Joining Dr. Jill Carnahan is Jane Hogan, a living testament to the transformative effects of a healing mindset. Jane shares her personal journey of battling pain and how she navigated through it by incorporating meditation and mindfulness practices into her daily routine. Her story is an inspiring reminder that with the right mindset, we can overcome any obstacle and create a life filled with joy and fulfillment.

Webinar Mentioned in the Podcast: https://www.thewellnessengineer.com/webinarJC

Key Points

• How pain and illness can be messengers of transformation and healing
• How to use mind, body and spirit to get to root cause of illness and heal chronic pain
• Join us for a short mindfulness meditation in real time at the end of the interview.

Our Guest – Jane Hogan

Jane Hogan, “The Wellness Engineer,” blends proven leading-edge science and ancient spiritually-inspired practices to help people release chronic pain using the mind, body and breath so they can become empowered creators of their own health. Her personal experience of reversing crippling rheumatoid arthritis using natural solutions inspired her to leave a 30-year engineering career and become a Functional Medicine Certified Health Coach, Certified Yoga Teacher and wellness educator.

Website: https://thewellnesssengineer.com
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/JaneHoganHealth/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/janehoganhealth
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/janehoganhealth

Dr. Jill

Dr. Jill Carnahan is Your Functional Medicine Expert® dually board certified in Family Medicine for ten years and in Integrative Holistic Medicine since 2015. She is the Medical Director of Flatiron Functional Medicine, a widely sought-after practice with a broad range of clinical services including functional medical protocols, nutritional consultations, chiropractic therapy, naturopathic medicine, acupuncture, and massage therapy.

As a survivor of breast cancer, Crohn’s disease, and toxic mold illness she brings a unique perspective to treating patients in the midst of complex and chronic illness. Her clinic specializes in searching for the underlying triggers that contribute to illness through cutting-edge lab testing and tailoring the intervention to specific needs. 

A popular inspirational speaker and prolific writer, she shares her knowledge of hope, health, and healing live on stage and through newsletters, articles, books, and social media posts! People relate to Dr. Jill’s science-backed opinions delivered with authenticity, love and humor. She is known for inspiring her audience to thrive even in the midst of difficulties.

Featured in Shape Magazine, Parade, Forbes, MindBodyGreen, First for Women, Townsend Newsletter, and The Huffington Post as well as seen on NBC News and Health segments with Joan Lunden, Dr. Jill is a media must-have. Her YouTube channel and podcast features live interviews with the healthcare world’s most respected names. 

The Podcast

The Video

The Transcript

175: Resiliency Radio with Dr. Jill: How to Embrace a Healing Mindset with Jane Hogan

Dr. Jill  00:12
Well, hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Resiliency Radio with Dr. Jill! Today I have a special friend and guest, Jane Hogan. Jane, The Wellness Engineer, blends proven leading-edge science and ancient spiritually inspired practices to help people release chronic pain using the mind, body, and breath so that they can become empowered creators of their own health. Her personal experience of reversing crippling rheumatoid arthritis using natural solutions inspired her to leave a 30-year engineering career and become a functional medicine-certified health coach, certified yoga teacher, and wellness educator. Jane, welcome!

Jane Hogan  00:50
Thank you so much, Jill! I'm so happy to be here. I love the work that you do. You're such a shining, bright light in this space. So thank you so much for what you're doing. Thank you for having me here.

Dr. Jill  01:02
You are so welcome! And we were just talking before. We had to try a couple of times. I am so glad we're here. And it was my fault. I think I had canceled because of random life things and I was so excited to see you on the schedule, to talk today, and to get to know you even better. So I always love to start with [one's] story. Obviously, we heard a little glimpse of what brought you here, but give me a glimpse into your life. And how did you get from engineering to [being] a holistic health coach?

Jane Hogan  01:31
I know. It's a huge jump, right? Well, my story is because of pain, really. I was in my engineering career. My children were all raised and I had a very stressful year. And I know you understand all about stress and the impact it has on your health. So very quickly, within three months, I went from being a healthy, strong, vibrant woman to being barely able to walk, [with] inflammation throughout my body, knees swollen, hands swollen, feet swollen, [along with my] jaw, shoulders, elbow, and all kinds of painful joints. I knew it had to be related to stress because it was so obvious, right? But my doctor didn't know what was going on. I have a very progressive doctor and she did say that sometimes the foods we eat can be related to joint pain. So I thought, “I'm just going to try it.” And she said, “gluten and dairy.” I also cut out sugar. I just cut them out cold turkey.

Dr. Jill  02:36
Yes. Those are the top three that I always try too, just because if we don't have testing, most likely those three are culprits.

