In this episode, we delve into the complexities of the human microbiome and its crucial role in health and disease. Our guest, Dr. Raphael Kellman, shares insights from his extensive experience in functional medicine, emphasizing the importance of understanding the body's inner workings and the power of the microbiome.
This deep and inspiring conversation goes far beyond traditional functional medicine. Dr. Kellman shares his unique perspective on the interconnectedness of nature, the body, and the microbiome, revealing how understanding these inner ecosystems can transform the way we treat chronic illness.
🔑 Key Topics You'll Discover with Dr. Raphael Kellman
① The Philosophy of Science and Medicine:
⇨ Dr. Kelman discusses the interconnectedness of nature and the human body, highlighting how understanding ecosystems can inform medical practices.
⇨ The conversation touches on the philosophical aspects of health, emphasizing the need for a holistic approach.
② Beyond Functional Medicine:
⇨ The episode explores the limitations of traditional medicine and the potential of functional medicine to address underlying health issues.
⇨ Dr. Kelman explains how understanding the forces beneath the surface can lead to more effective treatments.
③ The Role of the Microbiome:
⇨ A significant portion of the discussion is dedicated to the microbiome's impact on health, including its role in conditions like IBS and autoimmune disorders.
⇨ Practical advice is given on how to assess and improve the microbiome, including the use of blood tests over stool tests for more accurate results.
④ Intuition and Science:
⇨ The importance of combining scientific knowledge with intuitive understanding is emphasized, suggesting that gut feelings can sometimes be more accurate than textbook knowledge.
⇨ Dr. Kelman shares personal anecdotes and experiences that illustrate the power of intuition in medical practice.
⑤ Endogenous Healing:
⇨ The concept of endogenous healing is introduced, where the body is encouraged to heal itself using its natural capabilities.
⇨ The discussion includes strategies for activating the microbiome to support this process.
🔑 Key Takeaways with Dr. Raphael Kellman
⇨ Understanding the microbiome is crucial for addressing many modern health issues.
⇨ A holistic approach that combines science and intuition can lead to more effective health outcomes.
⇨ Functional medicine offers a promising alternative to traditional medical practices by focusing on the root causes of disease.
🔑 CONCLUSION: This episode provides a comprehensive look at how the microbiome and functional medicine can transform health care. Dr. Kelman's insights offer valuable guidance for both practitioners and patients seeking to improve their health through a deeper understanding of the body's natural systems.
About Dr. Raphael Kellman
Dr. Raphael Kellman, founder of Microbiome Medicine, identifies how bacteria can help regulate thyroid and overall endocrine function. Dr. Kellman explains the complex, integral relationship between the microbiome and thyroid disease and hormone balance. By following his very simple steps, you can significantly heal your microbiome, and finally be free of the disabling effects of a dysfunctional thyroid and overall endocrine system. Through Dr. Kellman's proven Microbiome Protocol you can begin to heal at the deepest level, and regain your health, well-being and zest for life.
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD – Leading Functional Medicine Doctor
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD, ABIHM, ABoIM, IFMCP is internationally recognized as one of the most respected leaders in functional and integrative medicine. She is dually board-certified in Family Medicine and Integrative Holistic Medicine, and the founder and medical director of Flatiron Functional Medicine in Louisville, Colorado.
Widely known as a pioneer in environmental toxicity, mold-related illness, autoimmune disease, and resilience medicine, Dr. Carnahan combines cutting-edge science with compassionate, root-cause care. Her clinical approach integrates precision genomics, epigenetics, microbiome research, peptide therapy, and lifestyle interventions to transform health outcomes for patients worldwide.
She is the author of the best-selling memoir Unexpected, which weaves her personal journey through cancer, Crohn’s disease, and mold-related illness with her professional expertise. Dr. Carnahan is also the executive producer of the award-winning documentary Doctor/Patient and the host of the popular podcast Resiliency Radio, which reaches over 500,000 global subscribers.
As an international keynote speaker, Dr. Carnahan has been featured at leading medical conferences including A4M, IFM, EPIC, and IPM Congress, and her work is frequently highlighted in major media outlets such as NBC, CBS, Fox News, Forbes, Parade, People, and MindBodyGreen.
With a reputation as both a scientist and a healer, Dr. Jill Carnahan is regarded as one of the top functional medicine doctors in the world, offering a unique blend of evidence-based research, innovation, and deeply personalized care.
The Podcast with Dr. Raphael Kellman
The Video with Dr. Raphael Kellman
📘Interview Notes
- Microbiome's Role: The microbiome influences chronic diseases, immune function, and brain health, outnumbering human cells 7 to 1.
- Individualized Treatments: Precision microbiome care requires tailored probiotic and prebiotic strategies for unique health conditions.
- Microbiome Renewal Protocol: The MRP balances hormones and metabolism naturally, helping patients stabilize weight without dieting.
- TRH Stimulation Test: This test improves thyroid diagnoses, detecting hidden dysfunction missed by standard blood tests.
- Holistic Medicine Approach: Dr. Kelman promotes whole-systems thinking, integrating science and intuition for true health transformation.
- Blood Testing Insights: Immune markers in blood provide better insights into microbiome health than stool tests alone.
Microbiome as the Foundation for Health
The microbiome acts as a central intelligence that governs many chronic diseases and overall health.
- Dr. Raphael Kelman emphasized that the microbiome is a “supercomputer” with trillions of bacterial cells outnumbering human cells 7 to 1 and genetic material exceeding human DNA 150 to 1 (13:15).
