. And there's a lot of work, like with HeartMath and learning how to breathe and how to calm that fight or flight response on your own, getting really grounded. Using the ground—I love to recommend using trees and going outside and enjoying nature. There's a lot of evidence that it decreases the fight-or-flight [response], which can help healing. And Annie Hopper—you know Annie Hopper?
Dr. Jill 38:36
Oh yes, the DNRS program; I'm a huge fan. In fact, I just created limbic system-retraining ideas. There's like 12 of them because there's this DNRS, there's Dr. Gupta's program, there's HeartMath—all the ones you mentioned. But sometimes, for our type A people like myself, [having] one more thing to do and one more program actually makes us more stressed. And these are great programs; don't get me wrong. But what I tried to do on that handout was things like craniosacral or binaural beats—some of these things that are passive that you can just receive and enjoy—or walking in nature. All of those can help. So I love that you're talking about this because I literally believe that 100% of people dealing with any form of toxicity have to address the limbic system in order to get back to 100%—that's a piece of the puzzle for everybody.
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 39:20
I'm so glad you are saying that because I love that. I sometimes feel like I get an unusual look when I tell them to go outside and ground [themselves]. They're like, “Really?” But I think when you go to the mountains, where you get to be so close, you just feel so good. And could any of this actually be scientific in—
Dr. Jill 39:46
One hundred percent! I've done silly little things. I live in Colorado, so there are days when it's really cold out. And I don't know if it's been below 32, but it could be like 45, 35, or 40. I'll be out walking the dogs, and I'll sometimes take off my shoes and socks and stand barefoot on the grass. And it's cold. I mean, it's warm too—it's not all year-round like that. But I have actually chosen to stand barefoot on very, very cold grass. But it's so invigorating. It might just be a minute or two. And you can do it, of course, [when it's] warm—summer, beach, whatever. You don't have to wait for spring. There's something kind of invigorating about standing barefoot on 35-degree grass.
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 40:27
I bet you are activating the vagal system, right?
Dr. Jill 40:30
And then breathing—I incorporate breathing there. And I'm like, “This is going to be the new Wim Hof.” Like, “Dr. Jill's standing on cold grass!”
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 40:41
Oh my! I haven't done that yet. We don't get snow very often, but I'm going to try it next time.
Dr. Jill 40:45
It takes a brave soul. But I'm telling you, it's pretty darn invigorating.
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 40:49
I bet! It reminds me [of when] I went to Alaska. I was in Barrow, Alaska, and there were people that would jump into the iceberg—freezing water—to do a plunge. I don't know, I guess they had an intense reaction to that. But yes, so establishing restorative sleep—I think that plays also into the fight-or-flight [response] and using whatever you need to, [like] melatonin. I use a lot of magnesium to help with sleep and gut health. And then supporting supplementation and detoxification—I think integrative and functional medicine doctors are the best at probably doing that. That's just how I feel. And then having tons of social support—that really helps to calm the fight or flight. I think some of these women have been sick for so long and just really need that support to help them through all stages of this process.
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 41:54
And then the last thing that I think is important is lymphatic drainage. But with any toxicity, I think that you have to do that at the right time and in the right amount because you can activate all those T cells. When those toxins get moved towards the lymph glands, they can reactivate an immune process that had been quieted. So, just to be aware of that [is important]. What do you recommend?
Dr. Jill 42:22
Oh, I couldn't agree more. I feel like for patients who are either detoxing from mold or they're treating an infection like a chronic Epstein-Barr or Lyme illness or this post-surgical explantation, it's so critical to involve the lymphatics. I'll start with gentle things like dry brushing, Epsom salt baths, lymphatic massage, and drainage remedies. There are a bunch of homeopathic drainage remedies I use. Those are all gentle ways, but you can overdo it. So even with the drainage remedies, one of my favorite ones, [inaudible], is the brand. I have no association with them, but they have one for the kidneys, the liver, and the lymph. And I usually start with the lymph, then add the kidneys, and then gently add the liver. But those are all ways, and there's a lot more than that, that can help with that lymphatic [drainage]. But that's a hard one because, in allopathic medicine like you and I are trained, we don't talk much about lymph, do we?
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 43:16
Hmm. I don't remember anything about it. I remember [it being mentioned] in anatomy, but that was probably the last time I got talked about. But the lymph is everywhere. [It's] in our brain. It's a whole other system that I think is so important with detoxification.
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 43:38
So I think that is my last slide. And this is just one of my favorite pictures. I love fine art. Anyway. But thank you, Jill. And yes, I'm so glad that we were able to have this today.
Dr. Jill 43:54
Oh, this is tremendous! Dr. Kessmann, this has been absolutely phenomenal. And I know I'm getting some comments through here—people are really interested—and we're going to share this. So we'll be sure to share the information. I look forward to continuing to learn, and maybe we'll have to have you back so that we can talk even more about what we're learning. And like I said, there are often different layers. But if you are a woman and you've tried to deal with some of these other things and you're stuck, this is one consideration that I would think about. And I'm assuming you're taking on new patients, and you do consultations around this area. Is that right, Dr. Kessmann?
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 44:30
I do. I'm in the Dallas area. I have a functional medicine practice where I do consultations for many different things. But often I see implant illness, either because they know or they don't know, and somehow they were led to me through [inaudible].
Dr. Jill 44:50
They were drawn to you, yes. So where can people find you? I want to be sure to give your website. I'll put a link there as well. But what's your website?
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 44:57
Yes, it's drjenniferkessmann.com. You can find me there. Send an email to the contact page. I also operate under Kessmann Clinics. I would love to help anyone who needs some guidance.
Dr. Jill 45:16
Fantastic. Well, thank you so much for joining us today. This was fun. I will be sure to get this out to the groups and all of that. Thank you to everybody who's listening. Be sure to post your questions, because I'll come back in here. And on Facebook, do you have a professional page anywhere where people can contact you?