Jane Hogan  02:43
Yes. Before this happened, though, I was really at a low point. I have to throw this in as well to let you know that. When I was having this lowest point, I didn't know how this had happened and I couldn't see a way out because we didn't know what it was. I thought, “If this is the way my life is going to be, I'm ready to be done.” I was curled up in pain. My husband was gone to work. And I was just waking up another day, [thinking]: “It's still here. What is this?” And right after I had that thought, I had another thought—a voice. In me, outside me, I don't know. But it said: “Your life is not going to turn out like this. You are going to figure it out and you're going to teach other people.” So that's kind of why I'm here now—because I had a calling. 

Jane Hogan  03:33

So after that moment, I was still in pain. I still didn't know what it was, but I had this deep inner knowing that I was going to figure it out. So I started okay with the food, and I did have a reduction in pain and I thought: “This is great. I'm not a victim anymore. There's something I can do.” And that led me down the road. I started researching a bit more. It led me to functional medicine. So I learned a bit more about functional medicine. I went to my doctor and said, “I think I need some tests done.” And she said: “I can't do it for you—not in this system. You need to see a naturopath.” So I found a functional medicine practitioner. I went through that. But I had some infections and overgrowth in my gut, and I had to get that fixed. It took me another little while. 

Jane Hogan  04:17

With all these layers, I was feeling a little bit better all along, but it wasn't completely gone. And I felt like I was in this big rush because it was diagnosed eventually as rheumatoid arthritis. And all you hear are [things] like joint destruction and permanent damage. So I felt like I was in a big rush against time. I was creating more stress. The food restrictions were creating more stress. And I realized that all this was really happening for me, not to me. That led me on a real inward journey. So I'll stop there and see where you want to go with that, Dr. Jill.

Dr. Jill  04:56
First of all, I'm getting goosebumps as you're talking. First of all, the engineering background. I'm a bioengineer from undergrad. So I love that background because that framework is a problem solver, right? You look at the complete structure. I was never meant to be an engineer, but you and I in our fields have now done that work. Now we use that. I feel like it's a scaffolding or framework for really good problem-solving, right? So I just love that commonality and the way of looking at life.

Dr. Jill  05:23

The second thing you said [was]: I had a “deep inner knowing.” That's when my whole body got goosebumps. So often I get asked, “What creates resilience? What is it?” They might be looking at, like you or me, the diagnosis of pain or, for me, Crohn's, cancer, or whatever thing our listeners are looking at. And there's this piece: How can I overcome this? How can I feel happy in this really difficult, dark time?

Dr. Jill  05:49

And I want to speak to that because there's something I think I learned from Viktor Frankl and some of the people who have suffered far worse than you and me. I could cry right now thinking of the suffering that some of our ancestors, some of the Holocaust survivors, and some of my biggest heroes in life have gone through. It's nothing compared to what I've suffered, right? Yet, in that deep, deep suffering and in horrific situations, they also had a deep inner knowing. And it's that inner fortitude that I think creates resilience or not resilience or the survivors versus the people who don't make it.

Dr. Jill  06:22

And that's not to say it's all your fault, so I am not blaming it on the person. But I love that you said that and I want to go there in a few minutes as far as: What does that mean? And how do we actually get into that place?—because I believe we all have that innate ability to have a deep inner knowing. And that deep inner knowing gives us the confidence to look for answers, which is exactly what you started to do.

Dr. Jill  06:43

So take it from here. So you obviously found functional medicine. And just like you described, there are layers, right? It's like: “Okay, there's the foods.” “Oh, then there's the gut.” “Oh, then there's inflammation.” So you kind of go down through the layers. And what I love [is that]—we started talking about it right before we got on too—you include mind, body, and spirit. Functional medicine is very physical based. It's important to look at the diet and the lifestyle, but it's bigger than that, isn't it? So keep going and telling us how you got into that bigger picture.

Jane Hogan  07:12
It is so much bigger. I've interviewed hundreds of people now as well. I did a summit and with my podcast as well, I've interviewed so many people. So often, it comes back to that emotional component. I heard Deepak Chopra say in a meditation one time: The mind creates the body. And everything we're learning from quantum physics, which is really just proving the ancient spirituality is that this is a physical creation and a physical manifestation of what's going on inside. And because for me, I knew that it was very related to emotions, I knew emotions turn this on; emotions should be able to turn it off. But I didn't know how. And that really took me a long time to figure that out. So yes, [it's about] this deep inner knowing and this belief that we can physically change your body. And that's a hard one for people to get to because we're not taught that.