- It sends complex signals beyond nutrients, influencing gene expression and inflammation levels.
- This system governs immune function, teaching the immune system to avoid self-attack, which is key in autoimmune diseases.
- The microbiome’s health directly affects brain function via the gut-brain axis, transmitting emotional and physical health signals.
- The recent explosion of microbiome research validates its foundational role, despite this being a new concept in mainstream medicine.
- Precision microbiome care requires nuanced, individualized approaches rather than generic probiotics (17:46).
- Different conditions like cancer, Hashimoto’s thyroiditis, or rheumatoid arthritis need distinct probiotic and prebiotic formulas.
- Dr. Kelman uses an intuitive, experience-based method since 2005, combining science with gut “knowing” to tailor treatments.
- Standard treatments like repeated antibiotics or herbs for SIBO often fail due to lack of microbiome restoration, leading to high recurrence.
- His approach ends chronic symptoms like bloating and irregular bowel habits by rebalancing the microbiome as the foundation for healing.
Microbiome Renewal Protocol and Metabolic Health
Targeted microbiome activation can restore hormone balance and metabolic function naturally.
- The Microbiome Renewal Protocol (MRP) developed by Dr. Kelman activates beneficial microbiome compounds that regulate hormones such as GLP-1 and GLP-2, which control appetite and metabolism (33:44).
- Patients report normalized appetite and weight stabilization without intentional dieting.
- This mimics the effects of weight-loss drugs but leverages natural microbiome processes instead.
- The protocol engages a wide range of microbiome-derived hormones, not just one, enhancing overall metabolic health.
- This approach positions microbiome optimization as a sustainable alternative to pharmaceutical interventions.
Revolutionizing Thyroid Testing with the TRH Stimulation Test
A forgotten thyroid test reveals dysfunction missed by standard blood tests, improving diagnosis and treatment.
- Dr. Kelman highlighted the TRH stimulation test as a superior diagnostic tool for thyroid dysfunction, especially in patients with symptoms but normal standard labs (34:54).
- The test measures TSH release directly from the pituitary gland after TRH injection, bypassing fluctuating blood hormone levels.
- It detects hidden hypothyroidism by assessing TSH accumulation in the pituitary that standard TSH blood tests miss.
- This test takes about 25 minutes and is not widely used due to time and reimbursement issues.
- Dr. Kelman and a small group maintain its use, finding it critical for accurate thyroid diagnosis and guiding appropriate treatment.
- This deeper testing addresses a diagnostic gap in thyroid care that leaves many patients untreated or misdiagnosed (36:22).
- It aligns with Dr. Kelman’s philosophy to trust patient symptoms over lab norms.
- The TRH test can prevent unnecessary delays and improve patient outcomes by confirming true thyroid status.
- Dr. Kelman shares resources and ebooks on the test via his website kalmanmd.com for clinicians and patients.
Integrative Philosophy and Future Vision for Medicine
A holistic, systems-based view combining science and intuition is essential to unlock true healing.
- Dr. Kelman advocates moving beyond reductionist models to whole-systems thinking that includes mind, body, microbiome, and innate intelligence (04:05).
- He frames health as ecosystem harmony where all parts interact, not isolated organs or symptoms.
- This philosophy rejects outdated evolutionary and medical dogmas, promoting survival of the whole rather than the fittest.
- He calls this approach “foundational medicine” or second-generation functional medicine that integrates mind and microbiome.
- He emphasizes the power of intuition alongside scientific knowledge for personalized care (24:52).
- Intuition guides nuanced probiotic and treatment choices that data alone cannot predict.
- This mindset shift can transform patient identity from illness labels to empowered healing journeys.
- His upcoming book on human will and transformation reflects this broader vision linking consciousness and health (40:32).
- Dr. Kelman’s approach underlines endogenous healing where activating the microbiome and body’s innate systems creates lasting wellness (27:59).
- Other treatments like peptides or detox are adjuncts, but the microbiome is the core springboard.
- This philosophy counters purely symptom-based or pharmaceutical-centric care, aiming for root cause resolution.
Practical Diagnostic and Treatment Insights
Blood markers provide a clearer window into microbiome health than stool testing alone.
- Dr. Kelman explained that blood tests measuring immune molecules such as interleukin 6, TNF alpha, and interleukin 10 reveal the microbiome’s systemic impact (31:04).
- These markers guide tailored probiotic and postbiotic choices better than stool profiles.
- Postbiotics—compounds produced by the microbiome—can be selectively increased to target specific immune imbalances.
- This precision enables managing complex issues like autoimmune overlap and depression with microbiome modulation.
- He cautions that no single microbiome profile fits all; health depends on individual response rather than fixed bacterial compositions.
- Functional stool testing supplements but does not replace blood-based immune marker analysis.
- This diagnostic strategy supports personalized treatment plans with measurable biological targets.
- The approach embraces complexity while delivering actionable insights for clinicians and patients.
Transcript
00:02
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Hey everybody. Welcome to Resiliency Radio, your go to podcast for the most cutting edge insights integrative and functional medicine. I'm your host, Dr. Jill, and with each episode we dive into the heart of healing and personal transformation. Join me as I interview medical experts, authors, innovators and world leaders of all types. I learn right along with you each week as and I'm trying to bring to you the most powerful information to help you on your way to optimal performance and longevity. One of my favorite topics today's no different. You're going to hear an interview with Dr. Kelman, who's the author of multiple books on the gut microbiome. We're going to weave in the forgotten thyroid test that you may have never heard about and that many medical doctors are no longer using.
