In Episode #84, Dr. Jill interviews Bree Argetsinger, aka Betty Rocker on How to Rock (and love) Your Body! Learn to listen to your body's need for sleep, nutrition, stress management, and exercise, in an “all or something” approach to living a healthy lifestyle.
Key Points:
- Listening to what your body needs for optimal health
- 4 Pillars of Health: sleep, nutrition, stress management, exercise
- All or SOMEthing, not all or NOthing
- How to batch your cooking and order food when eating out to optimize eating wellness.
- Embrace Your Flawsomeness
Our Guest – Betty Rocker (Bree Argetsinger)
Website: https://thebettyrocker.com/
Instagram https://www.instagram.com/thebettyrocker/
FB https://www.facebook.com/thebettyrocker
YT: https://www.youtube.com/user/TheBettyRocker
Bree Argetsinger, aka The Betty Rocker is an internationally known health and fitness coach, innovative entrepreneur and motivator of self growth. Over 3 million people have taken her free 30-day #makefatcry home workout challenge, and hundreds of thousands more enjoy success in her online home workout studio Rock Your Life, and with her nutrition and fitness programs and challenges.
She incorporates a strong holistic focus on body balancing, self-kindness and alignment into her work, thanks to her background as a hands-on structural alignment practitioner and her training in the CHEK corrective, high-performance exercise kinesiologist program. Hailed as a “gateway to personal growth through food and fitness” she takes an accessible “all or something” approach to living a healthy lifestyle of balance and encourages women to listen to their bodies, trust themselves, and remember that flaws plus awesome equal flawsome!
The Podcast
The Video
The Transcript
#84: Dr. Jill Interviews Betty Rocker on Living a Healthy Lifestyle
Dr. Jill 00:13
Hey, everybody! Good afternoon. Thanks for joining us on a Tuesday for another episode of Dr. Jill Live. Today I have an awesome, cool, amazing friend with some fun facts. We're going to dive into Rock Your Body—women, health, body image, and all this stuff. You're going to hear from us because we both live this. We try to model it. We grow through it. We're going to share some strategies that we've learned.
Dr. Jill 00:39
I'm super excited to have Bree, known as Betty Rocker, here today. She's got a great, huge audience. Rightfully so, because she brings so much great content, recipes, weight loss ideas, and fitness ideas to her world and her clients. I'm so excited to have her here today. The funny thing, as we were just talking and getting ready to go live, is one of these fun facts that you may not know about both of us: We are both motorcycle biker babes. Some people know that about me and I knew that about you, Bree. You said you started riding in your 30s?
Betty Rocker 01:13
I started riding a street bike in my 30s, but I'd been riding dirt bikes as a kid, and for 11 years, I was mountain biking hardcore. I always really liked things on two wheels. I thought it was really fun, challenging, and cool.
Dr. Jill 01:30
I love that about you! And I remember hearing that. I was like, “This is cool.” And that's one of the things about my audience. They know me fairly well but a lot of people are surprised that I have a BMW adventure bike. It's huge. It's like 450 pounds, so it's a very large one. It's fast.
Betty Rocker 01:48
That's really impressive. I was going to ask how big your bike was, because I think you're a little taller than me. People see me online and may not know I'm 5'1″ in real life. I'm 6'1″ in virtual reality because my personality is so big! [laughter]
Dr. Jill 02:03
[laughter] That's a really good thing, isn't it?
Betty Rocker 02:05
Yes, it's hilarious. When I was riding on the street a lot more, I had a modified 250 that I was able to ride on the track to do track days and stuff. It's much safer to ride on the racetrack than it is on the street. There are no cars on the racetrack and you've got support standing by in case anybody gets hurt. You're usually wearing a full leather suit on everything. You should be. I've had tumbles on the street that were terrible because I was wearing a jacket that rode up when I fell.
Dr. Jill 02:38
Oh my gosh, I would wear Lululemon and tennis shoes with no socks. I'm like, “Uh, okay.” Now I have full [inaudible] gear. The same thing. I'm like, “Ooh, if I fall, I am going to be totally screwed!” I want to go dirt bike riding with you. That sounds like so much fun.
Betty Rocker 02:53
That would be super fun. We can rent bikes. It's like a whole day. It's super fun. There are so many ways to enjoy being outside and to enjoy [yourself] when you have a strong, healthy, fit body that you're taking care of. It's not just about constantly doing workouts to look good. It's like: What can I do with this body? How can I test myself? How is how I'm taking care of myself translating into the things that I enjoy in my day-to-day life, even with the little things that I do at home? When I'm doing laundry and I pick up the heavy laundry or when I'm going grocery shopping and I'm carrying the bags in from the car—how am I using my body in ways that are supportive to me and also make me appreciate all this effort that I put into being strong and healthy and aging healthy and all these things?
Dr. Jill 03:43
Oh my goodness, already I'm thinking of a million things we're going to talk about. And I didn't even introduce you formally yet. I love that you brought that out because what I've been living and teaching people more and more is: How do you incorporate day-to-day movement, activity, and exercise into your routine so you don't feel like you're doing a workout? People are shocked because I have a pretty good system and frame but I don't work out. I literally stopped working out a couple of years ago. My cortisol went down. I got in the best shape of my life.