Dr. Jill  08:23
Right. I just want to pause there because if you can believe that something else is possible, that's where healing starts. If you can't even believe that it's possible, you're never going to get there, or very rarely, maybe by some accident. So I wanted to focus on that because I think that belief is what starts to shift what happens in our bodies, right? And the same with me; it's almost accidental. Maybe for you back then, you didn't know how powerful that deep inner knowing was. Now looking back, we can both say, “Oh, that's part of what carried me forward,” right?

Jane Hogan  08:57
It was. I had this belief from whatever it was that spoke to me. And I've always sort of believed that I've been protected, that I'm not alone, or that I have a higher self. I've always kind of believed that. But that was very clear. And I think sometimes it happens at rock bottom moments. But then it also made me seek out stories. So we can Google and find answers to anything. But the questions you ask are what's important. So I started seeking out stories of people who had healed rheumatoid arthritis naturally. And then I thought: “If they can do it, I can do it. And if I can do it, I can be an example of what's possible for other people.” So I kept doing that.

Jane Hogan  09:46

There were other things that were kind of tied up because the stressful year I had began with my mother dying. We were very, very close. It was sudden. She had always been my champion. When she was gone, I was like: “I have to be my own champion. I have to speak to myself the way my mother would. I'm almost getting weepy talking about her. It's been eight years now. I had to speak to myself the way she would speak to me. So I did. I started looking in the mirror, saying: “I'm so proud of you, Jamie. You're doing so well! You can do this. You're just getting started!” I'd speak to myself like that.

Jane Hogan  10:28

I also created visions because I had done a lot of personal development and knew about the power of visioning and so on. So I started visioning myself doing the things I couldn't do then but I wanted to do again [such as] climbing a mountain and being up at the top—you're climbing a mountain too [in] your mountain story—and sailing. I picture myself on a sailboat, hoisting up the sails, throwing a grandchild up and catching them. I don't have any grandchildren. But these are the kinds of things that I would picture in my mind of what I would do. I think it's so powerful.Our minds are so powerful. We create visions in our minds and the brain can't really tell the difference—pretty close anyway—between what we see with our eyes and what we imagine in our minds, so it will try to resolve that. So I was doing a lot of different things that I didn't really realize. 

Jane Hogan  11:21

But for the longest time, I was still kind of like, “warrior—I'm going to fight this” way instead of the surrender [aspect]. You have to have a surrender like: “That's happening for me. So how can I understand why and what it is I need to learn?” There's a ton of research on rheumatoid arthritis, illness in general, and how the body responds to emotions. There's Gabor Maté's book, When the Body Says No, and The Body Keeps the Score, by Bessel van der Kolk and so many others. So there's this clear connection between emotions, especially the things that we've been thinking [about] over and over again for all of our lives, really. 

Jane Hogan  12:09

So I had to start looking back over my life and I realized that, from a very young age, I didn't have any big trauma. And I know you're in the same boat. I didn't have any big trauma, but I had an older sibling who liked to tease me until I started to stutter. So I didn't believe that I had anything to say. And I had this low self-worth even though you would think on the outside: I'm an engineer [with] a good job; I was doing all the things. And I knew it was kind of there underneath. 

Jane Hogan  12:45

Any little bit of criticism—oh, I would melt. Perfectionism. People pleasing. What they're calling fawning now. So there's fear of fawn. I was fawning. I did engineering because my father wanted me to do engineering. So I realized that there was a whole lifetime that I was carrying underneath this undercurrent of stress. And everything kind of fell in when my mom died. And then my brother and all of this stuff going on—and I love my brothers; I had to work on forgiveness as well—it was just a lot at once, and my bucket just got too full and my body said no.

Dr. Jill (pre-recording)  13:24
Hey, everybody. I just stopped by to let you know that my new book, Unexpected: Finding Resilience through Functional Medicine, Science, and Faith, is now available for order wherever you purchase books. In this book, I share my own journey of overcoming a life-threatening illness and the tools, tips, tricks, hope, and resilience I found along the way. This book includes practical advice for things like cancer and Crohn's disease and other autoimmune conditions, infections like Lyme or Epstein-Barr, and mold- and biotoxin-related illnesses. What I really hope is that as you read this book, you find transformational wisdom for health and healing. If you want to get your own copy, stop by ReadUnexpected.com. There, you can also collect your free bonuses. So grab your copy today and begin your own transformational journey through functional medicine and finding resilience.

Jane Hogan  14:21
And it was calling for me to help.

Dr. Jill  14:24
You just described that so eloquently. If we reframe it, often illness or suffering—I would never wish it on anyone—what we can do is see it as an awakening or a gift. And with that comes this ability to say, “Okay, what is this trying to tell me?” I look back at [when I was] 25 [with] breast cancer. I'm like, “Oh, my body was just trying to get my attention,” because, just like you, I was pushing and driving [myself] way too hard and not being kind. When you described how you talked to yourself like your mother would, oh, I love that. That's so powerful and healing because I always say, “Sweetheart, you're doing a great job” and those kinds of things. We talk to other people like that very easily usually, but it's very hard to put that on ourselves. But unless we're actually kind to our own bodies and our own minds, we don't get good results.

