In Episode #58, Dr. Jill Interviews Dr. Lyn Patrick about the increase in toxic heavy metals in our environment, and related impact on the immune system. Arsenic toxicity is a big issues and should be measured in the urine. Detox support for mold and heavy metals may include the Miracle Mold Detox Box https://molddetoxbox.com.
Key Points:
1) Toxic heavy metal levels are increasing in our environment
2) Arsenic toxicity is a big issues and should be measured in the urine
3) Detox support for mold and heavy metals may include the Miracle Mold Detox Box https://molddetoxbox.com
Dr. Jill
Dr. Jill Carnahan is Your Functional Medicine Expert® dually board certified in Family Medicine for ten years and in Integrative Holistic Medicine since 2015. She is the Medical Director of Flatiron Functional Medicine, a widely sought-after practice with a broad range of clinical services including functional medical protocols, nutritional consultations, chiropractic therapy, naturopathic medicine, acupuncture, and massage therapy. As a survivor of breast cancer, Crohn’s disease, and toxic mold illness she brings a unique perspective to treating patients in the midst of complex and chronic illness. Her clinic specializes in searching for the underlying triggers that contribute to illness through cutting-edge lab testing and tailoring the intervention to specific needs.
Featured in Shape Magazine, Parade, Forbes, MindBodyGreen, First for Women, Townsend Newsletter, and The Huffington Post as well as seen on NBC News and Health segments with Joan Lunden, Dr. Jill is a media must-have. Her YouTube channel and podcast features live interviews with the healthcare world’s most respected names.
A popular inspirational speaker and prolific writer, she shares her knowledge of hope, health, and healing live on stage and through newsletters, articles, books, and social media posts! People relate to Dr. Jill’s science-backed opinions delivered with authenticity, love and humor. She is known for inspiring her audience to thrive even in the midst of difficulties.
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The Transcript
#58: Dr Jill Interviews Dr Lyn Patrick on Toxic Metals and the Immune System
Dr. Jill 00:11
Hey everybody! Thank you for joining us this afternoon. I am so excited today. Gosh, Dr. Patrick and I have busy schedules, but she's someone that I just always like to make time for. [She's] a colleague, a friend. We've been working together in these many fields of functional medicine and environmental toxicity for many, many years. And I just have such great respect for the level of science and quality of information that she brings to our field.
Dr. Jill 00:36
We're going to talk about heavy metals, toxicants, and all kinds of toxins in relation to the immune system because that's such a relevant topic for our last year and in general. I think you'll really, really enjoy the content. I want to be sure to also mention that we have a conference coming up, the Environmental Health Symposium. I think that's the second weekend in April. Is that right, Lyn?
Dr. Lyn Patrick 00:58
That's correct—the 15th through the 17th. Dr. Jill and I will be moderating. And Dr. Jill is going to be speaking. Not only speaking, I think this is the first time that we've had you on the Environmental Health Symposium, where you're just free. I mean, it's your brain for free. People get all the wisdom, knowledge, clinical experience, and guidance that you have. It's just going to be an open Q&A. You're just going to be answering any questions relating to immunity, metal exposure, toxicant exposure, and co-infections. So I think that's going to be one of the highlights of EHS.
Dr. Lyn Patrick 01:37
Honestly, I'm really glad it worked out that way. I think that we need more of that. We need more “Just tell us where you're stuck, healthcare providers, and we will give you some guidance.” So I'm really looking forward to it. As well, we have some surprise… I don't want to call it a surprise guest because it's a conference. They're speakers. But I found this gentleman. He's a pediatrician in Hong Kong, Dr. Paul Lam, who has been treating… Are you ready for this? He's been treating pregnant women, detoxing them for metal toxicity. He's been treating infants and children who have really serious clinical conditions and reversing them by identifying and eliminating the metals in their bodies. He's been doing this for many years. I've known Dr. Paul. I think I met him in 2012. And he's just the kindest and wisest gentleman and a really humane physician. So he's going to really guide us through some cases that, I think, will help us all. He also treats adults with metal toxicity. So I think that'll be great.