Dr. Jill 04:13
What I do, though, is: If I'm walking the dogs, I do lunges. If I'm standing and making coffee, I do calf raises. If I'm getting out of bed in the morning, I do my 10 push-ups. I have these little things I just sneak in. I tag them to another habit, like brushing my teeth so that I've gone through my day and I've got my main muscle groups taken care of. And I really haven't done a workout.
Dr. Jill 04:32
And I love what you're saying there. As you lift something up or as you go down the stairs, if you're conscious of your muscles… Before I introduce you, talk a little bit about that. I think that's so important for people because there's nothing wrong with that workout mentality, but it can sabotage [things] or it can feel like a chore. How do we get out of feeling like a chore and make our bodies part of our daily lives?
Betty Rocker 04:55
I have an answer for that. My answer for that is challenges, because I like a challenge. I like to have an activity that I'm looking forward to crossing off my list. That's fun. But I love what you just said about incorporating physical actions into your daily routines and building habits around that. So many of us end up sedentary for eight hours in the day and we don't have enough movement, and then we go and do a hard workout but the body is stiff or we just haven't moved at all.
Betty Rocker 05:27
Even if you are exercising and have a workout routine, when I go get a glass of water, I incorporate stretching in my doorway as I walk in and out of the door. Before I come to sit back down on my chair or couch, I'll do a hamstring stretch. I'll put my leg up on the side, and I'll do stretching. I incorporate more stretching and mobility-type drills into my movement patterns throughout the day as opposed to exercise moves because my goal is to stay limber and fluid so that when I do my workout, I feel ready to go. But I think we’re both saying similar things. And how can we take advantage of the time that we have?
Betty Rocker 06:06
Then, what I was talking about with how we’re walking, carrying the groceries, walking up the stairs, or picking up the laundry and putting it up on the shelf—a lot of this comes down to your body mechanics and being very mindful of core engagement and how you’re supporting your rotator cuff. You’re not rounding your back and picking things up with your back. Even just picking the laundry up, I’m activating my glutes because I’m squatting properly and engaging my core. I'm thinking about how I'm holding my shoulders back and down while I’m carrying the grocery bags or picking up the dog in a supportive way for myself.
Dr. Jill 06:41
I was just thinking of that as you're talking—shoulder blades back and good posture. And if you're listening at home, in the car, or wherever you're walking, think about your posture right now and think about a little string pulling you up. I love this—that mindfulness around our body and how we conduct ourselves.
Betty Rocker 06:58
If you're a woman, just imagine you're always wearing that crown because you're a queen and you know it, and just don't let your crown fall down.
Dr. Jill 07:05
I love it. It's like the indigenous cultures that carry baskets on their heads. Every once in a while, I'll take out the trash or a big box and put it on my head, pretending I have a gorgeous fruit basket on my head. You know that you're going to engage the whole core and have great posture when you do that.
Betty Rocker 07:22
Totally.
Dr. Jill 07:23
This is fun. Let me actually introduce you, and then we’ll dive in with some more great tips. Hopefully, you guys have whetted your appetite for Betty Rocker, who is, like I said, an amazing resource. Wherever you’re listening, you will be able to find her website and her resources. I really want to highlight all the work that she’s doing.
Dr. Jill 07:42
She is Bree, also known as Betty Rocker, an internationally known health fitness coach, innovative entrepreneur, and motivator of self-growth. One of the things that I recognized when we met was a woman like myself. And it's so neat in this area of people who have this heart to inspire, to show up, to teach, and to innovate. But I was an accidental businesswoman. You were probably more purposeful than me, but I see that in you too. You’re a really, really good businesswoman. And I think this sphere can get a little lonely as far as: How do we show up? How do we teach? How do we deal with our own stuff? We’ll talk about all that today.
Dr. Jill 08:17
Over three million people have taken her free 30-day Make Fat Cry home workout challenge, and hundreds of thousands more enjoy success in her online home workout studio, Rock Your Life. I know tons of my patients have done your programs; they love them. In fact, in the documentary, our executive producer, he's always like: “I’ve done her program, and I love it.” You are known and loved by many, and that’s amazing. She incorporates a strong holistic focus on body balancing, self-kindness, and alignment into her work—that’s where we’re going to dive into today, so stay tuned if you want to know more—thanks to her background as a hands-on structural alignment practitioner and her training in the CHEK corrective, high-performance exercise kinesiologist program. That changed my life, by the way. We’ll have to go into that CHEK program later. I didn’t even know that. I didn't even know you were a practitioner. Hailed as a “gateway to personal growth through food and fitness,” she takes an accessible all-or-something approach to living a healthy lifestyle of balance and encourages women to listen to their bodies.
Dr. Jill 09:24
Let's start there. Listening to your body—how do we do that? I think this is so important. And you and I both, when we're engaging with a client or a patient, it's like, “How do we listen and hold space for them to really start to engage in themselves?” What do you do? What do you teach? Tell us more about your philosophy on engaging in our own bodies and being more self-aware.
Betty Rocker 09:45
I had a lot of time to reflect on this question when I was the privileged guest on the Netflix documentary that's coming out. They were asking me this question: What sets you apart in your practice? And I know you guys love Dr. Jill, so I just have to say I love Dr. Jill. She actually takes care of me. I'm so happy to say that this question is something that we have in common, so it's really easy for me to answer. It's one of the reasons I'm one of your patients. And that is, I first listen to my people. I let them tell me what they’re feeling, and I listen. And I listen with my whole self.