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 45:33
Sure, it's Jennifer Kessmann MD. That's on Facebook. And I'm on Instagram: @Jennifer.KessmannMD as well.
Dr. Jill 45:42
Awesome, everybody. Well, have a great Friday afternoon! And thank you, Dr. Kessmann. This was awesome!
Dr. Jennifer Kessmann 45:47
Thank you, Jill! I loved it!
![204: Resiliency Radio with Dr. Jill: Can our Minds Spontaneously Transform our Health? Bruce Lipton Dr. Jill 00:00 Hey guys, I am so excited to announce that the movie that you've been waiting for, the documentary Doctor/Patient, is now available for rent or purchase at DoctorPatientMovie.com. Check out the trailer here. 00:13 Dr. Jill: When I really knew something was wrong, was when I started having trouble walking up the stairs. I was supposed to be grateful and happy and healing and well and thriving, but I did not feel that way. I was so sick. Like always, I wanted to find an answer, and I had to figure it out. And I had to figure it out to save my own life. So I dove in. 00:38 James Maskell: Jill is the leading voice in biotoxin illness and chronic conditions that are driven by toxicity. 00:43 Bree Argetsinger: Oh my gosh, you're dealing with mold? You have to work with Dr. Jill Carnahan. 00:47 Patient 1: Dr. Jill is the first person that actually began to shed some light on the problem. 00:53 Dr. Jill: What I do is listen to the patient, and we together talk about what else is possible. 00:59 Patient 2: I don't know why I'm crying. 01:02 Patient 3: She saved my life. 01:06 Dr. Jill: The deepest lessons and most profound insights come in the suffering, come in the dark moments. Self-compassion is the healing transition that shifts something inside of us. It's actually the thing that we need most in order to heal. 01:26 Narrator: Doctor/Patient—available now at DoctorPatientMovie.com. Dr. Jill 01:36 Hey, welcome to Resiliency Radio, your go-to podcast for cutting-edge insights in functional and integrative medicine. I'm your host, Dr. Jill. In each episode, we dive into the heart of healing and personal transformation. Join us as we connect with renowned experts, thought leaders, and innovators who are at the forefront of medical research, empowering you with knowledge and wisdom to overcome illness in your journey to optimal health. Dr. Jill 02:02 Hey guys, if you don't already know, if you've been around me at all, you know my movie, Doctor/Patient is now out. You can view it, share it, gift it, or rent it at DoctorPatientMovie.com. Be sure to check it out and then I would love to hear your feedback after you've had a chance to watch it. Dr. Jill 02:19 Today, I am deeply honored to have guest Bruce Lipton here with me. He's a PhD, a cell biologist, a lecturer, and an internationally recognized leader in bridging science and spirit. We were just talking before we came on about how he has been a leader [for] decades before a lot of us in functional/integrative medicine came along. And I am so excited! If you're a doctor listening—and I know I have a lot of audience there—you are in for a treat. If you're a patient, you're also in for a treat. Stay tuned. Dr. Jill 02:47 Bruce was on the faculty of the University of Wisconsin School of Medicine and later performed groundbreaking stem cell research at Stanford University. He's a best-selling author of The Biology of Belief—if you haven't read that book, it's a classic now—The Honeymoon Effect, and the co-author with Steve Bhaerman of Spontaneous Evolution. Bruce received his prestigious 2009 Goi Peace Award from Japan in honor of his scientific contribution to world harmony. Bruce, it is a true honor and delight to have you here! Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 03:17 Jill, I am a happy person to be here because this audience that I get a chance to talk to, to me, is a very important audience. These are the cultural creatives that are paving the way for the future that we need to get into very soon because we're facing an evolutionary upheaval at this very moment. Whether you watch the news, surf the web, or even look out your window, the whole planet has experienced chaos at every level of it. People are focusing on the little chaos, like focusing on the trees, without pulling back to see the biggest thing that's happening and nobody's saying the words. NASA—Let me just say NASA's words. NASA has recognized that within the next 20 years, civilization is facing—and this is my emphasis here—an irreversible collapse. The reason is so mathematically simple. Let me give the math. Dr. Jill 04:16 Sure. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 04:17 Science has recognized that to continue living just the way we're living—just say, let's every day live the way we're living today on this planet—it takes 1.6 planet Earths to provide the resources for today's civilization. The simple math is this: There's one Earth subtracted from 1.6, and we're recognizing: "Where the hell are we getting the extra points?" Dr. Jill 04:39 We're in a deficit. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 04:40 And that deficit is leading to the destruction of the web of life. We have to also recognize this: Even though the Bible is giving us some fanciful story that nature was created and then humans were added on top of nature—no, we evolved from nature. We are nature. If nature goes down, humans go down, because we are part of this web of life. Our separation in our consciousness [that causes us to believe] that we can dominate nature, I say, "How's that working?" I say, "We're facing an extinction." That's a biological reality at this moment. It's called a mass extinction. It happened five times in the history of this planet: Life was thriving, [then] mass extinction. It knocked it all out and then it started again. We are there because of our behavior. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 05:33 And I say, "Our behavior is based on our consciousness." I go: "Okay, wait a second. Is that New Age?" I go: "No, let's stop. No New Age here at this moment." [In] 1927—day one, quantum physics—Max Planck, the founding father of quantum physics, states: "The mind is the creator of our life experiences." Quantum physics—the most valid of all the sciences today in the sense of its predictions and accuracy. Quantum physics. And it's still the belief in quantum physics: Consciousness is controlling this. And I go: "So if consciousness is controlling this, then why are we in such a mess?" The answer is: We have been programmed, and the programming has disempowered us all. It has disempowered us as patients. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 06:28 I go: "I'll give you a program that disempowers you right now." I say, "What is it?" "It's called genetic determinism." That was what I was teaching in medical school: Genes control the character of life. I go: "Did we pick the genes as far as we know? No. But if we don't like the characters we have, can we change the genes? No, can't do that." And then let's just add a little tidbit: Genes turn on and off by themselves. And I say: "You put those together and what have you done? You have told the patients that their lives are not in their control, they're controlled by their heredity, and that they're victims of heredity. Which is victims of what? Genetics. And what does a person know about genetics? Nothing. Who does know something? The doctor. Aha! The program is: When it comes to health, people do not trust themselves." They say: "I need an expert opinion. I'm not knowledgeable." They accept the truth from somebody else. Dr. Jill 07:28 I so love the direction that you're going here because, as a physician, one of the most important things I can do is empower the patient and make sure that they don't think that I am the end-all-be-all. [I want them to know] that we are collaborating and that I listen to them, and I say: "How do you feel about this treatment plan? Where do you want to go?" Granted, if I have wisdom, I can give them that information, but they still get to make that decision. But so many patients are outsourcing that wisdom to someone. Or, at least paternalistically and historically, that has been the way. And what we need to do is take control of our own health. Dr. Jill 08:00 How many patients have gone through a loved one with breast cancer—I'm a breast cancer survivor, so I can speak on this—and they're told, "You have the BRCA gene and you need to have a bilateral mastectomy"? I'm going to be strong about this because I disagree. That's an action out of fear. To each his own, so if you've been out there and have done something based on your genetics, there's no judgment here. But what we're saying is that you actually have control over the expression of those genes. So why don't you go into epigenetics for those who don't know what that means and tell us a little primer on epigenetics and why we have more control than we think? Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 08:34 Okay. The most important thing—and this is all scientific, so this is not any new age BS here, folks, this is science—I say: "What is it?" The belief that genes turn on and off is a completely false statement because a gene is a blueprint to make a protein. The proteins are the building blocks. Proteins wear out; you have to replace them. So you have to have a blueprint. It's called a gene. I go, "It's a blueprint!" I go, "Why is that relevant?" I say: "Go to an architect's office. She's working on a blueprint. You ask her, 'Hey, is your blueprint on or off?' She would look at you like, 'What are you talking about? There's no on and off to a blueprint.'" I go: "Aha! Aha! A gene is a blueprint. What you want to find out is: Who's the architect who reads the blueprint? The blueprint does not read itself. There's an architect." Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 09:24 I saw this in my research in 1967. None of you were probably old enough to know what I'm talking about—1967! But I was cloning stem cells. Let's give the real name of a stem cell: An embryonic cell. It's an embryo's cell. It replaces things that are broken and gets a new one. I go: "So what? I clone the stem cell." I say, "What's that?" I say: "You put one stem cell in the culture dish. And then what? It divides every 10 or 12 hours." So first there's one, then there's 2, then there's 4, 8, and 16. A week later, [there are] 30,000 cells in the petri dish. What's the most important fact? They all came from one parent. I have 30,000 genetically identical cells. I split them into three petri dishes—one, two, three. Each dish has 10,000, 10,000, 10,000, all genetically the same. We grow cells in a culture medium. Ah, this is going to be the tricky part, for when you get this, the world changes. I'm going to come back to it. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 10:27 I say: "A culture medium is what the cells grow in in the lab. And I make it up by putting the chemistry or culture medium. Since I'm creating it, I can change some of the constituents. So I make three different versions of culture medium, A, B, and C." So I say, "So what?" Each one represents a different environment because the cells live in a culture medium. So I say: "Okay, dish one, environment A—the cells form muscle. Dish two, environment B—the cells form bone. Dish three, environment C—the cells form fat cells." I'm doing this experiment. I'm teaching genetic determinism, and I'm watching the cells and going— Dr. Jill 11:10 Wait a second. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 11:11 —"Wait a second, who controlled the activity?" They were all genetically the same. What was different? The environment. The chemistry of the environment selected the genes. The genes did not select themselves. Then, all of a sudden, I said, "Why is this important?" It's a revolution! I'll tell you why. Genetic determinism: Victim. The new science, epigenetics, which I'll explain: Master. Why? Because you control the environment. It's the environment that controls the cells. It's called epigenetics. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 11:48 [There's a] simple reason why the name [is what it is]. What do we call skin? Epidermis. Why? What's under the skin? A layer called dermis. What's the skin above the dermis? Epidermis. Epi: Above. Epigenetics: Control above the genes. I go, "Whoa, the control is not in the genes." I said: "No, it's to control the environment that the genes live in." I go, "Well, wait, I control the environment." Aha! If you control the environment, then you control the genetics. And that's all of a sudden where the new science comes in. The genetic determinism: Victim. Epigenetics: Master. You control your genes. So basically, what I saw back in 1967 was, "The genes didn't make this decision." Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 12:48 Now let's just jump ahead a second here because that's a basic science. And then I'm going to give you this, which you're totally aware of: You are a skin-covered petri dish. You have 50 trillion cells under your skin and you have the original culture medium. What is a culture medium? I didn't say it before, but I'll tell you where it is: A laboratory version of blood. When I grow human cells, I concoct a culture medium based on the constituents of human blood or mouse blood, depending on which cells I'm growing. What's the point? You are a skin-covered culture dish with what? The original culture medium. You have the blood. The blood carries the chemistry, which activates the genes. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 13:34 So the first point: Scientifically, it doesn't make a difference if the cell is in a plastic dish or a skin dish? I said, "No, it's the environment." And I say the environment in your body is the blood for the cells. Then come two questions that blow the game into a new evolution. Question number one: What controls the chemistry of the blood? The answer is the brain. It's the chemist. The big one—here it is, hold on: What chemistry should the brain put into the blood? You know what it is? Whatever picture you hold in your mind, the brain translates the picture into complimentary chemistry that matches the picture. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 14:25 I say, "So why is this important?" The picture in your head becomes material in your body. You manifest what you're thinking. I go: "Wait a minute. Would I manifest this life? Would I manifest my cancer?" I go, "Yes." I go, "You say that so affirmatively." I go: "Quantum physics—the most valid science principle number one [is that] the mind is the creator of our experience." I go: "Well, epigenetics is the biological component of that physics mechanism." Epigenetics is how the mind adjusts the genetics of the body. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 15:05 And I go, "We're facing a healthcare crisis on this planet." I go, "Yes, we are facing a healthcare crisis." And I go, "What's responsible?" We put all the money into science. You know what we're looking for? We're looking for the gene—the gene that controls that problem. Guess what? Less than 1% of all diseases on this planet have any connection with genes. Wait, then that means only less than 1% of what we diagnose as disease is connected with genes. I go, "Yes, that's a fact." Then what is really contributing to the worldwide crisis in healthcare? The answer is: Stress is 90% the cause of disease, minimum. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 15:54 I go: "Okay, come on! How could that do that?" Let's give the biology because it's not New Age again. You're ready? When you're in stress, you're in threat. When you're in threat, you engage a protection response. I say, "What is a protection response?" The protection response is: When you perceive stress, you will release stress hormones, adrenal hormones. I go, "Yes, so what?" Well, what do you think the adrenal hormones do? They prepare the body for fight or flight. I go, "So what?" I say: "First of all, there are three stages to take a body from health, happiness, joy—I'm in the garden, I love my life—to 'Ah! A sabertooth tiger's chasing me!'" I say, "So I have to switch from growth, boom, into protection." Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 16:41 How does that happen? Three steps. Number one, stress hormones cause the blood vessels in the gut to constrict. Why? Because most of the blood is in the gut. I say, "Who cares?" I say: "Ah, but the blood is a source of energy. So if you need energy, you need blood." So I say, "So what's the point?" I say: "Most of the blood is in the gut, taking care of the body, cleaning, fixing, repairing, nourishing, and doing all those things. But the moment stress hormones come in, the blood vessels squeeze shut. People feel it in the body." "It's queasy. I feel very queasy when I'm in fear like this." Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 17:16 I say: "But some people say butterflies in the stomach. Why?" The fluttering of the blood vessels shutting down—you can feel it. And it's a fluttering. And what's happening? The blood is being pushed to the arms and legs, and that's where I need to run away from that damn tiger. So number one, redistribute the blood. Where do I take it from? [From] growth and maintenance to protection. So I'm not funding growth and maintenance when I'm running from the tiger. I go, "No, you're not." Number two, the immune system is to protect me on the inside. If I'm being chased by a saber-toothed tiger, then what's the value of the immune system? Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 17:55 I'll give you a scenario. Come on, doctors, listen to this. The patient's got a bacterial infection. They're going to have a real bad case of diarrhea coming up here and they're being chased by a saber-toothed tiger. How would you split the energy of the body? How much to support the immune system and how much of that energy to run away from the saber-toothed tiger? I'll give you a second. Okay, thank you. The answer is, of course, who cares about the immune system? If the tiger chased you, the bacteria are not your problem anymore, that's for sure. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 18:26 Listen, stress hormones shut down the immune system to conserve energy. And you know damn well that when people are sick, sometimes they don't even have the energy to get out of bed because the immune system uses a hell of a lot of energy. If you're being chased by a tiger: I can't support the immune system because if the tiger gets me, who cares about what's happening in the interior?—it's not mine anymore. It's so important—in fact, therapeutic—that when they transplant an organ from person A into person B and they don't want immunological rejection, they give the recipient stress hormones before the operation. That restricts the function of the immune system so it doesn't immediately reject the foreign graft. Ah, so stress hormones are used therapeutically to shut off the immune system. So I say, "Yes, what do you think stress does automatically?" That's number two. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 19:21 Number three, conscious processing is slow compared to reflex behavior. Conscious [processing] is like, "Oh, let me think." Reflex is boom! Boom! Like that. The point is, if you're running from a saber-toothed tiger, conscious processing is going to delay your nervous system because you'll be thinking. When that tiger is coming, guess what? Remember the role of the stress hormone—to squeeze the blood vessels here? They squeeze the blood vessels in the forebrain. I say, "Why?" Because it stops the blood flow from going to the conscious mind. Where's it going? The hindbrain—reflex behavior. Result: We become less intelligent in the fear process. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 20:11 So I say: "Let's put these all together. I shut down growth, I shut down the immune system, and I shut off conscious awareness." I go: "When was that system formed?" "Oh, a couple hundred thousand years ago." I say: "What was it responding to?" "The saber-toothed tiger?" I go: "So what was important?" "If you escape that tiger for five minutes or ten minutes, there's no more saber-toothed tiger, no more stress." So it was used for five to ten minutes. Shut it down [for] five to ten minutes; we'll come back later. In today's world—you know the whole thing—every day, every minute, we're in stress. The system was never designed for chronic stress. It shuts down the vitality, health, and maintenance of the body. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 21:01 The stresses of this world are responsible for over 90% of healthcare crises. This is recognized by the American Psychological Society: 95% of visits to doctors' offices [are] stress-related. I was a programmer. And I'm not proud now because, when I programmed, people used to believe in genetic determinism. I go: "No, no. I was wrong. Epigenetics, okay?" But we've been programmed to be victims. Dr. Jill 21:32 Yes. First of all, I think doctors are starting, at least in my realm of functional/integrative—we're talking epigenetics; we're using this. And I just want to share a personal example to bring home what you just shared. It's so important. Many of my listeners know that at 25, I had breast cancer, then Crohn's disease, and then autoimmunity. I'm the poster child. What I remember very clearly is that in my 30s, I got mold-related toxicity. My immune system was terribly trashed and overactive and I was under high stress. I remember one day walking along and realizing: "This stress that is in my body is actually killing me." I had the mentality [of] "beating cancer," "fighting cancer," "fighting this," "fighting that"—fighting, fighting, fighting—which is your saber-toothed tiger [description]. I was in fight or flight. Dr. Jill 22:16 The day I realized that was the day I realized I could also reprogram my immune system through my thoughts. That day I started thinking [up] a new paradigm, thinking about these little yellow minions being my immune system. They were helping escort