Dr. Lyn Patrick 02:52
We have Dr. Larry Palevsky. I don't know if you know Dr. Larry, but he's one of my best buddies. He's a pediatrician in New York. Dr. Palevsky has been identifying and addressing immune-related problems in children for his entire career as a pediatrician. He's also going to give a very factual medical literature-based talk on vaccines that I've heard before. But this is an update that is mind-blowing because we're really going to get to look into the science behind vaccination. So I think that'll be wonderful.
Dr. Lyn Patrick 03:30
Dr. Anne Marie Fine and I are going to do a day-long introduction to environmental medicine from a brand-new perspective. Jill, we've never taught this way. So here's what we've done. You know how we're always just like factoids, factoids, factoids? Just drinking out of a fire hose. It doesn't work that great.
Dr. Jill 03:50
Yes, we like it sometimes. But yes, it's just not so practical.
Dr. Lyn Patrick 03:53
I know. So here's what we've done: We flipped everything and said, “So what if this patient walks into your office—and here is the neuroinflammation that they present with, the neurotoxicity, the autoimmune disease, the cardiovascular disease, the obesity, the diabetes, or the infertility—how do you address toxic exposure from that perspective? What are the most likely toxicants? What are the most likely metals, solvents, pesticides, and phthalates? And how can you judiciously address this? And then, what are the treatment interventions? We'll see. But I'm hoping that that'll be just easier to learn, it'll stick better, and that everybody can become aware of the exposures that are related to these conditions. So I think that's going to be fun. That's going to be really fun. More stories. More patient stories, because that's how people learn, right? So speaking of, do you want a patient story?
Dr. Jill 04:54
Yes.
Dr. Lyn Patrick 04:54
Okay. Many years ago, I had a nurse come in who had peripheral neuropathy. That's numbness and tingling in the hands and feet—stocking glove [neuropathy]. It was constant for her—this constant numbness, tingling, and pain in her hands and her feet. Interestingly, unfortunately for her, she worked in a law firm that did what? Environmental toxicant medicine. She had gone to her neurologist and she had said, “I don't know. Do you think this could be related to arsenic?—because I've heard in my work at the law firm that arsenic toxicity can cause this.” And the neurologist said, “Probably not, but I'll test if you want to.” So he looked in her blood—which is the wrong place—for arsenic. He didn't find any and he said: “Absolutely not. You don't have any arsenic toxicity.”
Dr. Lyn Patrick 05:49
So somehow, she found her way to me. And I said, “Well, let's look in the right place, which is in the urine.” And sure enough, she was loaded. She had a fascinating story. She was working as a nurse, but when she went home, she was helping her husband build a deck out in the back. And they were using what is called CCA—that's the name of the treatment—wood, which is outdoor wood. It's treated wood. And the way that they treat it is that they soak the wood in copper, chromate—not chromium(III) but chromium(VI), which is toxic—and arsenic. And that's why it's so heavy, right? So she was working all summer helping her husband build the deck. It was raining. And she was not so great at wearing gloves. So she was absorbing this arsenic from the wood from her hands into her body. And we know that's possible.
Dr. Lyn Patrick 06:48
There are a lot of playgrounds across the United States that are built out of this CCA wood that are a danger to children because when it gets wet, not when it's dry, you can actually absorb some of that arsenic into the palms of your hands through the wood. Not only that, but she had arsenic in her water supply. She had a well, which is the greatest risk for arsenic. And her neurologist, of course, just wasn't oriented that way. That wasn't his orientation to ask her if she had checked her water for arsenic or if she had any exposure. She knew that the CCA was exposure, but he had convinced her. So anyway, what we did for this dear woman was test her water. She just hadn't done it. She had pretty high levels of arsenic.