Betty Rocker 10:21
When they’re writing me an Instagram message, I read between the lines of what you guys are telling me. I ask for more information about how you feel because your body is actually talking to you all the time. I want to know: How are you sleeping? Are you feeling like you’re getting good sleep? How are you managing your stress? What things are stressing you out in your life? And where does that show up in your body? Are you feeling achy? Do you have a stomach ache? Do you have a headache? What body talk is going on? [Through] the communication that your body is having with you, we have the opportunity to communicate back to the body by nourishing it, practicing our self-care rituals, and seeking out resources—like these wonderful doctors we have available.
Betty Rocker 11:10
When you ask me how we encourage people to listen to their bodies, we start by listening to them first and foremost—that’s what you do for me—and then drawing that out, telling them what we're hearing, then connecting that directly to say: “It sounds like your body may be saying this… ” I may be able to figure out some of this with you, but in my own life, as much as I’ve been able to figure out on my own, I've also needed to go to a resource like you—a doctor—and say: “Let's get some more data on that and see if the data matches up.”
Betty Rocker 11:44
For the things that my people can look at in their own lives, it's like: When you're doing squats and lunges, listen to your body. It means, do you feel it more on one side than the other? Do you have any pain when you're coming down in your squat or coming up? When you look at yourself in the mirror, are you bending forward, or are you standing up? There's a lot that we can look at, both in the signals the body is sending us and when we know how to listen to them. We're guiding our customers, clients, and fans on what signs to look for. But it's all about listening. And it all starts with us, when they come to us, listening to them.
Dr. Jill 12:20
I love that, Bree! So many people are running around and they've lived—I've done this too—above their neck, in their head, analytical for most of their lives. And they're not really in tune. They've learned due to trauma, due to whatever dysfunction they had before—maybe pain, maybe suffering. They've kind of disconnected from that physical body. The truth is, the physical body gives us clues and tells us exactly what we need and where we need to go. Just like you in the clinic, I'm always trying to help patients reconnect. Sometimes it starts with an elimination diet where they take out gluten, dairy, eggs, soy, corn, sugar, and alcohol. And all of a sudden, they feel amazing and are like: “Wow, this is really cool!”
Dr. Jill 13:02
I remember 20 years ago when I first started functional medicine, the only tool I had at the very beginning was an elimination diet. I'd say, “Okay, do this elimination diet and come back in 30 days and tell me how you are.” And the patient would come back and be like: “Oh my gosh, my joint pain is better. My brain fog is better. My sleep is better” and all this. And I'd be like: “Really? Wow, it really works!” I was surprised.
Betty Rocker 13:21
“I didn't do anything!”
Dr. Jill 13:22
Right? I didn't do anything. I was surprised. But what that did and what I loved in that space, was that they reconnected with how food made them feel. And in a moment, maybe we could talk about diet, food, and all these things we hear. There are so many messages out there and we lose connection with what our body needs. Some of us don't need more fat; we need more carbs. Some of us need more protein. There's never one size that fits all. How do you approach [this] as your fans and followers talk about food and diet and [you hear] “I'm not losing weight” or “I'm gaining weight” or “I'm feeling miserable” or whatever? Food is such a core part of this, and we've lost connection with our bodies and with how food makes us feel. Any tips on reconnecting with that?
Betty Rocker 14:02
Yes. Especially as women—I'm going to speak from the position of a fitness coach in this regard and as a female trainer who coaches female clients—one of the big things that I think has been missing from the conversation around nutrition and how we're eating and fueling ourselves is this question of our menstrual cycle. That's something I've been super interested in and not just when you're having a regular cycle but perimenopause post-menopause. How do the nutrients that you're eating impact your system? How do your estrogen and progesterone levels impact how your body processes food?
Betty Rocker 14:41
There are times when your body needs more carbohydrates. For example, when you're in perimenopause and post-menopause, your need for carbs is still there but you have to be even more careful of processed foods and processed carbohydrates and sugars. We have less of that threshold to manage that stuff at that point in our lives. We need a greater stimulus from proteins and amino acids because we don't absorb them as readily when we get into that stage of life. We need a bigger stimulus to get the response to build muscle, shift body composition, and lose body fat.
Betty Rocker 15:14
I feel like, at every stage of life, a lot of women are not aware of what amino acids are doing for their bodies or what they're doing in their system. It's not just about building muscles. It's about cognition, brain function, hormone health, enzyme health, and your immune system. All these things are so important. We get amino acids from protein. We need complete protein sources to get all of the essential amino acids, which are the ones that your body can't make on its own. I see that there's a big gap between things like protein and carbs, eating enough around your workouts, and thinking about fueling for the actual activities that you're doing throughout the day.
Betty Rocker 15:58
There's a lot of focus on portion control, mitigating sugar cravings, and trying to count calories. These are all strategies that can be useful but when that's all you've got and you don't have a foundation of actual nutrition and food, I think that we lose out as women, especially. I feel like there's a lot of noise right now out there, especially around specific dietary strategies. I don't want to demonize anything because I think part of the journey is experimenting and seeing what works for yourself so that you can listen to your body and hear how it likes these things. There are certain dietary strategies that you may find initially give you success for the first month or two, perhaps because you're paying more attention to what you're eating for the first time. However, if you have a prolonged period where you're not getting enough fuel for yourself, your cortisol levels are going to rise and you're going to start gaining more body fat than losing it.