00:47
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
But that may just be the thing that shows you that you actually have a dysfunctional thyroid which or thyroid hormone levels and that you may not have determined otherwise. So stay tuned for that really important information from today's episode. Before we jump in, I just want to remind you if you haven't yet grabbed a copy of my book Unexpected, you can find that anywhere books are sold. If you want a signed copy by me, go to Dr. Jill health.com my retail store. You can also find all kinds of products and services, especially probiotics and prebiotics and symbiotics for the gut microbiome@doctor Jill health.com one of our top sellers that you'll want to be sure and check out if you're not sure where to start is our Spore Probiotic with ig. It's a phenomenal spore based probiotic with immunoglobulins.
01:35
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
It's kind of like the best of all worlds wrapped into one. And it's my go to for tough cases of IBS and SIBO. It's called Spore Probiotic with IG@doctor Jill health.com and if you don't know our clinic is accepting new patients and I work with my pa, Fawn and my nurse practitioner Hannah on each and every case. So if you're looking for a great functional medicine clinic to help you on your way, just give us a call. Our office is 303-993-7910. Okay, let's get on and introduce our guest. Dr. Raphael Kelman is a founder of Microbiome Medicine and he identifies how bacteria can help regulate thyroid and overall endocrine function. We're going to talk about that today. So stay tuned about the thyroid hormone test that you may have never heard of.
02:21
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Dr. Kelman explains this complex integral relationship between the microbiome and thyroid disease and hormone balance. By following his very simple steps, you can significantly heal your microbiome and finally be free of the disabling effects of a dysfunctional thyroid and your endocrine system. Through his proven microbiome protocol, you could begin to heal at the deepest level and regain your health and well being and zest for life. You're going to enjoy this philosopher. Let's get to our show. Dr. Kelman, it's so good to talk to you again. And today we'll dive deep into things thyroid, microbiome and everything in between. Microbiome and world peace, right?
02:59
Dr. Raphael Kellman
Absolutely. And global hunger and glow.
03:02
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Everything. Yeah. So stay tuned. You are in for a treat today. What I want to start with is what I start with all my guests is a little bit about your history. How did you get into medicine? How did you get to be doing the work that you're doing? Where did it all start for you?
03:15
Dr. Raphael Kellman
Okay, thank you for the question. So for most, maybe 98%. I don't know where I'm getting this number from. Most people in the world of functional medicine had some personal encounter with a health issue. Right. And then they realized, wait a minute, this regular medicine is not helping me. I see. I tried this and this. It helped me. Now I'm going to be a functional medicine doctor. Not with me. I was never anything different. Yeah, it was from the get go. I never thought anything differently than a whole. Things from the whole. Because you know, you can't understand the human body without understanding nature, how nature works, how bacteria work. Bacteria for example on earth worked in fellowship, in unity to create organic life.
04:13
Dr. Raphael Kellman
If they were fighting with each other, if there wasn't a whole, a unified whole, you and I wouldn't be talking. The computers would be talking to each other, but not me and you. They would be just rocks on earth. So right off the bat. That'S how I think. I studied philosophy of science. It's so obvious in the world of science at least when you see it in truth. And I'll tell you what I mean, everything is understood in terms of complexity, in terms of the whole ecosystems. You know, it doesn't only in medicine there's a change and it becomes reductionism. And then we're so trained to think were just a bunch of things. Everything is things amongst things. It becomes almost. We're so brainwashed we can't even think the way nature thinks anymore.
05:09
Dr. Raphael Kellman
We've become so immune to the real deal and now we've been brainwashed to think. No, everything's components and things don't really relate to anything. All just randomness happened to be happening all over the place. Give it a few billion years and everything will be, sort it out. And then that's why there could be life. I mean, it is absurd. And, and by the way, there's another conversation. It's being debunked. Evolution now could rapidly accelerate what they used to think took a billion years, now a million years. What took a hundred thousand years could be 10,000 years, even 6,000 years rapid acceleration, which debunks that old way of thinking.
05:56
Dr. Raphael Kellman
And the reason why I'm saying this is that if we don't extricate that false, absurd way of thinking, we're going to stumble in every science, especially in medicine, and we're not going to give people the health care that we have available. We're going back to Fred Flintstone while we have something. It's the future. But we could articulate it. Now you and I are, we're talking future and we have it. But if we have those people in universities spewing for crazy science, you know, ideology masquerading as science, it's going to corrupt the whole way of thinking. We're not going to be able to understand the idea of. It's not the survival of the fittest, it's survival of the whole list. You see, everything works in a beautiful ecosystem and it's one ecosystem in another one and another one ad infinitum.
06:54
Dr. Raphael Kellman
Now we have a different story. And now not to reject anything about medicine, but we have now the springboard to create, to see a real incredible eruption of science.
07:07
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Yes.
07:08
Dr. Raphael Kellman
Yeah. You know what it is? We're going to see a desert flourishing with flowers, with apple trees. The notion of scarcity is delusion. No. It has to go along with this whole model of our understanding. It's all wrong. And we're tripping ourselves in terms of medical care. And that's why I never bought into this from the get go. I, I was understanding things from a.
07:41
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Yes.
07:42
Dr. Raphael Kellman
A whole perspective. And also that there's a type of primordial intelligence.