Dr. Jill  15:13

And I love that you talked about the fight because I was the same thing—this fighter, fighter, fighter. And then I was like: “Oh, this is killing me. I need to shift my mindset and be more of a comrade or a partner with myself in the healing.” [There were] so many important points. So you've dealt with rheumatoid arthritis, completely reversing that. And your book soon will be Pain-Free by Design. I asked you before, and you were like, “Oh, it's coming.” So stay tuned, everyone. If you like this episode, Jane will have a book. I'll check in with you on when that is and we'll share it. We'll have to do another episode.

Dr. Jill  15:45

But I want to talk specifically about pain because so many people out there are dealing with pain, whether it's emotional or physical. Let's talk about the physical first, though. How does pain become “Oh, I hurt my elbow” [and then turn] into chronic where you wake up one day… And tell us a little about your shift, because usually it's not like [on] Tuesday you're perfectly fine and Wednesday you wake up with massive pain everywhere. How quickly did that manifest? And how did it actually happen where you're like, “Oh, I'm in pain and I can't function.”

Jane Hogan  16:12
Mm. For me. I was working on getting my mother's house ready to sell. This was coming a year after she had passed. I was doing a lot of painting, packing, and a ton of stuff. She lived a seven-hour drive from me and I had a weekend and a bit to do it. So I was going like the Eveready bunny. So I was just working really hard. I was like: “Wow, I think I was painting too hard. This shoulder hurts.” And then the next day, like, “Oh, it's this shoulder.” And then I got back and went to physio. It was crazy. I would go in and say, “I know I was here for my left shoulder last week, but it's my right elbow this time” or “It's my left knee,” and it was just shifting around. I felt like someone had a voodoo doll and they were just sticking pins in different places.

Jane Hogan  17:04

And then it really settled in. I thought: “Okay, I just need the house to be sold and all this to be done. I'll be fine and have a vacation.” So I did that. And then it just got worse—the inflammation—in my knees. I've got pictures. I didn't really take a lot of pictures and stuff at that time, but I took a picture of my knees only because it was the first time I had acupuncture. So I took a picture of my knees and they were grotesquely swollen. There's no way that I could walk very well. There was no wonder I was in so much pain. My hands as well. I just kept on thinking it was something else. I got orthotics. I thought: “Okay, I guess I'm 50. I need orthotics now.” And it was none of those things. So yes, it came on pretty quickly. 

Jane Hogan  17:46

And I help people with pain in general, not just specifically rheumatoid arthritis, just because, and I'm sure you think this as well, the diagnosis is just a label. It's just a label, and it really doesn't matter. Our body is talking to us how it's talking to us. It could be skin, right? It could be inflamed skin. It could be inflammatory bowels. It could be chronic pain. It could be rashes. It's all kinds of things. It could be brain fog. So there are a lot of different things. But I help people with pain. 

Jane Hogan  18:26

Pain is actually a good thing, right? It's a protection. Our body gives us pain to protect us. And with that acute pain, if you burn yourself, that pain makes you pull your hand away. So it's a good thing. When it's sticking around for longer than, say, three months or four months, then it's called chronic pain. Sometimes there can be a physical reason for it. Sometimes there can be a diagnosis. But sometimes there's no reason for it and people don't really understand. I kind of think it doesn't matter. In fact, sometimes people are given a reason and that just makes our brain believe…

Dr. Jill  19:07
The loop, right? We're getting that loop of, “Oh, I'm going to have pain because I have this.” And just like you said earlier, I loved what you talked about; you were talking about subconscious programming. If we believe something on a subconscious level, it's going to happen because our brain doesn't know the difference. So if we really believe, “Oh, I have this condition, it's going to be painful,” we're going to manifest pain because our body believes that we're supposed to have pain with that condition. So I love that you framed it that way, because the truth is, what if we didn't have to have pain?

Jane Hogan  19:35
Exactly, exactly. And pain is actually not where we feel it. Pain originates in the brain, which doesn't mean to say your pain is in your mind. Your pain is real if you're experiencing pain. And I get it. I was there. But our mind runs the body. If we can get in the mind and change things, then it will get a different message. And when people have chronic pain, after a while, they create fear around the pain. And I get that too. I had a lot of that, like, “What's my life going to be like if I can't even walk or if I can't do all these things?” I was very close to not even being able to look after myself. If you can't hold toilet paper in your hand, that's getting pretty bad.

Dr. Jill  20:25
And those are scary things, right? 