Betty Rocker 17:03
Some people mistake stress for mental clarity. They feel anxious all the time but they think they're on alert and that's a good thing, but it's actually heightened stress. I'm sure, as a doctor, you have a lot of expertise in this area. Those are some things that have been interesting to me recently. A lot of women are trying to not eat carbohydrates from healthy, complex food carbohydrate sources, not focusing on enough protein, and not realizing that once we get to 40 and beyond, we need to increase our protein intake so that we can absorb amino acids as readily as we did when we were younger. There's a lot to it. That framework as a woman has been really helpful to me and that's something I've been talking about a lot lately.
Dr. Jill 17:45
I love that. And just a couple of comments, because this is so relevant. I know people are hungry for more specifics. Like you, I have probably 20 or 30 dietary types of protocols that I use in practice. There's no one-size-fits-all. I feel like it's super important not to say: “This is the best and it's always the best.” There are doctors whose whole platform is on one diet. I don't think that works, I'm going to be honest. But here's what I do think is true: We do need plants. And I'm not saying vegetarian. I think animal protein is a perfectly healthy part of this. But we have this [idea of] all or nothing. And I hear this all the time: The carnivore and the keto or the vegetarian or the vegan. I'm like: “Wait a second here. There are parts of all of these that are true, and you can take some of this and use it in your own life.”
Dr. Jill 18:28
What I've come to find with people with gut issues or autoimmunity is that there are a lot of food sensitivities and what happens is that grains in general have more mycotoxins and molds. I do not believe everybody needs to be on a grain-free diet. Those who are super sensitive can eliminate some of those things that trigger autoimmunity by being more grain-free. Often, what we'll do is at least gluten-free, and then [recommend] quinoa, rice, buckwheat, and amaranth. All these wonderful gluten-free grains are appropriate.
Dr. Jill 18:55
Like you said, I think a lot of women need more carbohydrates because when the adrenals aren't working well, your glycogen stores fall and you cannot maintain them. A perfect example: I did a climb a week ago for the documentary. It was really stressful for me. I'm not a climber. I have hardly any experience, so I put myself out there in a dangerous situation. And I did it. It was about two hours. I climbed, got down, and started walking home. Because I had to leave before the group, I was alone. I started shaking and trembling, and I was like: “Oh, my blood sugar is really freaking low.” I didn't test it, of course. I was walking down the mountain. But I literally couldn't stop shaking.
Dr. Jill 19:32
As soon as I got to the car, I don't normally do this but I had a healthy candy bar. I'm like, ‘Sugar!' Within 20 minutes, I was fine. That was a time when I did not think well enough to help my glycogen stores and make sure that I had fuel. I let it go way too long. And I'm sure because of that, my cortisol rose and it was a whole mess. Two hours later, I was fine, but that's a very clear example of where I messed up and didn't think about what my body needed. I probably had a blood sugar of 40 if I had measured it. It was terrible. I felt awful.
Betty Rocker 20:04
That's such a good point, too, about the preparedness. Also, as a doctor who is seeing the data and blood work of your clients… I feel like there are some important reasons why we might have a specific dietary protocol that would help us with a specific need. But in general, I feel like we should be eating more whole foods in general from plants and from all these sources of protein and healthy fats—whatever your choice is of where to get it from.
Betty Rocker 20:39
To your point about preparedness, this is a piece that I've been working on in myself and have talked about for many years, which is to choose a system of success for yourself. You can have a couple of systems that work for you. I teach batch, hybrid, or minimal preparation for yourself. If you're going to do a batch session, you pick four or five staple recipes for the week. Some might be breakfasts. Some might be dinners. You just do some prep in a day and have your foods ready to go for you to just grab and go for the week so that when you have a special event and you're going to go hiking, you put some food in a container. You put it in your car and you go, and then you just have it to eat afterward. It's huge.
Betty Rocker 21:22
Also hybrid, which I love. I've got maybe two or three staple things. I cook chicken breasts. I baked a sheet tray of veggies and proteins. And then I'm going to cook on the fly throughout the week too. I've got a lunch that I can take or something. And then the minimal is for those who are maybe traveling or really busy and don't have time. I have this system where I say: “We're going to make sure we have smoothie ingredients. We're going to make sure we have some good, healthy meal options ready for us” or the groceries for some of them. It's [about] being strategic and thinking about preparing yourself because there's an inevitable thing that's going to happen every single day: You're going to get hungry multiple times and you want to have a plan for that.
Dr. Jill 22:05
I am so glad you're bringing this up because this is the core. Even though I did that, that happened. In my bag, [which was] in my car, I had nut bars. I had these candy bars that are perfect for increasing blood sugar. They were perfectly appropriate in that situation, even though it typically wouldn't be a go-to. I love that.