07:49
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Yeah. If we think about, you know, waking up each day and the heart beating and. Right. All of these things are so critical and they happen without our thought process. And that is part of the innate intelligence. And why things like the microbiome and this, it's really systems biology. Right. Like thinking as a systems thinker. And I Know, for you and I in clinic, you know, getting to the complex chronic answers for patients is looking at the whole and putting together the clues versus, like silos, like our rheumatology, our gastroenterology, our parts, so very important.
08:23
Dr. Raphael Kellman
Even further, there's a mind in the body. It's not just a mind here and a body there. And not only that, you could talk about the body, the heart, just that and that. But. But you're talking about the forces, what you see on the surface. You're not speaking in any way about what's beneath all of that now as we talk about the forces of nature, this and the other, but what's underneath it. And if you say nothing, well, okay, then you're talking about a dead situation. But if you say, wait a minute, no, there is something beneath there, and that's beyond functional medicine too. But what is that? Now you'll understand how to get. Create magic because you know the codes beneath the tip of the iceberg.
09:14
Dr. Raphael Kellman
And I'm not just talking about biochemical processes, I'm talking about, well, we see this, we should, but what's beneath that? And what's beneath that? And when you know that, now you're getting to the point of the mind and even beyond that, what's that? My approach is there's a power, a will, and that in nature, you have it. The human being is the highest. That's the philosophy for today, and it's very important. That's how I got.
09:45
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Okay, so that was a really good framework to start because it really is so much more complex. And one thing you emphasize there that I really like is this idea of grit or how do we overcome, or the mind and the thoughts, and those create systems and create energy and create how we function. So it really, those things really do matter in our health. And I think people are talking and philosophers are, but medical doctors aren't thinking about the way that we perceive our bodies, our identity with illness. I find so often someone has an identity of, I have lupus, I am the disease. Right. And they're never going to get well if they identify. So all of these philosophical questions actually really matter. Let's talk though. I really want to go into the microbiome.
10:28
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
You wrote one of the first books on the microbiome and you are an expert in this and it relates to all systems. Do you want to give us a little framework on the power of the microbiome and how.
10:38
Dr. Raphael Kellman
Yeah, that's a good way. You know, the microbiome are trillions of Cells, bacterial cells, they outnumber our own cells, I don't know, 7 to 1. Their genetics outnumbers are 150 to 1. But we're one unit. You know, the heart pumps blood. Kidneys filter blood disease around. It could change genetic expression. It could do a countless number of healing processes in real time. Not only does it send information to the brain and about the nutrients, it's not just, hey, 30% carbs, 20% protein, I'm sending you up information about carnivore. No, it's, come on. It's sending information that we don't even understand. Why it's sending that type of information? Because we write books based on the human cerebrum. The brain, which is so nothing but the microbiome is a primordial knowing. Bacteria started organic life. So therefore what are they sending? What kind of messages?
11:51
Dr. Raphael Kellman
You got to listen. We got to listen to the conversation. Yeah. Then we're going to know what medicine is really about. So it's transmitting this information. It's like I told you before, it's a supercomputer. AI is birthed through bacterial, I call it nature intelligence. There's an intelligence in nature, quote, unquote, intelligence that is incomprehensible. It far exceeds anything we know about AI and it's based on an algorithmic way of thinking. It's not random information. It's based on principles of nature. We know how nature to some degree, we know some of the laws of nature. We see the forces, we don't know the essence. Right, but we see. What is it that we see? Well, this principle, that principle that. Wait a minute. So let's apply this way of thinking into this new AI and then now we're going to call it N.I.
12:56
Dr. Raphael Kellman
Yeah, because it's following. That nature has already given us. Now AI doesn't have it. AI is random stuff. And yeah, one day it's going to come up with its own theory. Okay, great. You know, let's use what already is incarnate in existence. So number one, the microbiome has that information. Okay? It's a supercomputer, period. That's what it is. AI is a sector, is a derivative the microbiome as the supercomputer. It's sending not just information about its biochemicals of food, it's sending the state of overall health, inflammation.
13:38
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
And we now know one of the biggest things with the brain is the gut brain connection because.
13:42
Dr. Raphael Kellman
Exactly. And who's starting the conversation? The microbiome. The microbiome is trans. To the brain. It holds emotions you can't heal if you don't get down to the level, the primordial level of the microbiome.
14:02
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Yeah.
14:02
Dr. Raphael Kellman
Microbiome hears conversations, it hears adverse childhood experiences. It feels, doesn't have to, doesn't know it. Like the brain, which is a recorder.
14:16
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Right.
14:17
Dr. Raphael Kellman
Primordial. It experiences it right there on the spot. That's the real knowing. And now it transmits all of this to the brain. Now.
14:27
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Yeah. And now what's interesting is from when went to medical school, all of this is actually very recent in the literature as far as the. Even the word microbiome. I think in the early 2200s was the first incidence. And now here, 20 some years later, it's. It's epidemic. In how many studies are talking about the microbiome. But this is a relatively new concept in medicine, even though it's profoundly affecting our health. So I love that. And one thing I loved what you said is it's. There's a definition of faith that I love and it's the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. And you're kind of talking in a way about the microbiome perceives this evidence. It's like the wind, right. We see the trees move and it's the evidence of the wind. But we can we see the wind?
15:11
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
No. So this primordial.
15:12
Dr. Raphael Kellman
Beautiful. It's funny, right? I was writing the same thing. We see leaves blowing.
15:17
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Yes.
15:18
Dr. Raphael Kellman
We don't see what's going on.
15:19
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
We don't see the wind.