Jane Hogan  20:27

Yes. And so then you get fear. I mentioned earlier about the fear around: “I've got to figure this out soon. I can't wait. I gotta do it.” And all that creates a pain-fear cycle and then we're especially wired to pay attention to fear. It's another protection mechanism, right? So when we have fear and pain, our brain really pays attention. It wires those neural networks even deeper, makes deeper grooves, or strengthens those muscles, if you think about it, like muscle memory. It keeps it going. There are a lot of tools we can use to help let the mind relax a little bit or at least feel safe, creating feelings of safety. 

Jane Hogan  21:14

Another thing is that, just because of the way that we are in our society, we've also gotten very disassociated from our bodies so pain is kind of so far down the line of “I need help.” A lot of us just aren't even paying attention to other signals that we get all the time. I really have a chronically tight—I have to work at it—solar plexus. That was tight for a long time. I didn't even really know it. It was so normal for me. Another thing that I teach is helping people get in touch with their bodies and feel the emotions in their bodies. Where do you feel this emotion in your body? Let's enliven that.

Jane Hogan  22:00

And we are energy, right? It's proven by quantum science. Most people aren't taught this—that, really, you're energy. We feel very dense, but we're just compressed energy. So if we are energy, and part of us is not functioning well, then it's a signal that's not getting through—energy not getting through. So I do energy work as well. Not that I'm doing energy transmissions, but I teach people how to energize for themselves. I just really like empowering people with their own tools. So they may still be using other tools as well, but you can do so much within yourself. And no one else can do that but you.

Dr. Jill  22:49
So you really teach your clients to go… I love that because part of my healing too was going outside my analytical engineering brain, which justified everything. And like you said, dissociation from our bodies is actually a very helpful thing in immediate trauma, but it doesn't go well for the long term. So you're saying we need to get back in touch. And I did a lot of that work with my own healing journey of really feeling again and [sensing things] like: “Why am I feeling a little stomach upset? Is that an emotion?” So that somatic-based work sounds so powerful and it's such a huge part of what you do. Talk about Pain-Free by Design. That's kind of your way of looking at this. Tell us more. What does that mean and how do you graph out the different pieces of that blueprint?

Jane Hogan  23:33
At a 30,000-foot view, I believe we are all designers and engineers, if you want to think of it that way. We're all creators. We're here to create—this body, this life, everything. So “by design” is intentional creation. Most of us were not taught intentional. I don't think I had an intentional thought until I was 50. I don't know. I just didn't really think about life in that way. I did some things that way. You know, I planned to get an engineering degree and then I planned a family and that kind of stuff. But I didn't really think about planning my health and my life. 

Jane Hogan  24:25

So “by design”… I was a design engineer, so I love using these fun little analogies for me. So the word design is like the six steps in my process: Desire, explore, surrender—which we mentioned earlier—integrate, generate, and navigate. It's kind of a circular path because we're not going to design and be done, right? We're going to keep going around and then new things come along and we're going to go around that cycle again. So that desire is the first step in, like: What is it you want? How do you want to feel?—because all we do is for feeling ultimately. So how do we want to feel?

Jane Hogan  25:09

When I was doing that visioning of climbing up on that, feeling that victory, playing with a grandchild, I just had joy. Being on a sailboat is so exhilarating. I was really feeling these feelings as I was having these visions and really liked putting them out there: “This is what I desire. This is what I want.” And it comes from the soul desires as opposed to kind of physical world, “I want a car in my driveway” or “a big house.” It's not those things. Those are only really about generating feelings too, so— 

Dr. Jill  25:48
I love that. And I love that you kind of frame that because I agree. I always say finances really just buy freedom, experience, and sharing with others. And if we have those kinds of frames on it where we're creating experience for us and our family, our friends, or we're creating freedom for someone else, that's this altruistic… And those kinds of desires tend to really magnify, and energetically, frequency-wise, they're going to be way up here versus, “I just want a new car.” I totally love that you said that.

Jane Hogan  26:17
Yes, I love that you talked about frequency and energy, because when we talk about energy, energy is frequency with information. Think about radio waves. They have a frequency. When we tune in to the channel, we pick up information that's being broadcast through it. So we're broadcasting as well. And fundamental laws of the universe—what we broadcast out, then we're a match for that to come back to us, right? When we start talking about the law of attraction, some people are like, “Eh, whatever.” But it is based on real physics and the fundamental laws of the universe. So when we put what we want out there, then we're going to get that back.

Dr. Jill  27:07
Yes. So desire. And then keep going through that circle. What's next?