Dr. Jill 22:24
People ask you and me all the time. We have busy lives. I eat the same as you. Usually on a Saturday or Sunday, I'll cook up a bunch of chicken and a bunch of roasted vegetables. They're in my fridge in glass containers. Or if I go to the farmer's market in the summer, I'll prep all the veggies. What you don't want to do is go to the fridge when you're starving or hungry and there's big lettuce that needs washing, celery that needs cutting, and all this stuff that needs prepping. And you're so hungry that you go instead and grab some gluten-free crackers, which are not that great.
Betty Rocker 22:52
Or you order for delivery or takeout because you're like, “I can't deal with this right now.” We all know we're going to get busy during the week. On the weekend—I get it—I don't always want to cook or prep. But I know if I just do a little bit now… Oftentimes, I'm very boring. I'll have the same sort of stuff for multiple weeks in a row. And then, I'm like: “I'm a little bored of this. I'm going to change the sauce” or “I'm going to change the protein.” With the amount of time that we all spend on social media, you've got some time to look at some recipes and write down a couple ideas, right?
Dr. Jill 23:32
I love this because, honestly, this is one of those secrets that you and I are both doing and that we're teaching to our patients and clients. And it is a game-changer for me. I get home from work sometimes at seven or eight o'clock at night—I'm starving—and I can always have a meal that's ready to reheat if I need to because I've thought about it ahead of time. If I didn't, I would not be eating as healthy as I do because I would just go to whatever is convenient.
Betty Rocker 23:57
Sure. Like with everything I was saying before, especially when it comes to protein, you have to think ahead about that stuff.
Dr. Jill 24:04
Yes, chicken out of the freezer is not going to [inaudible].
Betty Rocker 24:08
Yes. So you end up with these quick-fix foods. Or you order some takeout and it's loaded with sodium or it's got a lot of sugar in the sauce and you're like: “I'm full now, but I also just spiked my blood sugar so high from all of that.” You don't sleep as well as a result. It has a snowball effect that ends up not serving us long-term.
Dr. Jill 24:32
And speaking of which, there's this hidden secret I learned years ago. I'm sure you teach your clients the same thing: Sauces, dressings, and marinades are usually the hidden culprits for gluten, dairy, sugar, or other things. For me, soy is an issue. With the mold issues, I don't like to do a lot of fermented stuff. But when you're cooking at home, you can really control [things]. Things like oils and sauces are [inaudible] sabotage. And when you're eating out, usually the oils they use are not healthy. They're canola, soy, or something or fake olive oils. They're not even clean. And even the sources of your meats and vegetables do matter.
Dr. Jill 25:08
If you're 80% takeout—no matter where you go—you're not going to be that healthy, because you're getting these sneaky ingredients that are in there. Whereas at home, you can make some delicious meals and control the oils, sauces, and those types of things. It does make a difference. If you are on the go and eating out, I just talk to the chef. I tell him how to make my meal. I see the salmon and they have all the stuff in it that I couldn't eat. I'm like, “Can you just sauté that with garlic and olive oil and add some roasted vegetables?”
Dr. Jill 25:39
Don't be afraid to speak up. A lot of women and men, I'm sure, have these dietary restrictions and they feel ashamed—whether it's [because they're] with a group and they don't want to draw attention to themselves or they don't want to cause problems with the wait staff. I just make a scene. I'm like, “I want it like this” and “I want it like this.” [laughter] I tell them how to do it. Any tips for dietary restrictions and eating out?—because that's kind of common. And people, I think, have some trouble asking for what they need sometimes.
Betty Rocker 26:05
As someone who was a server for almost 15 years and a former waitress, in that sense, I did better when someone asked nicely and tipped well when I did something for them. I would be careful not to make too many demands of your server. I was always eager to please my customers. And when people asked nicely, I was like, “How can I help you?”
Betty Rocker 26:33
But one thing I've always done—I call it menu surfing, which is really fun. I just look at the menu and look for ingredients. What ingredients are in the dishes? And I don't try to make up a whole different dish, generally. Usually, I'll change the side, just leave off the sauce, or ask for grilled chicken if I want something like that or [have] the sauce on the side. It's usually pretty simple when you're getting veggies, a protein, and a carb side [dish].
Dr. Jill 27:03
I love that. Always respect your… I'm saying it like I'm demanding, but it's just like— [laughter]
Betty Rocker 27:09
I know what you meant. I just wanted to point that out for anyone who maybe got the wrong impression. [laughter]
Dr. Jill 27:14
Absolutely. One hundred percent. So let's talk about how you look at and bring into your training the four pillars of health. Let's talk a little about that and sleep.
Betty Rocker 27:25
It's funny because, [after] getting to be your client or working with any great functional medicine doctor in the past, I feel like it's a two-way street. I don't come to the doctor and expect them to fix me. I'm going to take responsibility for what I can do myself. And these four pillars of health that I came up with are the things I feel are within each of our domains as individuals. Basically, it's sleep, nutrition, stress management, and exercise. And I get that there's a whole realm within each of those that each of us has to discover and experience for ourselves [and consider]: “What do I do there? What's right for me?” That's part of the “listening to your body” piece—finding out what works for you and also being accepting of the fact that it may change throughout your lifetime. We talked about different dietary strategies when it comes to nutrition. If you're not feeling good in your stomach after you eat and you're breaking out in your skin a lot, it might be time to look at a different dietary approach. If you're struggling with body composition, these are all things that I coach my readers on a lot.