15:20
Dr. Raphael Kellman
But yeah. Anyone ever see wind or they saw the effects of wind? Right. Yes. So we have to approach. First of all, it gives you tremendous humility, by the way, without humility, you don't. Anything. You don't have humility, you don't have a sense of wonder. You might as well just go back to sleep. But my point is this. We need to harness the intelligence of the microbiome. We need to know what it could do for us. It's anything, any chronic. There's not a single physiological process. There's not a single disease that the microbiome can't turn it around. But it's not that simple because remember that it's been entrenched in such garbage that we put into it. Yes, exists. Look. It could change genetic expression. It modulates the immune system. Not only it teaches the immune system. Could you imagine that?
16:22
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Oh, it's absolutely. The teacher. Yes.
16:26
Dr. Raphael Kellman
How does it teach it? I don't know, but it does. If you would not have the microbiome, the immune system will burn down that building. You know, Covid, you know how Covid worked? Smart. Just has to do one thing, attack the microbiome and everything falls apart from there. Then the immune system, this breaks down, it crumbles. And now the type of inflammation we've seen, we saw an example of what happens when your microbiome is not healthy. There's no doubt that the microbiome was its strategy. Hit that first and then we'll deal with everything else. And that's what happened. People were dying from inflammation. So the microbiome therefore plays a central. Now I use that as the main treatment. Okay. Now this is not just let's improve your irritable bowel so much beyond that, let's improve your brain.
17:24
Dr. Raphael Kellman
This is a software, an intelligence, a supercomputer that will help us.
17:31
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Yeah.
17:32
Dr. Raphael Kellman
Heal your health issues.
17:34
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Exactly. And it's.
17:35
Dr. Raphael Kellman
No, I'm going to say this very carefully, but I want to say this to. Sorry.
17:39
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
I say it's no wonder that in functional integrative medicine circles and all of us who practice this personalized approach have always said start with the gut. Because really I want to dive into practical.
17:49
Dr. Raphael Kellman
I said start. Start with the microbiome.
17:52
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Yes, yes, 100%. And I couldn't agree more.
17:56
Dr. Raphael Kellman
So practically speaking, and you know, I'll tell you something, it's. It's precision. It's not just throw in this probiotic that.
18:03
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Right.
18:03
Dr. Raphael Kellman
It is. Has to be so nuanced.
18:06
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Yes.
18:06
Dr. Raphael Kellman
For cancer, different probiotics, autoimmune.
18:10
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Yes.
18:10
Dr. Raphael Kellman
And also between different autoimmune diseases. If you have Hashimoto's, this plan, if you have rheumatoid arthritis, it's nuanced. So how do you know what to do? Well, this is where ni, by the way, comes in. Well, you know, for example, what cytokines, what molecules of the immune system that could potentially damage. It's not balanced. Is associated with Hashimoto's, let's say whatever IL6 or whatever it is. We know that. Right. So now we have to say to ourselves, well, what compounds of the immune system cytokines or whatever, postbiotics, compounds that the microbiome produces can heal that can deal with that? Now we know. We know it's this and that. Okay, how are we going to produce this? Are we going to buy it in a store? Or are we going to get our natural pharmaceutical company to produce it for us?
19:07
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Right. In the microbiome I'm going to get.
19:09
Dr. Raphael Kellman
I could show you how we can get fire in the gut to do what we needed to do. And now all of a sudden the microbiome is producing the very compounds the postbiotics. You need to improve your Hashimoto's. Yes. And now that we now know, we with precision how to activate the microbiome to selectively increase certain populations within. It's like pruning of a vineyard. And now with that type of precision, you're getting a healthier Amazon and you're getting the precision of compounds that the system is missing. So now that's with, you know, now you also have to take into account the personalized story. Let's say there's also depression. That means not just different probiotics, different prebiotics. So now we're talking about 100 different things. You know, okay. We have rheumatoid arthritis and irritable bowel. What do we do?
20:16
Dr. Raphael Kellman
Well, I'm going to look in a book. It's beyond the book. It's an intuitive knowing. So, so I've been working with this I know since 2005. So I got to know bacteria. It's not just explain it. It's not just information, it's not just knowledge. It's not just the intellect. There's another dimension of knowing. It's an intuitive knowing. It's like, give an example, you're a dog walker, right? You don't know. I'm going to get 10 different dogs now. I want to figure out how are they going to work together, how they're going to interact. I look on the computer. Yeah, they're gonna do great together. And then you take them all together and then they're barking at you and they're fighting with each other. What's going on? You don't the certain things. You can't rely on the human intellect.
21:05
Dr. Raphael Kellman
There's another dimension Einstein said greater than my intellect is my intuition. This is how we understand the microbiome. You can't really teach it. This is the microbiome. So I harness it for the treatment of a wide variety of diseases. For example, let's say gut issues, right? Irritable bowel, sibo, whatever it is. If you know how to use to harness the power of the microbiome, sibo is not difficult. You know how many times they take this and then it comes back, refracts me. I have patients for 14 years, 10 years, 87 years, you know, three years, the same story. Bloating. Diarrhea, constipation, they're afraid to go to a Board meeting because they don't know what's going to happen. Yeah. You know how many times I hear. You probably heard this a million times. I feel like I'm six months pregnant. Right.