Jane Hogan  27:10
Yes, so the explore [aspect]. Exploring might mean looking back, like: “Where did this come from? How are my behaviors today? How have they been influenced?” Explore the body, like, “Where are you feeling this in the body?” You mentioned [something] like: What does this feeling in my stomach mean? That means something different than a pain in your neck or tight shoulders or your stomach hurting or that kind of thing. So [it's about] exploring these different things, really getting to know yourself. We're so busy in our lives that we don't really get to know ourselves. So there's that step. 

Jane Hogan  27:51

And then the surrender is really surrendering to the intelligence of the body. Surrendering might also mean surrendering to having a rest, to being restful, to giving yourself self-care and time for yourself—those kinds of things. We haven't really been taught about surrendering very well. It's something we have to work at [and] most people have to work at, especially people who are in pain. Very often, I see it over and over again: They're the people who have the to-do lists and want to get them all checked off and they're always doing things for other people, often over-givers [who] can't say no. So there's a lot to do with surrender.

Dr. Jill  28:38
Yes. And then, after surrender?

Jane Hogan  28:39
So [we mentioned the] desire for surrender. Integrate. So start pulling these things in and creating a lifestyle where you are pulling all of this into your life [with] daily routines, morning routines, especially. I believe morning routines can change your life, pulling that in. And I've got a lot of other tools along the way too, with meditations, journaling, breath work, and so on. 

Jane Hogan  29:12

Desire for surrender, integrate, and generate. So now we're at the stage [where] we're really going to generate more energy, more life, more of what we want to do and more of what we want to experience in our lives. And then the navigate stage is like, “Okay, navigating around to what next?” I remember the book Eat, Pray, Love. Is that Elizabeth Gilbert? Another one of her books—I can't remember what it's called now—at the end of it, or somewhere in that book, she talked about [how] once you've come around, all of a sudden you think: Okay, this is great. I've met this desire or these desires that I've set out to achieve. She said, “More wonder, please.” So the next—

Dr. Jill  30:00
I think the book's called something ‘Wonder'. Wonder is in the title, I think. I can't remember. Anyway, I totally love that part. 

Jane Hogan  30:09

“More wonder, please.”

Dr. Jill  30:10

Oh, love, love, love. And I love that you created this circular process because so often I'm guilty of this as well as anyone [else] where I go through and I'm like, “Oh, I recovered.” I remember years ago I would talk about my story because my story from cancer is 20 years ago. So I would teach like, “Oh, I did this and I overcame cancer” and all that. Then I tied it up in this neat bow. It didn't resonate as well with people as when I was real in the fact that “Now I'm going through this next thing.” And it doesn't have to be messy, but the reality is we're all either having just gone through a traumatic or crazy experience with our health, our family, or our finances. Or we're in it or it's coming up. Those are the only three options in this life—that we're continually experiencing things that shake it up and that aren't exactly what we expected. So I really, really love it. I love your framework because, granted, it's perfect for chronic pain, but your framework could apply to pretty much any illness or any life experience. I love [how] it's such a universal way to think about things.

Jane Hogan  31:09
It really is. And I love what you mentioned there—that we're here to learn and grow, I believe. So, of course, the perfect things that we need to learn and grow will be put in front of us. Then we go through these cycles. And sometimes I think about it like seasons too. There's the winter, which is when things aren't going so well, maybe. Although I do love winter. And then the spring, “Oh, it's all going so well.” Then there's the fall or summer, where things are growing and then the fall comes and it all breaks down. But it's beautiful and natural.

Dr. Jill  31:48
Yes. And if you can, just, like you said, even surrender. I love that word, especially. Say you're in a car accident or something awful where you brace and tighten your body. You get hurt a lot worse than if you happen to be sleeping in the back seat or, God forbid, you've been drinking. Often, the people who have that are not bracing because they're not even aware and they don't get hurt as bad. I'm not condoning that at all. I'm just saying that in those kinds of situations, it really does make a difference if we're bracing, resisting, or surrendering. Even with emotions, say some sadness comes in. Before, I was like, “Oh, no sadness, no anger.” And I would brace and resist. It was way more painful than now. I let the wave come in and I'm like, “Oh, the sadness. Welcome, hello.” I don't really want this to stay, but I let it flow through. And then, all of a sudden, it's way easier to deal with emotions and things when we surrender.

Jane Hogan  32:47
The surrender is so interesting because, as I said, we haven't really been taught about… Like even [with] surrender, there are so many layers of meaning on it as well. So it can also mean surrendering to your inner wisdom. We talked about that inner knowing. Surrender to that inner knowing; I already have all the answers. That was one thing I really loved when I went into functional medicine coaching because I came from an engineering background and everyone else in my class was already in health. And I was like, “Oh, no.” And then Dr. Sandeep taught us [that] you don't have to know all the answers.