Betty Rocker 28:24
It's like, “Hey, let's start with sleep,” because sleep is at the top of my four pillars. It's like, “Are you making the effort to get to bed on time?” And there's going to be seasons of life where sleep cannot be the focus or it simply is not possible to get good sleep. But there are other times in life when we just push it aside as a priority when it could be more of a priority. That's a big one for me. And obviously, we talked about nutrition.
Betty Rocker 28:49
Stress management, as we all know, is super important. It's one of those things that's hidden in plain sight. We have to get out ahead of it. We can't just expect our stress to manage itself. We talked a little bit about trauma a little while ago; you mentioned it. I feel like trauma is one of those underlying pieces of stress that many of us haven't addressed. For me personally, when I realized that I was living in this anxiety-depression soup, I was just functioning, functioning, functioning, doing, doing, doing. My addiction at the time was work. I had alleviated some of my other addictions. I feel like what trauma brings out in a lot of us is addictive behaviors, whether it's alcohol, drugs, sexual addiction, or shopping addiction. All these different addictions come from pain because we're trying to suppress it. And I learned a lot about that from reading Gabor Maté's work, which I'm such a huge fan of.
Betty Rocker 29:44
I experienced that personally, becoming such a busy, busy, busy person. And I created a successful, thriving business in the midst of all of that pain. Yet, I don't think I was going to be able to sustain that pace. I went to Dr. Amen's clinic and got my brain scanned after reading his fabulous book, Change Your Brain, Change Your Life, because I realized I had to take responsibility for this. I was living in stress soup. His amazing team referred me to EMDR practice. I started down that journey and spent a couple of years working with an incredible practitioner who I still see to this day on occasion, just for regular care. But that changed the game for me personally—addressing the root cause of some of my deep-rooted stress. I was much more receptive.
Betty Rocker 30:37
At this point in life, there are other things I do daily to manage daily stresses: Pet my dog, play with my dog, meditate, and write gratitudes. I've done so much work around my mental approach to life in general that I feel that when something is difficult, I often look at it immediately as an opportunity. Instead of: “This is happening to me! Why?!” I don't feel like a victim anymore. I feel like the conscious creator of my life, so when things get thrown at me that are challenging, I have the tools and the skill sets to not be reactive anymore. I can be more proactive with them. That makes it easier to run a big team and to handle all the challenges and all of the responsibilities that I've chosen to take on in my life. And life is about choices, basically.
Betty Rocker 31:37
These four pillars of health, coming back to them, are all choices that we make about how much energy and time we're going to give the responsibilities that we have for being adult humans on this planet, taking care of ourselves and taking care of the people around us and modeling good behavior to the kids and people who need us.
Betty Rocker 31:44
The final pillar is the exercise pillar. Dr. Jill has one way she handles that pillar all day long with her fun little practices. I have another way. I just like to have a program to follow and that works for me. Different things work for different people at different times. And that's why I always say it's all or something, not all or nothing. So that's my four pillars for you, in a nutshell.
Dr. Jill 32:07
I love it. It's so practical and so important. They're basics that people forget, like sleep and stress. And I love that you shared your journey and healing in some of this stuff because it's the same thing here. I've been doing functional medicine for about 20 years. In the last five years, I've really worked on my own mental and emotional health and my traumas. Just like you, I have done hours of therapy and work. What it has brought to the surface is a lot more healing in my physical body, too. It's been a big aha for me. I know the supplements, functional medicine, and diet; I could do it in my sleep. But a lot of the profound healing in myself first and also in my patients comes from encouraging them to go inside, get with a practitioner, and do the work.
Dr. Jill 32:49
And it's funny because, like you, I think I heard Joe Polish talking about addictions several years ago. I remember sitting there like: “Yeah, whatever. I'm not an addict. I don't have any issues.” And then he was like, “And all of you in this room are addicts!” He was talking about work. And it was the first time I was like, “Oh, wait a second… “
Betty Rocker 33:05
Were you in the Genius Network?
Dr. Jill 33:07
Yes.
Betty Rocker 33:08
That's so great. That's so cool.
Dr. Jill 33:10
I remember sitting there and being like: “Oh crap! I'm one of them too.” Of course, right? But I was in this denial thing. Then I realized so profoundly that work might be the biggest addiction. And because it's socially acceptable, we get accolades, and we have clients, or whatever. It reinforces itself. I don't know if you experienced this, but for me, movement and busyness were ways to avoid pain and emotion. So, I would always be doing something. I could hardly sit still if I wanted to. Now I can because I've done the work. But I realized I had to do the work around trauma and emotions. Before, when I would try to sit still or be still, I would get anxious because I had all these emotions I was trying to keep down. And that busyness, going, and being and all that were covering up some work that I needed to do. Now I can sit for an hour with no problem at all. But it took some dealing with those emotional triggers underneath.
Dr. Jill 34:06
I just love that we're being real, because I think there are a lot of women out there who are just like you and me. They're successful. You're probably listening out here and doing this life where you're balancing your family, your children, your pets, and your work and are: Go, go, go, go, go! And number one, if you're not really taking care of yourself, what good is that? And number two, that stress response—that cortisol—is going to take a toll on your body. If it isn't now, it will someday.