Dr. Lyn Patrick 07:42
And for 108 million people in the United States of America, their arsenic levels are over the allowable legal limit for arsenic in drinking water. That's a lot of people. And we have a really serious problem. Our infrastructure isn't that great in terms of getting arsenic out of the drinking water supply. And regulatory agencies are not that good at actually punishing or fining municipalities that can't regulate their arsenic levels. So this is a multi-stage issue and a multi-layer process.
Dr. Lyn Patrick 08:20
So at any rate, she was able to get just a good old reverse osmosis water filter. I'll talk about that later. That got the arsenic out of her water. We gave her some methylated B vitamins, selenium, and SAMe. I think she ended up taking SAMe. All those things are really good to help the body process and eliminate arsenic. And [she took] methylated B12. That was the other thing. And her peripheral neuropathy resolved. It took a while. It took a couple of months because, as you know, that's damage to the nerves and the nerves have to heal. So it's not like taking ibuprofen for a headache. The nerves really have to heal.
Dr. Lyn Patrick 09:08
But I've been thinking about this quite a bit because I just did a podcast on arsenic and how huge a problem it is. It's the number one toxic metal in the United States, as per the Centers for Disease Control. The Centers for Disease Control have a list of 200 toxicants, all of them based on how likely you are to get exposed to them and how sick you may get. They have a formula where they put those two variables together. And arsenic comes up [at] number one. And the World Health Organization has actually rated it right up near the top.
Dr. Lyn Patrick 09:49
The good news is that this is something we can do something about. It's coming from somewhere. It's either coming from our drinking water or it's coming from our vegetables—which is the highest source of inorganic arsenic; that's the poisonous kind—in our environment. Why? What do you think? Multiple-choice question. The reason vegetables are the number-one source of arsenic is because of pesticide exposure. Number two—listen to number two: Biosludge application to conventionally grow—
Dr. Jill 10:28
That's what I was wondering. The old term for that was manure—in the farm.
Dr. Lyn Patrick 10:33
Well, now, guess what? They don't use manure. They use something that's legally called biosolids. Do you remember the Clean Air Act and the Clean Water Act back in the '70s? Way back in the '70s, corporations that produced things that they no longer could burn into the air or throw into the water thought: “Well, what's left? The soil.” So they enacted all this legislation to allow the application of what are called biosolids to agricultural soil. They throw a little zinc, a little phosphorus—you're a farm girl, you know all this stuff—pot ash in there and sell it as fertilizer. Unfortunately, there are no good regulations that prohibit high levels of arsenic, cadmium, and lead—those are the three biggies—in those biosolids. So the plants will take them up and they end up in the plants.
Dr. Lyn Patrick 11:31
This is just one great big commercial for doing what? Eating organic food, because you can't use legally used biosolids in organic agriculture. So when people say, “Oh man, I just don't have the money to eat organically,” I'm like: “Well, this is not a good thought but have you thought about how much it costs to have cancer? Have you really thought about the cost of having cancer?” And nobody thinks about those things. Cancer is extremely expensive. Having an autoimmune disease is extremely expensive.
Dr. Jill 12:06
Even the detox protocol that you took her through for three to four months is extremely—
Dr. Lyn Patrick 12:11
Right, Exactly. But she was willing and ready and absolutely 100%—
Dr. Jill 12:18
What a great thing that she had enough exposure to her law firm to know the questions to ask. And I just encourage you listening—if you're a practitioner, you probably are in the functional or in the greater realm—if you're a patient, don't take these answers if you feel like there's something more. Keep searching because often there are underlying root causes. And again, I come from conventional training and we're not taught to really dig deep and look for things like arsenic. So this is rare.