Dr. Jill  33:27
It's actually embracing uncertainty, right? Even in medicine, the same thing; we're kind of taught, very similar to engineering, that there is black and white, there's right and wrong and there are answers and protocols. And I remember first facing cancer and realizing: “Holy cow, there is no black and white for my treatment. I have to get a plan with my doctor, but there is no right or wrong.” And those who really like the black-and-white thinking want there to be a right answer. But when we embrace the fact that it is uncertain, we will still have answers, but it's not always going to be black and white. Most times it's going to be shades of gray. It makes it easier because then we don't have to find the right answer, right? 

Jane Hogan  34:06
Exactly. And also that each person has that wisdom within them when they can trust themselves. So another tool that I do is teach people how to tune into: Am I leaning towards or am I leaning away from something? How do you trust? Even [for] simple things like, is this supplement one I should be taking? Ask your higher self, your inner self, whatever you want to call it. I believe we all have this knowing that does have the answers and does know what's best for us. So I like tuning into that as well. And that's a surrender as well to really pay attention to that.

Dr. Jill  34:47
It is. And I love that you're coaching people. Often, a patient will come in and say, “I don't really know why, but I stopped this two weeks ago.” And I really trust that. I'll use my analytical brain to make sure that it's safe and whatever kind of thing there. But I often support their sense of, “Oh, I don't think I need this anymore,” because usually they know and I want to encourage them to be empowered, just like you said. 

Dr. Jill  35:08

So in our last few minutes, I want to talk about your morning routine because you mentioned that and I think that's powerful. And I think people enjoy hearing: What do you do? And they might get some ideas. So let's talk about your routine. And then let's end with a couple of minutes of a practice that you could guide one of your clients through so that people could actually experience that. So first morning routine. Tell us about your morning routine.

Jane Hogan  35:30
I love my mornings and I feel very fortunate that I set my own schedule now so I can extend my morning routine if I want to. I usually wake up and have a glass of water to flush the brain because the lymphatic system has been working all night. A glass of water, a meditation, and yoga. Then I write. I'm working on my book. So then I write for an hour. And then, three days a week, my husband and I go for a run. If I run, I will have a shower, and I turn my shower to cold. I also live across from a river. So some days I will dip in the river all year round. I love the cold therapy. It's not that everyone has to do this. I mean, I don't love it when I'm doing it but I love it afterwards. Every part of me is saying no.

Dr. Jill  36:26
But the science is really good. For those listening, I agree with you that the cold plunge is [backed by] powerful science. We could have a whole episode on that one.

Jane Hogan  36:35
Oh yes. I love it. I'd love to talk about it if you want to talk about it. And then this time of year, if it's summertime, I like to get outside more. But this time of year, where I live in Newfoundland, it's dark in the morning so it doesn't get light till later. So I've got some red lights. I like to sit in front of the red lights. I love to stack a bunch of things together. While I'm under the lights, I will do lymphatic drainage. I also like to either listen to some affirmations, a mantra, a guided thing, or whatever. Or sometimes it's a podcast. But I try to listen to something as well. So that's kind of like what I like to do each morning.

Jane Hogan  37:20

And then I come to my desk and I love to get my journal out and write down everything that's happening that day. And I find then that I feel really good for the day and I tend to not miss things because there's nothing worse than missing. We talked about the [inaudible]. I'm like, “I just missed it. Oh, no!” But when I stick to that routine, my day goes so much more smoothly. And I love coming into my little office space here. I forgot to mention journaling. I do journaling as well. But when I come into my office, I say: “This is a sacred space. The work that I'm doing is sacred.” I like to pull an oracle card or a picture of my parents on my desk here. I turn on my light and just feel like this is sacred and I let my work be guided. So that's kind of how I love to start my day.

Dr. Jill  38:12
Oh wow, I love it. There are so many pearls there. One little thing you mentioned that I think is so powerful is that I just heard a podcast on flow and rumination. And what happens is that often, if we are ruminating on, “Oh, what should I make for dinner?” or all these little things that don't really have a lot of consequence in our lives and our greater work, we can offload those by writing them down in the morning. We offload the brain [through] journaling ideas, thoughts, plans, or just a to-do list. And we kind of offload that so that our default mode network doesn't have to ruminate or chew on that. Instead, we can ruminate on: How are we going to change the world? How am I going to do that next chapter? Like, the bigger things that really matter. So you kind of mentioned that. 

Dr. Jill  38:53

And because I've just been reading about that, I thought I would mention [how] our default mode network chews on things when we shower, when we garden, or when we play basketball. When we do these other things that are a little bit mindless, that's where our great ideas usually come in—those times when we're doing something but not super intently thinking. And we can use our default mode network to solve problems if we've offloaded all that. Did we get the groceries? What are we having for dinner? Did I talk to my husband on time to pick up the kids? All those other things. And we can do that in the morning. And who's the author who did the famous book on a child, I think? She talked about morning pages, where we just write for three minutes. And you're kind of describing that. And I think that's powerful. 