Dr. Jill 34:32
Let's talk a little bit about weight. First of all, I don't want to focus on weight as the pure end goal, just for some number on the scale, because you and I both don't think like that. And I think we both realized through our mold journeys how we can do all the right stuff and that our bodies don't always respond. I experienced that firsthand. But how do you talk to clients when they're stuck? They're maybe doing all the right things. How do we love our bodies where we're at while also making progress towards where we'd like to be for strength? And maybe even shifting our mindset around: What is beauty? What do we want from our bodies? And how do we love them? Because this is so core, at least to my journey.
Betty Rocker 35:12
There's a lot to unpack there. First, I want to thank you for acknowledging that it's not about weight loss; it's really about fat loss. If you are looking at a body composition shift, you want to lose body fat. But more importantly, and this is the piece that I think is missing from the conversation for women specifically, let's talk about growing muscle because muscle is more compact and dense. It also supports your joints. It supports you. It gives you more power, capability, and strength as you go through this life. You have autonomy in your life. The older you get, the more capable you are in your physical body. The stronger you are.
Betty Rocker 35:49
I like to focus on: How can we support growing our muscles? Fat loss comes along with that naturally when we shift our frame of what's important to us. We think about, “How can I fuel my muscle? How can I fuel for my workouts?” instead of “How little do I have to eat to burn the calories to lose the fat?” Your body doesn't do this equation of like: “Okay, today I ate 400 calories, so I have to get on the treadmill and burn 400 calories. And actually, I should probably burn at least 500 because I need to be in a deficit.” It doesn't work that way.
Betty Rocker 36:24
The way it works: Nutrient partitioning is a big part of that, and it has a lot to do with your insulin sensitivity. I'm sure that you educate a ton about this. I think that when it comes to how we see ourselves, we have to take a good, hard look at the amount of stress that we ourselves are responsible for when it comes to the stress we have about our bodies. We don't want to trigger the cortisol response every time we go to the gym just because we're stressed out about how we look in our workout clothes or how we fit into this thing. So much of what we've been sold since we were little girls came from this plastic Barbie, whose body was plastic—no cellulite, blonde. It's this image of a woman—
Dr. Jill 37:14
Probably like 5% body fat. [inaudible].
Betty Rocker 37:14
Right. We grew up idolizing this body type. And it's not just Barbie. I don't want to demonize just Barbie. It has everything to do with culture around the perception of what little girls aspire to be. I think there's a lot of effort in helping that change. But you, as the adult woman, first and foremost, must heal that little girl inside of you and start to see your body as this incredibly capable machine that can do so much. It is taking care of you every single day, enabling you with this gift of being able to walk, see, talk, think, hear, smell, taste—all the things that you do every single day. I think getting out in front of that with some gratitude can help to put a little bit less of that stress in your brain all the time. That's been hugely helpful for me, especially in going through my mold journey.
Betty Rocker 38:10
As some of you know, if you've listened to my show with Jill, I've interviewed her about this because I got exposed to mold a couple of years back and struggled to figure out A) what was wrong and B) what was happening. As a trainer, I have a regular regimen of eating and training. It's pretty simple for me to maintain my physique. However, I started gaining body fat and losing muscle. I thought at first it must be my hormones. That's a natural thought when you're in your 40s. I'm 44 right now. I finally started to learn what was going on. At first, I really fought it because I was frustrated by the fact that here I was showing up as a trainer and my body wasn't looking the way that I'd been able to create it to be. But I had to really question that in myself, because I'm still strong. My body is amazing. Once I became like an ally and supported my body in what it was doing to help me deal with the mold, even as I started to get better, I realized that I had a better, truer message to share with my own women who were looking to me for guidance.
Betty Rocker 39:21
I was like: My body, like any woman's, goes through stuff. We're going to struggle, and we're going to get sick. I might gain some body fat but let me look at what the opportunity is within that for me to learn something about A) how I've been perceiving myself in the first place and B) what this body fat is here to help me with. That was great for me. I also recognize that without the resilience that I had already built and all the healthy practices I had built into my life with my four pillars for example, I wouldn't have been as healthy going through the journey of detoxing from the extra load on my system.
Betty Rocker 40:01
I think that there was a lot there for me to unpack. Even though I felt like I'd gotten to a really healthy place mentally about my body, I was used to my body shifting throughout the year. I gained weight, lost weight, gained body fat, and lost body fat in seasonal shifts throughout the year, which felt good to me. I wasn't mad at myself when I had more body fat. But this was scary because I gained body fat and I had no control over what was happening internally. That's what was scary for me. I felt like there was something really wrong with me. This was a symptom; my body was talking to me.
Betty Rocker 40:40
I had to get on board with what that process was, learn as much as I could and support myself in that process. I think that it's really easy to beat ourselves up when we don't meet the expectations of how we think we're supposed to look, what we think we're supposed to be doing in our lives, or how much money we think we're supposed to be making. There are a lot of ways we can stress ourselves out, not just around body image but around our own image, perception, and expectation of who we think we're supposed to be and how we think we're supposed to look. Again, these are things that are hidden in plain sight from us. We have to become aware that that's what's stressing us out and try to shift the framework around it to see the opportunity within what we have, what we are willing to do about it, and also what the gifts are within that situation.