Dr. Jill 12:46
And now you know why I love Dr. Lyn Patrick so much. She's so knowledgeable on these things. And I always learn more when I'm talking to her. You guys are going to love the conference. We're going to have this and so much more. The main topic is on toxicants, toxins, heavy metals, etc. So we'll talk a little bit more about those. And I love the speakers that you bring as well. I want to highlight that. If you guys want, anywhere you watch this video, you'll see a link below to look at the speakers and the schedule. You can sign up anytime. It's online so you can be in your home in your pajamas and watch it. Tell me the days; is it on Friday and Saturday?
Dr. Lyn Patrick 13:25
Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. Yes. And your friend and mine, Dr. Neil Nathan, is going to be there talking about the cell danger response, mold, and metals, which is something that, as clinicians who look at exposures, we're taught to look at one at a time. We can barely wrap our heads around just one toxin. But the reality is, and you know this, that all of our sick patients are usually exposed to multiple things—not just infections like Lyme and co-infections or mold exposure—[such as] metals and solvents, pesticides and phthalates, and the whole ball of wax. So looking at that whole ball of wax is really an art, and I think Dr. Nathan is very skilled in being able to do that.
Dr. Jill 14:17
I do, too. And if you haven't heard about cell danger response, stay tuned. Come to the conference. I think this is one of the most monumental… It's Dr. Naviaux's work. And this is basically one of the underlying mechanisms that explain so much of our chronic infection and toxic load. Sometimes I'll do the overview lectures. But I always just think really simply with this toxic load and infectious burden. I would say nearly 100% of my patients with chronic illness have some weighted balance of those two. My job as a clinician is to figure out what's in their bucket, what's in the infectious load, and what's in the toxic burden. But the best thing—and I'd love your comments on this, Lyn—is if we think about that bucket and patients.
Dr. Jill 14:57
Just like your patient with arsenic, her toxic load was increasing and the immune system was decreasing because of that. Maybe infections were involved too. But the main thing for her was that overload of arsenic. But we don't always have to know every single last toxin in the bucket, because a lot of times these generalized principles… There are different mechanisms for removing lead versus, say, another type of toxin like Chaetomium, or mold. However, [with] detox in general, there's a lot of commonalities. Then, when we go into naturopathy, infrared sauna, hydrotherapy and Epsom salt baths, these things are universal. The great thing is we can take 80% of our detox and it applies to the whole toxic load. Any comments on that? Because I think clinicians, if you're listening, patient or clinician, toxicants, toxicity, and environmental toxic load could be overwhelming and very pessimistic. But I feel like it's not that way.
Dr. Lyn Patrick 15:48
Well, the good news is… I want to use a specific example. You are very familiar with the study that Dr. Steven Genoist did. He looked at a very small sample of patients who were sick and then some were not sick and he put them in a sauna. Then he actually looked at what came out in their urine and what came out in their sweat and he looked at what was in their blood. What he found was that the ability to sweat… It doesn't have to be fancy. Dr. Jill, I have helped so many people get better. If they didn't have access to a sauna or couldn't afford to buy a sauna, I had them go in their bathroom with a little space heater, shut the door, put a towel under the door, and literally sit in their bathroom for an hour and sweat. And they got better. So it's kind of a universal technology.
Dr. Lyn Patrick 16:46
And I think this speaks to your point: In those folks who were able to sweat, what he found in their urine and their sweat was increased levels of metals like cadmium. [It's] very hard to get cadmium out of the body. [It's] a very common toxicant because it's in those biosolids. It ends up in our food as well as in cigarette smoke. But he also found that bisphenols, which are a common plasticizer in our drinking water—they can be in our polycarbonate bottles, they're in the canned food, they're in our cosmetics—levels were also really strongly elevated, as well as aluminum. We can sweat out aluminum, right?
Dr. Jill 17:31
Oh, and aluminum—that's a huge problem. I was consulting with some doctors in India and their patients, and in 100% of the cases—I don't know if it's because of their cookware—I was finding such high levels of aluminum.
Dr. Lyn Patrick 17:44
Where is it coming from?