Dr. Jill  39:37

Okay, so the last just a couple of minutes here. Take us through a little process of how you might teach your clients to really tap in or whatever thing you want to do with us. Let's actually show and tell and experience a little meditation.

Jane Hogan  39:52
Well, one I really love, Jill, is really focusing on the heart. We talked about disassociation. But a lot of people can feel the heart because we have strong emotions there, right? With love, we can feel that. We can feel grief, like when we've lost someone. We can really feel that. So tapping into that is a great beginning point to start tapping into the rest of the body. Also, it's the most powerful frequency. They can actually measure the electromagnetic waves from the heart, like 10 to 12 feet away outside the person. So I love this because if we can create this in ourselves, then we're also having a ripple effect with people that are around us. We can tell when we [inaudible]. And there's a lot of science done behind this, backing this up from the HeartMath Institute, which I'm sure you know about. 

Jane Hogan  40:55

So let's do this together. So just invite everyone. We'll just do a really short three minutes or so. So wherever you are now, as long as you're not driving, just close down your eyes. Maybe you even want to put your hands on your heart. Just begin to breathe long breaths in, ideally in and out through the nose. But if that's not comfortable for you, then that's okay. Just breathe in. Try to lengthen out the breaths and exhale slowly. In and out. Now imagine that as you're breathing in, you're breathing into your heart. So breathing into the heart. Feeling it swell there and then exhaling. Into the heart again, swirling around the heart. And exhaling. 

Jane Hogan  42:13

And while you continue to breathe in and out through your heart, I'd like for you to think about the time when you felt—it could be love, it could be gratitude, it could be joy. And maybe for this feeling, you might think about a person, a pet, or a place. Whatever it is, bring it to your mind now. Notice the colors you see. Look around [to see] what's around you. Notice if you hear anything. Do you feel anything? If you feel anything, where do you feel it? Think again about this feeling, whatever it is that you're feeling. And now notice that you can feel that feeling in your heart. So instead of thinking with your mind, now feel with your heart. 

Jane Hogan  43:55

Now, every time you breathe, imagine that that feeling is getting bigger. It's filling up your heart space. It's filling up your chest. It's filling up your whole body. Now it's even bigger than your body. Let this feeling get as big as it can get, maybe even filling the room that you're in. Just feel how good that feels. Now call all this feeling back into your heart. Pull it all back into your heart. Know that it's always there for you, whenever you want to feel it. You can let it stay in your heart. You can let it get as big as you want, but it's always there for you. Always in your heart. Take one last inhale. And exhale with a sigh. Then, when you're ready, you can slowly and gently open your eyes.

Dr. Jill  45:37
Ah, so lovely, Jane. Thank you so much for taking us through that. And I'm sure if you're listening and you're still with us, you feel the same wonderful calm. And for me, there's just lots of love and appreciation—appreciation for the work that you're doing in the world. And it's so funny that we can appreciate the suffering, but I appreciate that too. Not that you had to go through it, but that you transformed it into something that could help so many people. I cannot wait for your book to get out. Where can people find you if they want to know more? And you mentioned a webinar coming up when this is airing, so tell us more about those things.

Jane Hogan  46:14
Well, my website is TheWellnessEngineer.com. And on YouTube, Instagram, and Facebook, I'm  at Jane Hogan Health. Someone else had already taken The Wellness Engineer. So I'm at Jane Hogan Health. But the webinar I got coming up is called Ancient Secrets for Living Pain-Free. I'm going to be teaching about some of this stuff that I've learned, diving into it a little bit more. And I really love teaching this stuff. So it's happening on Wednesday, December 6th, at 6 o'clock p.m. Eastern Time. And if anyone wants to register, it's totally free. It's at TheWellnessEngineer.com/webinarTWE. The Wellness Engineer. So we'll share that link so people can sign up. And I'd love to see you there. 

Dr. Jill  47:08
Yes. And wherever you're listening to this, if you look below on the show notes, you will find the links that she just mentioned. So if you're driving or somewhere, don't worry. You can get all the information. So, The Wellness Engineer. And we will include all those links. Jane, thank you truly for all that you've taken to transform your life and share it with others. It's powerful and so helpful.

Jane Hogan  47:30
Oh, thank you, Jill. I just really appreciate this opportunity to fulfill my mission. That's what I was told to do. So I appreciate you, the work that you're doing, and being such a bright light in the world!

Dr. Jill  47:43

Thank you so much!