mold toxicity out of my body without this fight because, [in] fight or flight, there's no healing. And now, today, I'm healed from that and from mold-related illness and all of this. But it's really that moment when I realized I could change my thought process, change the function of my immune system, recover from Crohn's, cancer, and toxic mold, and no longer fight. Dr. Jill 22:53 And the most important message, as you brought home, is that when I'm sitting with a patient, if they're in fear, if they are in fight or flight, and if they are feeling unsafe in their body, there is no amount of pills, supplements, IVs, nutrition, or even good advice that I can give them… Unless they go to that place of unsafeness, that place of fear, that place where they're still somatically running from the tiger. We have to change that, and it starts with this. Dr. Jill 23:22 So I love, love, love that you framed this. And I just want to give you credit because you've been doing this work for decades before anyone else was talking about it. And now we're seeing it. And finally, doctors in my field are starting to acknowledge and talk about it. But even in my field, functional medicine is a lot about supplements, diet, and lifestyle. That's all great. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 23:40 Well, that's environment! Dr. Jill 23:41 Right? Right. Actually, that's the thing I was going to mention too. My specialty is environmental toxicity, so I know the petri dish of how it affects our bodies. But I do believe, as you're saying, that this reprogramming of our mind… Do you have any stories or examples, maybe from your book, of a patient, client, or somebody who has read your book who really took this and changed from there? Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 24:03 I've got hundreds and hundreds of letters from people who've written. There were two things about this. Let me express it even in my personal life. I understood this from a scientific point of view. Man, it was in my laboratory, my research. It was repeatable; I could do this all the time. It took 23 years before science caught up with that observation. I [inaudible] a lot of other things in between to conform. And the reality is that our own understanding about our frailty—it's an understanding. And then I give an understanding of, "No, we're very powerful." Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 24:42 I was so happy to go and find an audience of doctors and people: "Let me explain how to create the most wonderful life. Here's the science!" And then they'd come to my lecture and they'd look at me and go: "Lipton, your life doesn't look that good for a guy who says you know this." Oh my God, I was caught. You know what it was? Talking the talk, not walking the talk. I knew the science. It was in my head. Did I make it part of my life? No! I say: "So what was the point? I don't care how smart you are; if you don't make a part of your life, it's irrelevant." Totally! Then all of a sudden, when I caught myself going, "Oh, do as I say, not as I do," it's like, "I can't do that!" So I had to say: "Stop lecturing. Start living your life with the principles you are telling other people. Live this now." How long did it take me to change my life? Oh, within a month, my life was completely on a whole different spectrum. And it was like, "Now, of course, I start talking about it again," because it was real. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 25:47 Let me just give a simple understanding, a scientific understanding, and that is this: The mind is not one thing. "Oh, the mind." I go: "No, not the mind. There are two minds. And they're interdependent, but they have different functions." The conscious mind, the latest evolution: The prefrontal cortex, right behind your forehead, [is] the seat of the conscious mind. What's that? The conscious mind is your source, your personal identity, your spiritual place. What else is it? It's creative! That's what makes humans different than all the other animals. We can take ideas, boom, build them, and create in the conscious mind. What about the subconscious mind? Oh, the original one? Hard drive, programs, habits, stored behavior. Thinking? Uh-uh. Just behavior—program. Dr. Jill 26:38 The subconscious has no way to differentiate truth, right? It does whatever you tell it to do. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 26:44 No, well, the subconscious doesn't do what you tell it to do; it does what it tells it to do. The subconscious is the autopilot. I say, yes, the mind works, but you have to understand that when I'm in the conscious mind, that is the creative side. That's the side with wishes, desires, and aspirations. What do you want? Conscious mind. Subconscious mind: Program. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 27:09 I say, "So what's the issue with our life when it comes down to it?" The monkey wrench that blows the whole thing out is that when the conscious mind is thinking, it's not paying attention to the outer world. A thought is inside. When you're present, your conscious mind is looking at the world and engaging the world. Right now, in front of it, I'm engaging it. But if I'm thinking, my conscious mind is no longer looking out; it's looking in because a thought is on the inside. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 27:38 So I say, "Wait, what if I'm driving the car and I have a thought?" And I've got to tell you, in fact: Then you're not driving the car. "What do you mean? No accident or nothing." I say: "Driving is a program. You don't have to think about driving." In fact, most of the time, if you've been driving for a long time, you never think about the details of driving. It's an automatic behavioral program. It plays when you're not paying attention. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 28:02 I go: "Aha! When the conscious mind is thinking, it's not paying attention to the outer world. Why? It's inside." So I say: Walking, driving, talking, doing your job—hey, those are habits. You've been doing it all—whatever [it is]—for a long period of time. You don't have to re-learn it. It's automatic. Do you even have to think about walking? No, you didn't even have to say: "Oh, I'm going to walk from here to there. I'm going to get that." I say: "Walking is automatic. You don't think about it—program." Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 28:37 So then comes the number and this is scientific: Ninety-five percent of the day is the average person's amount of thinking. Then what does that represent? Biologically, only five percent of the day are you creating your life with the conscious mind's wishes and desires. Ninety-five percent of the day your life is coming from programs that you downloaded mainly before age seven. And I go, "Where did I get the programs?" I go: "Before age seven, your brain is not primarily functioning at the level of consciousness, which in EEG terms is alpha, beta, and gamma. When you're under seven, you're operating primarily at theta, which is just below consciousness." Theta—imagination. Hey, the tea party: Pour nothing into the cup. Drink the nothing. "The best tea I ever had in my life!" That's imagination. That's theta. That's what kids do all the time. They can have imaginary friends. They play with them all the time. It's imagination. Theta is hypnosis. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 29:41 I go, "Why is that important?" How many rules does it take to be a member of a family? How many rules does it take to be a member of a community? Now we're talking thousands. I go, "Why is that important?" I said, "Well, teach an infant a thousand rules." I go: "They can't read a book. They can't sit in a classroom. They can't understand a video." I said: "How are they going to learn?" Nature took care of that. Nature gave the first seven years theta, which is hypnosis. You want to know the behavior? Watch your mother, watch your father, watch your community. Watch their behavior; download it. Now it's your behavior! Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 30:19 So the behavior that's in your subconscious mind didn't even come from you, did it? Nope, it came from other people. And did they answer your wishes and desires—what you'd like? Not necessarily. So then, are there programs in there that give you what your wishes and desires are? Not necessarily, no. In fact, I say, "So what about these programs?" Sixty percent of the things you downloaded as a kid—sixty percent of the subconscious programs [are] disempowering, self-sabotaging, and limiting beliefs. And you operate ninety-five percent of the day from them. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 30:53 Ah, but here's the monkey wrench you didn't catch! Why am I using my subconscious programs? Because my conscious mind's not paying attention; it's thinking. Well, then, do you see the programs when they come out? I go: "Nope! You're the only one who doesn't even see the program!" Why? Everybody else around you is responding to your program. You're not even paying attention [to] what the hell is coming out. Sixty percent of it [is] disempowering yourself. So the issue is this: We are not controlling our lives. Our program controls our lives. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 31:28 I say, "Oh, this is a new science." I go: "Scientifically, this is valid. This is understanding theta activity, downloading programs, conscious, subconscious, blah, blah, blah, blah." But the Jesuits knew about programming for 400 years. They would tell their followers, "Give me a child until it is seven, and I will show you the man." Oh my God, that's 100% right! The programming is before age seven, and 95% of the life is the program. They knew it. They created Catholic schools to help the programming go along. And that idea is never lost because if you can watch an infant today, which I've seen carrying an iPad, interacting with a program on a computer, that's far better programming than Jesuits could ever have thought of. Dr. Jill 32:17 Yes, it's clear, isn't it? That's a really good transition because one of the things I see as the biggest crisis in healthcare is environment, but it's environment that is no longer socially interactive or present. We're numbing ourselves out with machines, with iPads, and with phones. They are designed to create an addictive behavior, so they're tapping into some of those subconscious programs, right? Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 32:40 And let me just add this to that: It's not just that behavior, but it's also creating disempowering behaviors. So these programs—as you were just going to say, and I'll let you have it back again—were not designed to help us; they were designed to control us. Dr. Jill 33:05 Yes. And sell and control. Yes, so we are pawns in this new world of technology that is neurodynamically designed to be addictive. If you haven't seen The Social Dilemma, that's a great place to start in your education on social media and the impact. I do want to talk about this. One of the things you just got done saying is that before seven, we're programmed. I totally understand and believe that. But the truth is, we have the power to change that programming. Tell us about that. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 33:36 Most everybody out there has changed that programming. I say, "You've already done it." I say: "What, the movie The Matrix, being a documentary, everybody's programmed?" Yes, of course, that's the foundational belief of the movie and the reality. And in the movie, they offered the red pill. And I say: "What was the red pill? You get out of the program!" Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 33:54 I go, "Almost everybody out here right now listening has done that." I say: "What was the consequence? How did it happen?" I'm going to tell you. Falling in love is a red pill. I go, "What do you mean?" Because when you first fall in love, you stop thinking. Biologically, you stay present; you stay in the conscious, creative mind. You've waited for this person your whole life. They're there. What, you want to start thinking and then ignore them? Are you kidding me? You stay up conscious. You stay mindful. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 34:23 I say, "So what happened?" I say: "Your life up to meeting that person: Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You meet them [and] 24 hours later: 'Oh, man, life is beautiful. Life is so wonderful. Hey, the food's really good. That music is even better than I ever thought it was.'" And even the crappy job is not so crappy. I said: "What'd you do?" You made honeymoon. What's honeymoon? Heaven on earth. I said, "What was your heaven on earth?" Whatever you wished and desired. You and a partner coming together when you're both wishing and desiring, you're sharing the same wishes and desires, you manifest a honeymoon. Oops, I dropped something, but okay. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 35:01 Is the honeymoon already there? I go, "The honeymoon's always there." I said, "Then how come you don't have it?" Because when you start thinking, you then go back to subconscious control, the default. And the problem is, why do 50% of marriages end up in divorce? The answer is this: Marriage has started with the relationship of two conscious creative minds sharing together a belief in creating a honeymoon, and it ends when thinking enters into the people and they start playing their regular programs, which are 60% negative. The partner hears these programs. The one saying the thing doesn't hear it; the other one hears it. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 35:43 I love the response. When somebody comes out in a relationship and the loving partner hears some kind of BS come out of their other partner, they look at them and go: "Who are you? Where did you come from?" What? It was never part of the behavior. And then, all of a sudden, it shows up. And the more thinking, the more that negativity shows up. There's a point where a partner will say: "That's enough. That's not why I signed up here. I signed up because we had a great honeymoon." After you started thinking, this thing went right down the tube. The point is, that's what reality is about. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 36:18 So the idea then becomes simple, which is the obvious thing: "What if I created all programs that represented my wishes and desires—if I had those programs?" I said: "Oh, you know what? Whether you're consciously creating those wishes and desires or your conscious mind is off in left field, your subconscious will be manifesting the wishes and desires. And guess what? A honeymoon is not a short period. A honeymoon is every day of your life for as long as you live." Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 36:46 Does it work? Personally, I had some very bad programming when I was young because my mother and father had a dysfunctional relationship. I downloaded my father's dysfunctional behavior. I played it when I couldn't see it. The result is that I couldn't get relationships off the ground. Then I understood the nature of the programming. Then I understand the nature of reprogramming. Around 50, I met my partner, Margaret. We just celebrated 28 years! And I'm not selling just a relationship; I'm talking honeymoon for 28 years. To wake up every day in my life and go: "Oh my God, I'm still here. Oh my God, I have another day to smell the roses, to have a piece of cake, to enjoy the love, watch the environment, and love my life." I celebrate life. Jill celebrates life. What's the result? Where's the illness? What illness? Dr. Jill 37:45 Yes! I love that. There are some points that I think are so crucial that you just made, number one, being present with our partners, watching them in real time and observing them. So often we create a program of them, a template, and then we don't expect them to change. Or, we expect them to behave the same. And when we're in real time, present with another person—whether it's a friend, family member, business associate, or lover—we can respond in real time. And that's part of that co-creation that you're talking about. It's crucial. Dr. Jill 38:15 The other thing is that with illness, I find one thing that was—I'm sure this is related to the program, [and] I'd love your comments—I never identified with the cancer. I never became the cancer. I never made that part of who I was. Even now, I'm like, "Oh yes, 20 years ago, I had cancer." And of course, it's real, but it's almost foreign because it was never part of me. And I really believe that's a huge part of why I overcame a very, very aggressive cancer at the age of 25—because it never was my identity. Do you want to talk about that a little bit? Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 38:44 Yes, let's just talk about this. The first thing is that I'm going to give a fact of science [to] which [a person might say], "He really said that?" And I'm going to say, yes, I'm going to say this. There's not one gene that causes cancer. There's not a gene [where], "You have this gene, you get cancer." The one scary one for women, of course, [is] the breast cancer gene. I go, "So what?" I go: "Women who carry the breast cancer gene don't necessarily have to have cancer. As a matter of fact, nearly half of them don't get cancer. But they have the gene." So then I say, "Then where did the cancer come from?"—because those who have the cancer with the gene and those who are healthy with the gene have the same gene. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 39:20 What's the difference? The answer is this: Cancer is correlated with a gene, not caused by a gene. Cancer is caused by disharmony in the system. Disharmony is the source of disease. Harmony is the source of health. Disharmony means your programming wasn't really good, and you're responding to things in a negative way that is going to cause a breakdown of the system. That's where the stress comes into it. So the concept is this: The image—even if once you tell a woman, "Yes, you have the breast cancer gene," what the hell image do you think is going to be in her head? The answer is: Cancer. I go: "Yes, but isn't the function of the mind to take the image of the head and turn it into reality?" I go, "Absolutely! What's the consequence?" Ninety percent of cancer has no genetic linkage at all. Dr. Jill 40:14 Yes. That was the biggest question I got as a 25-year-old. Every single person, to a T: "Oh, did you have genes?" No, I didn't have genes. I had a dysfunctional system when I was in my 20s. That goes into a whole other lecture that I could give, but I was not living consciously. And there were some things, stress-wise, that were contributing. And it was the environmental toxic load. So all of these things are the petri dish. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 40:38 And more than that, there must have been the two programs. Eighty to ninety percent of all people will not test positive for two beliefs. Number one, and I think the most important, is the belief, "I love myself." Eighty percent of people will not test positive for that belief. Number two, and this is the one where the healthcare crisis comes from: "I am safe." When you have a picture of fear, then the chemistry of fear is to manifest the fear. When they say "This is it" and [show you] a picture of the tumor and everything, then you make the chemistry of the tumor. Then the idea is that we have to own quantum physics. Consciousness is the source of our life experiences. We have to understand the nature of epigenetics. Consciousness is the source of what controls our genes. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 41:07 The third thing that I think is part of the Renaissance that we really must emphasize at some point is Newtonian physics, which separates physical from non-physical, matter versus energy. It's an illusion. It's not real. But it programs us in a very bad way because the program says: "Whatever is made out of matter can only be affected by matter. Whatever is made out of energy can only be affected by energy." And I say, "So what's the consequence?" I say: "The body is matter. And what do you think the whole foundation of the pharmaceutical company is? The body is matter and we make the matter to fix the matter." Dr. Jill 42:16 Yes. What's the matter with that? [laughs] Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 42:18 Three hundred thousand people die in the US every year from prescription drugs, that's what's the matter with it, when less than 50,000—I think 30,000—people die from illegal drugs. We have a war on illegal drugs, and 300,000 people dying from pharmaceutical drugs is called the cost of doing medicine. I go: "That's damn expensive! We don't need that." Simple law of science: If a drug works, it only works because you already had a receptor for that drug on you. Do you think nature put receptors on cells, waiting for the pharmaceutical company to make a drug? No, come on, man! If you have a receptor for a drug, it's because you have a receptor for a drug that you make. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 43:01 I go, "I can make any drug." Of course, because any drug works because you have a receptor to connect it. If you have a receptor, then you obviously have a signal that will bind to that receptor. Then you say, "Well, it's not working." And that's where everything gets screwed up because that system isn't working and then you go right away: "Oh, the body is defective. The genes aren't working right. There's an interference with the physical." I go, "Yes, there was an interference because it didn't start down here; it started up here." And once you start to understand this, yes, treat the body if there's an immediate need to treat the body, but the process of treating the patient is treating this part. Knowledge is power. They do not have the knowledge of who they are. They're programmed [to think]: "I'm a victim of my genes and I have no power." I go, "Well, there's your problem." Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 43:54 And the issue about it is that you guys are in the front of the evolution that says: Okay, I can treat the patient, but I've really got to treat the consciousness of the patient. Why? Because, as quantum physics says, consciousness is the source of this creativity, and as epigenetics says, consciousness is the source of this expression. You cannot leave that out. Dr. Jill 44:18 You just talked about two beliefs that I think are critical and it's a great place to kind of wrap up. The first one is: Do we love ourselves? Do we really, really, truly love and accept ourselves? I have written a book and done a movie on that message. The heart of healing is: How do we show self-compassion and love? Because that is the only way that our cells will respond in health. Dr. Jill 44:41 The second thing was so crucial too, and that is the fear and the unsafety. This is where a physician in the office can make all the difference, because if they add to that fear message, guess what? That's just adding to that patient's unhealth. So one thing we are obligated to do as physicians is create a safe environment and teach that patient how to start to feel safe in their body. With those two beliefs, maybe in the last couple of minutes here, could you maybe give us some practical advice for somebody who's like: "How do I start doing that, Bruce? How do I feel safe in my body? And how do I love myself?" Because that, I couldn't agree more with you, is really the core message here. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 45:19 I'll tell you, let's get right to the root of why people do not love themselves. The answer is: Because parents act like coaches on a sports team. I go, "What does that mean?" A player isn't doing well. What does the coach say? "Oh, do better." No! The coach says: "That's not good enough. Who do you think you are? You don't deserve to be on this team." Well, a player is older than seven. They're in consciousness. They understand that the coach is saying, "You better do better!" Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 45:47 Now let's say the parent is the coach and the kid is under seven. There's no consciousness operating. What's operating? Hypnosis, programming. So when the father says, "That's not good enough, you don't deserve this, you're not lovable, you don't belong," blah, blah, blah—acting like the coach who says, "This is going to make them do better"—if the kid is under seven, you just programmed them to self-sabotage because the subconscious is going to create 95% of their life. And if I get a program "I do not deserve," when I'm thinking 95% of the day, what the hell program is running? "I do not deserve." So I could say something so stupid in my corporate structure or something, and somebody says, "That guy doesn't deserve to be here." And then, all of a sudden, I'm kicked out of the structure. Why? Because I myself made behavior to conform to "not good enough" and to not love myself. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 46:41 This is why that one's so important—because if you can't love yourself, I'm going to be honest, you can't accept love from somebody else. I go, "Why?" Because they say they love you, but in your mind, you're going: "Well, they don't know me, man. I know I'm not lovable." And you'll push them away. And then you'll find yourself with nobody around. And guess what you'll say? "You see?! I'm not lovable!" [inaudible] You just did that. And when it comes to "Do I have any power?" the answer is: No, it has been systematically deprived of them. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 46:59 I've got a minute; I've got to say this because this is really cool. There's a power struggle in the world. It's always been this way. There are three levels of power. Number one, caveman. Who's the biggest badass with the biggest club? Whatever they say, do it. They've got the power. Evolution came along. There are people then who control the resources that you need. And all of a sudden they say, "If you want those resources, you've got to give me something for this." And you know what? The ones who had the resources paid the caveman to hit you over the head if you didn't pay for the resources. Dr. Jill 47:53 A personal hitman. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 47:55 That's the king who owns the resources with an army of cavemen. Then I say, "But the last of the power struggles came down to 'knowledge is power.'" And it was recognized that, yes, that is the supreme power of everything. Knowledge is power. The first thing the church of Rome did was acknowledge: "We are the source of infallible knowledge. We are the source of truth. We say it; it's true." Well, you say, "I don't care." The point about it was that people gave up their power to the belief. And I say it here very quickly: There's a code behind the power brokers. I call it the powermongers' credo. I say, "What is it?" Are you ready? Give them the fear for free and then sell them the antidote. Dr. Jill (pre-recording) 48:46 Hey, everybody. I just stopped by to let you know that my new book, Unexpected: Finding Resilience through Functional Medicine, Science, and Faith, is now available for order wherever you purchase books. In this book, I share my own journey of overcoming a life-threatening illness and the tools, tips, tricks, hope, and resilience I found along the way. This book includes practical advice for things like cancer and Crohn's disease and other autoimmune conditions, infections like Lyme or Epstein-Barr, and mold- and biotoxin-related illnesses. What I really hope is that as you read this book, you find transformational wisdom for health and healing. If you want to get your own copy, stop by ReadUnexpected.com. There, you can also collect your free bonuses. So grab your copy today and begin your own transformational journey through functional medicine and finding resilience. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 50:59 "What do you want me to do? Put a mask on? Sure. I'll mask on. I can't visit my mom, who's dying in a nursing home?" "No, you have to give that up because you can't do that." "Really?" Dr. Jill 51:09 Yes. If you're controlled, then fear created the biology of illness. It really, really is a great analogy. Bruce, this has been so fun to dive deep. I love talking to you. I love your enthusiasm. I love your wisdom. And I love most of all that you were so far ahead of the curve because people are kind of coming along to this belief. But the truth is, you were one of the very first ones writing and talking about this. And I'm just grateful that way back in the day, in the lab, you saw this and started writing about it. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 51:44 I can't be any happier than I am for myself! I have a different life! I have a different life than before that discovery. Dr. Jill 51:53 Yes. And it transforms us all, too. I have many stories, the same thing, of me continuing to transform because of this knowledge. Thank you for the work that you do. Thank you for spending your time with us today!](https://www.jillcarnahan.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/Bruce-Lipton-Biology-of-Belief-Can-Your-Mind-Spontaneously-Transform-Your-Health_-WEB-1.jpg)
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