22:01
Dr. Raphael Kellman
You know, it's a constant preoccupation because it's, they're constantly feeling it. So what happens? They use these herbs. Oh, nice. They got a little bit better. Then three months later they come back. The, the recurrence rate is extraordinarily high. Rifaxim and. Oh, got better. Great. They come back, they do another round, then another round. Right. Oh, no, we're missing this. Let's try these herbs. You know, you know, it's, there's some benefit to functional medicine in that domain, but it's missing the key thing. Establish a healthy microbiome. I do this all the time. And I can tell you, I mean, countless number of patients with the same story, that saga finally comes to an end with the right treatments. And it's not generic. It's so nuanced and individualized.
22:56
Dr. Raphael Kellman
And many people come to me, I'm telling you, of course, the country, when they hear about it, but you have to appreciate the intelligence and the power that we have it within us. You don't need to sponsor refaxment. Who makes it? I don't know.
23:11
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Right.
23:12
Dr. Raphael Kellman
They have, they don't need our sponsorship.
23:15
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Hey, guys, Just a quick interruption to remind you if you haven't yet stopped by drjillhealth.com you can find products and services to meet you wherever you're at with whatever illness you're struggling from. We've got some protocols and packets there too. Things like ibs, sibo, Epstein Barr, mast cell activation syndrome, and really everything in. On that same site, you can find my Dr. Jill Beauty line that is clean and effective for anti aging and beautiful skin. Check it out@Dr.jill health.com. Okay, let's get back to our show. Well, and you're also alluding to a fact that I think is so important. I've talked many times on this podcast. We have analytical mind and a scientific background in medicine. However, there's a limit to the power and knowledge we can get from. Just like you said multiple times already.
24:01
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
And there's this intuition that is God given and innate. And as a physician, when we really get to know the patients and their specific labs and specific protocols or their specific situation, there's often, at least for me, an intelligence that is beyond the science. Right. And it's that understanding them and Trusting that gut feeling. That gut feeling which makes sense is even proven in the studies to be more accurate for physicians to follow than the textbook.
24:28
Dr. Raphael Kellman
This is Jill. I don't know. So many years ago. I wrote a book called Gut Reactions. You know what I was saying is this is not a metaphor.
24:38
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Yeah.
24:38
Dr. Raphael Kellman
And when language develops. Oh, let's create metaphors.
24:41
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Yeah.
24:41
Dr. Raphael Kellman
No, no, it is real. You know, you know, indigenous communities and you know, nations, they've around right here in New York City. I go to certain areas and there's an energy there because you know, Native Americans were there, they knew this, they understood this. We should be able to understand it. But you know why we don't? Because we're deadened. I say to us, let's go. Let Alan Musk. What's his first name? Alan. I don't even want to know his first name. What's his first. Mr. Moss. Let him walk with me in Central park or in an Amazon. And I'm going to show him a seed. I'm going to show him a seed. And I'm saying this to whatever Bill Gates, Mr. Whoever's up there in technology, you see this seed? Look, the from this seed that 300 foot tree grew.
25:33
Dr. Raphael Kellman
Can you explain that to me? Tell me about your out your software that you have in your AI that will explain. I like to say, please, what is he going to answer?
25:45
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Yeah, well, we're again in. Even our medical training is very founded on this left brain analytical science, which is fine. However, I think what you and I are saying is there's so much more I want to shift because.
25:58
Dr. Raphael Kellman
Exactly.
25:58
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Yeah.
26:05
Dr. Raphael Kellman
I do is I call it foundational medicine. It's second generation functional medicine. Functional medicine. The era is changing. It's. It's the past already. We have to look at things now in terms of the mind within. And then it goes to another level. We're talking even beyond contractor. That's another discussion. I don't want to get off track. But it's a new era and this plays a profound role. So many people that I've seen have improved, gotten better. Not because it's a combination, it's a merger. Like I'm talking about the microbiome. I use probiotics again like I was saying, in ways that are different. But you instill in people, wow, what are we talking about here? And that changes without saying a word. It changes something deep inside. And I know what you went through.
27:04
Dr. Raphael Kellman
There's something that clicks when everything starts to work together and all the arrows are going in the Same direction.
27:11
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Yeah.
27:11
Dr. Raphael Kellman
And boom, there's something that changes. We all could do that, but we have to understand, we have to work with what we have already, and then we'll see. I call it endogenous healing.
27:25
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Yes.
27:25
Dr. Raphael Kellman
It's elegant and powerful. That's what I do. And I don't do anything else in terms of gut issues. Right. Look, if it's an autoimmune disorder, you can't. The microbiome is the most important treatment. Right. If you leave that out, you don't have the foundation. Right. You include it. Wow. Now you have the foundation. And now you'll have a springboard. You may need to add a few things. Listen, thyroid hormone, you may need to detox. Yes. We don't leave that. I don't leave that out. But you need a foundation.
28:04
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
You have even those other treatments. Thyroid hormone or detox. You're using the gut micro.
28:09
Dr. Raphael Kellman
What does I do? We'll get into that. Look, I use peptides, I use carnitine, I use nad. I have a whole list of things that I use. But you want it to work. You want, you want a springboard. You think it doesn't work the same way in this office and another office. It's like you're baking a cake. Why does someone who bakes a cake but the same ingredients comes out so different? The, the. I do all these other treatments. I use a lot of peptides. I create, I create my own. Because you just, you need creativity. It's not just, oh, let me follow what they taught me at a conference. When you understand the inner workings of nature, of you on every dimension.
28:52
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Yeah.