Dr. Jill 41:33
Thank you for sharing that. And again, my listeners know my journey with mold. It's the same thing. The weight gain and things are so confusing. I shared a little when I was interviewed on your show, but part of my journey was that I had cancer and Crohn's. And this was all fighting. This was 20 years ago now. I was so angry because I felt like my body had betrayed me. I had this anger. I didn't even know it. I wasn't aware of it. But for all those years, I was so angry because I was like, “My mind is strong and I'm doing all the right stuff.” I was voted in my high school yearbook as the most healthy senior or whatever. From very young, I had this health-conscious mindset. So I was like, “Why me of all people?” But that didn't help.
Dr. Jill 42:14
The shift happened with the mold, when, like you said, mold in particular makes us feel out of control because it sabotages everything we know to be true about our bodies. It's like: “What is this body? What's happening.” I would have these 3+ pitting edemas, like elephant ankles. I couldn't wear dresses for two years. I was so ashamed. I still started on that journey being like, “Why is my body betraying me?” But guess what? That mindset didn't help me heal. It actually made it worse. When I started understanding that, I started first with tears rolling down my face, like: “Oh my gosh, thank you.” I was talking to myself like: “Thank you for taking me through this. I shouldn't be alive. I shouldn't have gotten through these things. You have been strong and capable on this journey with me and every time you bounce back.”
Dr. Jill 42:57
I started loving myself. Instead of having shame and fear and all these things, I started using love to heal and partner with my body instead of being like: “Ugh! Come on! Get with it!”—because I had that. Everything else is a fight to overcome and everything. But I had to shift that mentality and start loving my body. And guess what? Now I'm really happy. I'm fit. I'm mostly detoxed from mold. But I had to start loving it when I hated the shape I was in. I had to start this love when I had the fat ankles and the horrible skin. If I show you pictures, I look like a leper with the acne, the breakouts, and all of that. I had to start the love when I didn't feel very lovable.
Dr. Jill 43:38
And you said something so important that I think it's maybe your last point and then I'll let you kind of end. We as women are so often loved for our performance, for our showing up, or for these things that aren't true authentic unconditional love. We get this idea that we're only lovable if we're showing up, if we're performing, or if we're in tip-top shape. For me, and it sounds like for you too, with these core issues, if we feel like we're only worthy of love in a certain physical shape or how we show up in the world, it's no wonder we have massive stress and internal conflict because we can't show up like that all the time. And most of the time, we just show up humanly. And guess what? I've always said that our imperfections are what make us the most lovable. I'd say that but did I believe it? I don't think so. But now I do believe that the things that make us quirky and a little weird are the things that make us the most fun and lovable.
Betty Rocker 44:32
Yes. You just set it up for me to talk about flawsome. I know that's what you were doing.
Dr. Jill 44:37
Awesome! Perfect. Please.
Betty Rocker 44:41
I just want to say that that's so beautifully put, talking about why those core issues can stress us out and the worthiness pieces—they're all part of it—and being able to gracefully self-examine and think about that. But one of the things that helped me a lot was just knowing I'm awesome, I accept that I have flaws, and that I'm still awesome. I love that word flawsome because, to me, that just sums it up. Embrace your flaws. Know you're a work in progress and you don't have to be perfect all the time. I believe we are perfect as we are. And yet, that's not a daily use word that we feel about ourselves. If we can just say, “Yes, I have my flaws, and I'm also awesome”—embrace your flawsome and rock your life! That's it!
Dr. Jill 45:36
I love it. Where can people find you? Tell us about the programs that people have found so helpful, because people are dying to join, I'm sure.
Betty Rocker 45:44
They're all stored up here in this gigantic bun that I'm wearing. [laughter] Yes, I'm a who from Whoville today. You can find me on Instagram, @TheBettyRocker, and at TheBettyRocker.com. You can find me on Facebook at facebook.com/thebettyrocker. And of course, I've got a website packed with great resources and information, just like Jill does.
Betty Rocker 46:07
I really enjoy putting out content with tons of free workout videos that you can do from home. They're really accessible. There are delicious, healthy, easy recipes. I'm all about quick, easy recipes that are also made with whole foods. There's lots of really great content. There are some really important articles on my website about how to train with your cycle if you're interested in that. There are a lot of really good pieces of content. But I've got eating guides and meal plans to help you use those three styles we talked about: The batch, minimal, and hybrid. I've got workout programs that you can do from home or with just a little equipment at home.
Betty Rocker 46:02
And of course, there is Rock Your Life, which is the heart of everything I do. There is my online women's fitness community. We have tons of challenges that you can do. We have new classes all week long—over 1,000 in the class library. So you can stop, drop, and Betty Rock wherever you are.
Dr. Jill 46:58
I love it! Oh my gosh. I love it. Thank you. As I knew, it felt like it went by in three minutes, and here we are at the end of the hour. Thank you so much for your time. I know you're busy and I'm honored to have you. I'm honored to collaborate with you. I'm so grateful for what you're doing in the world for the image consciousness you're bringing to women around the flawsome philosophy versus just having this other idea of perfection. So thanks for all you're doing. And thank you again for your time today!
Betty Rocker 47:27
I'm never too busy for you. And thank you so much for having me! Thank you all for being a part of the conversation!
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