28:52
Dr. Raphael Kellman
You don't need anyone to tell you anything about the process or how to lead. You lead. You could get help from other people and you help them. But most important is this. The microbiome is the bottom line is this. You have to know the facts. You have to know to create the science. And you have to have the intuitive knowing to know how you work. They work together. You put them together in the right way. Now you see results. You finally could get over your ibs. Bloating gets better. The constipation. It's all through precision. Microbiome. That's the gut. Autoimmune disorders. Look, Hashimoto's. It's an epidemic. Epidemic now. Especially after Covid and all these other things. So what do I do about this? Number one is called microbiome. First, improve the microbiome and now you weigh there.
29:53
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
So let's get practical on the microbiome. What's like 1, 2, 3? Where do you start with like? Give us steps of what someone might ask their doctor for or ask questions about the microbiome.
30:13
Dr. Raphael Kellman
Of the abnormalities in the microbiome. You don't need to do stool testing. You can look in the blood and you could see the effects the microbiome is having on you. Now you look at all these blood numbers and then markers and you say based on this, you know which probiotics they need. Right. So it's individualized. The bloods will give you much more information than a stool test. So now you have these abnormal blood testing. They're not.
30:36
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
So wait, let's get specific examples of abnormal blood tests so that people. Oh, yeah.
30:40
Dr. Raphael Kellman
Okay, so for example, interleukin 6.
30:43
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Yes.
30:43
Dr. Raphael Kellman
TNF alpha, Treg cells, interleukin 10. Thyroid is low. Yeah, I'm ready. Yeah.
31:01
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Okay. So you were talking about stool is one thing. We do a lot of functional stool tests, but the blood tells us a whole lot more. Do you want to dive into that as far as how we can look at markers in the blood, maybe give some specific examples and how they affect the gut? Microbiome?
31:16
Dr. Raphael Kellman
Yeah. You know, there's no one healthy microbiome. There's no one unhealthy. It's like, well, it's so many. You could do biome testing and this testing, it's, in the end, it's really how it's affecting you. Right. So a microbiome for one person is healthy. It's not healthy for another person. So what do you do? Ultimately? You want to see how the body's responding.
31:37
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Yes.
31:38
Dr. Raphael Kellman
So you get different markers. It's a lot of different immunological compounds that are produced in an unhealthy state and they're different. So let's say you have, I don't know, let's say five different potential. Let's say TNF alpha, interleukin 6, interleukin 10, and there's many others, you know. Now you say, wait a minute, that's not healthy. And it must mean this is the issue. So then you could decide in a much better way what's the best probiotic.
32:07
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Yeah.
32:08
Dr. Raphael Kellman
What's the best postbiotic? In my opinion, more important than anything, which are the compounds that the microbiome produces that would best for this person. Yeah. And you know, you have how many. You have urolithin, and these are just names. Butyrate, the weight loss medicines. Where does it come from? The microbiome.
32:29
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Right.
32:29
Dr. Raphael Kellman
Then, you know, then you know, so I love that.
32:33
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
And even GLP ones, the weight loss medicines, we should talk here because most people have no idea we naturally produce this in our microbiome with short chain fatty acids and the healthy gut. So we get all excited about this drug. It's a peptide that our body produces naturally.
32:48
Dr. Raphael Kellman
Right, yeah. So, you know, the closest CVS to you, right here. Right here, Exactly. Yeah, yeah, it's, you know what it is? They didn't let everyone. They took advantage of people's, you know, tick tock mentality, you know. Okay, yeah, well, I asked him, what is that made? I don't know where Pfizer makes. Comes from us. The whole thing was taken from what we. What the body produces.
33:13
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Exactly.
33:14
Dr. Raphael Kellman
And then, yeah, you know what's to come. Some other ones. But the microbiome produces all of them.
33:20
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Exactly.
33:21
Dr. Raphael Kellman
It's not one. It's the combination of all these weight loss compounds. And if you want to improve metabolism, you have to improve the microbiome. I developed the mrp, the Microbiome Renewal protocol that I do. It's that you will activate not just GLP1, GLP2, but a myriad of other hormones that now will work in unison. You know, you look at my book, the Microbiome Diet, this is way before we'll go over here. Obviously people would say, I don't know, I wasn't even trying to lose weight. I don't know, my appetite, it went down to normal. I'm no longer, you know, constantly thinking about food. Yeah, well, of course, because you built up WeGovy in you.
34:00
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Exactly, exactly. And I love telling people that, because people don't realize how this all comes from our natural state, if we can enhance it. Before we wrap up, I want to talk about thyroid because we mentioned that the forgotten thyroid hormone and the test that many people aren't thinking of. You mentioned Hashimoto's, which of course is very related to the gut. But do you want to give a little synopsis on how you view thyroid and what is the forgotten hormone?
34:27
Dr. Raphael Kellman
Yeah, you know, look, Nigel, I. When I first started, I was seeing a lot of people that had all the symptoms of low thyroid. They weren't really that interested in holistic medicine, so to speak. But they had this problem. They had all the typical symptoms. Fatigue. Constipation, brain fog, gaining weight for no reason. They didn't change their diets. They would say, I don't know, I feel like I'm. My metabolism is broken, I'm aging rapidly. They had all the Symptoms and hair thinning, etc. Debilitating fatigue, feeling more tired in the morning than when they went to sleep, etc. All the labs were normal. They themselves said, something's going on here. But I go to my doctor. No, everything's fine. Other time, no. Mrs. Jones, you're healthy. Your labs are normal. He said, I don't feel healthy. I don't feel normal.
35:19
Dr. Raphael Kellman
I see enough of these people. At the beginning, I said, now there's something wrong with the testing. Nothing wrong with you. This is Joan, I believe you. You're right. Yeah. Let's go. I remember Jill. There was another test that I learned about called the TRH stimulation test. It's a much better test. So no one was using anymore because it was already HMOs. Who wants the patient sitting in your office for 25 minutes? You don't get paid. It's an expensive thing. Test. I found an old timer. He taught me how to use it, how to do it. So now I don't. Me and him were the only ones doing it. Everyone stopped. And so when you do thyroid testing, you just look at the T3, T4 in the blood, but it changes. But when this change. But the source. Yeah, of the hormone, the tsh.
36:12
Dr. Raphael Kellman
When this is low, the pituitary produces more TSH to wake it up.
36:17
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Yes.
36:17
Dr. Raphael Kellman
Right. But sometimes the TSH looks normal for many reasons. It's another five shows, so I can't rely on that. But if I could look into the pituitary gland.
36:29
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Yes.
36:29
Dr. Raphael Kellman
And I see so much TSH in there. Why? Because it knows your thyroid is low. You see what I'm saying? So now you're not. You get the answer in real time. You're not dependent on bloods. That could be all over the place. You know, you go to the doctor, nine in the morning. Oh, your thyroid is perfect. Yes. Another one.
36:48
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
When they took the thyroid. So get specific. Tell us, how is this.
36:51
Dr. Raphael Kellman
Okay? So what I do is it's totally safe. I did it, kids. You inject trh, which is a hormone from the hypothalamus.
37:00
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Yes.
37:00
Dr. Raphael Kellman
That stimulates the pituitary to release tsh. Now, remember, if your thyroid is low, the pituitary measures it and it says, it's low. We have to send out TSH to try to get it going. That means there's going to be a lot of TSH in there. Now, I look, I stimulate.
37:20
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Boom.
37:21
Dr. Raphael Kellman
A blast of tsh. Why? Your thyroid is low? Yes. And now it doesn't. It's. It doesn't Go up and down. It is what it is right there. Now, I know by looking at the reservoir.
37:33
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Yeah.
37:34
Dr. Raphael Kellman
Why are the troops building up? I don't see it in the blood, but I know that there's a problem because that's why it's building up. Tsh, the routine blood testing, it's missing it.
37:47
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
So now saying this is a parallel to like ACTH stimulation test.
37:51
Dr. Raphael Kellman
Well, there's. There's some. Yeah, in many ways it is. Look, you know, it's like an EKG versus an echo cardigan. You know, look, you avoid the. The vacillations and of the blood levels that could change, you know, and. And the range is just too small. But, you know, now you get a bigger range. You see the real deal because it's not about the blood levels that change all over the place. You see where it's coming from, what, how much is in there. And then you have numbers. I have a lot more information, you know, on my website, if I could say what the website is. What's the website?
38:34
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Yeah.
38:37
Dr. Raphael Kellman
I know, because it's a complicated.
38:39
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Actually, let's pause because I want to make sure that's what people are going to ask. Where can we find you? And what. So kilmanmd.com is your website?
38:46
Dr. Raphael Kellman
Yeah, kalmanmd.com.
38:49
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Good.
38:50
Dr. Raphael Kellman
You know, I have ebooks about it. It's. It's an incredible test. And this. What's the Instagram, Dr. Kelman. Good.
38:59
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
And we'll link up if you're out there listening, as always, guys, in the show notes, we're going to have links to all of Dr. Kelman's Connections podcast. All of this will be linked up.
39:11
Dr. Raphael Kellman
I want to help people, Jill. We're dealing with an epidemic. And you know, it's not just. They're not getting it. They're taking people down the wrong road. You don't have this. Right. This one test can change lives.
39:24
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
I love that. And the patient's always right when they come to us and say something's not right. Doctor, Our job is to listen and help them figure out what that is and not just say, well, your labs look normal. Right?
39:37
Dr. Raphael Kellman
God bless you. You know, there were very few doctors in your art that I would go to. God, God bless you. I would. I always think of you. I look at. I hear some things about you. Yeah, she's really. She knows what. Jill knows what she's talking about now. Aren't too many people like that.
39:53
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
That means a lot coming from you. And I've always respected you and your work and today, despite our little technical difficulties, amazing information. What we're going to have to do is have to have you come back and we're going to dive deep. I would love to be the microbiome and the more the deep source. But for now, Kelman MD if you want to get more information about the thyroid testing, about your work, about your books. How many books have you written now?
40:16
Dr. Raphael Kellman
Like 10.
40:17
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Wow.
40:19
Dr. Raphael Kellman
I have another one coming out.
40:20
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Oh, good. What's that?
40:22
Dr. Raphael Kellman
Oh, the human will. Why only through its transformation can we save the world?
40:29
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
I love it. It's kind of where we started our conversation. And the power of the human and the consciousness. Yes. Love it. Well, I can't wait to read that book. And Dr. Kelman, thank you so much for your time.
40:41
Dr. Raphael Kellman
Thank you. Absolutely. Change the world.
40:45
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
You, too. All right.
40:46
Dr. Raphael Kellman
Thank you.
40:47
Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD
Hey, guys, hope you enjoyed that episode with Dr. Kelman. You can find all the links and information about his books and his website below. And if you haven't yet subscribed, please do hit the subscribe button. We really appreciate all the subscribers. I think on YouTube we're going on over 740,000 subscribers as I record this. And as you know, we have new episodes out each week. If you haven't yet popped into Dr. Jill health.com, you can find all of my products and services there. And I will see you again next week for a new episode of Resiliency Radio.
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