Dr. Jill 17:47
Well, I suspect that their cookware might be an issue. I don't know for sure, but that was my biggest suspicion because they all had common types of cookware. And again, I don't know that I for sure know the sources, but it was so common. And I think in the US as well. In fact, when I do a heavy metal panel in Labcorp, Quest, or whatever lab, aluminum is not typically included in there. And I will actually add that now. Is serum or whole blood the best way [to test] for aluminum? Or would you test it a different way? What would you do?
Dr. Lyn Patrick 18:17
I have been so conflicted about this that I invited one of the global aluminum experts, [inaudible]. So Chris Shaw is coming. Christopher Shaw from the University of British Columbia to talk about his research. He's a neuroscientist, and he's done quite a bit of research on aluminum. But this is a big problem because we don't have good tests for aluminum. We just don't. So I wish I could give you an answer, but I don't think there is one.
Dr. Jill 18:48
That's how I feel, too. I'm like, I'm not sure which way to go for now. I'm doing the blood sample but—
Dr. Lyn Patrick 18:52
Hopefully, after EHS, you and I will be updated on what really is the best test. But to get back to sauna… So a sauna is also a really good way to eliminate some pesticides. We can actually get organochlorine pesticides. Those are the legacy ones that are in our fat. And 99% of us have DDT metabolites in our fat. It's just that it's our diet. We probably inherited some from our mom.
Dr. Jill 19:20
And the half-life is so long that we can't really—
Dr. Lyn Patrick 19:24
The half-life—that's a hundred years to get it out of your body. So we have to help [with] that process. Just by itself, we're not going to do it. So that's one of, I think, the beauties of using those potentially low-cost technologies. Of course, not everybody can handle a sauna. Folks who are really environmentally ill or who have POTS—postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome; that's where you get dizzy, and when you lay down, your heart rate goes up—have difficulty and need to be very slowly accustomed to sweating.
Dr. Jill 20:02
Like you said, a space heater in the bathroom—I have recommended that too. And even on the other spectrum, a couple of companies make sauna blankets—the little cubicles that you sit inside—and then, of course, the full-blown ones. But those can range from well under $1,000, which is still a cost, but they're much more affordable now. And a space heater in the bathroom is still a good option.
Dr. Lyn Patrick 20:24
You know, it's just sweating. It doesn't matter how you do it. A lot of the doctors that I train ask me, “Well, isn't far infrared really the only way to sauna?” It's not. In that study that I was just mentioning, Dr. Genoist actually compared an infrared sauna to a radiant heat sauna. He found that the level of excretion in the sweat was equivalent. The level of excretion in the urine was equivalent. So it doesn't matter.
Dr. Jill 20:51
With some of the new infrared near and far, I'm suspecting there might be some healing properties, like maybe increased collagen production with the near-infrared. But if you're just focusing on detox, which is the majority of our patients, then, like you said, just getting them to sweat. What about people who don't sweat? What would you say about them? To me, that's a big issue.
Dr. Lyn Patrick 21:11
What I learned from my mentor, Dr. William Ray, who was a cardiothoracic surgeon who practiced environmental medicine for forty years, is that those people have dysautonomia. They have an imbalance between their nervous systems—the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems—that prevents sweating. So the treatment protocol for dysautonomia… And by the way, those folks are also environmentally exposed. That's how they got that problem in the first place. It can be treated and addressed.
Dr. Lyn Patrick 21:44
And, of course, let's just take an example: If somebody is in a moldy home, it doesn't matter how much you put them in the sauna. Until you get them out of the moldy home, they're not going to sweat in the sauna. So you have to remove them from all the toxins they're exposed to. But once you do that, [I recommend] very short periods in the sauna. Five minutes is useful. Then they can work up to 10. I had a patient [where] it took him a year to be able to tolerate an hour of sauna. But the man got better. And he was very, very ill. So that's the standard protocol for folks who don't have the ability to sweat.
Dr. Jill 22:18
Yes. I'll have them turn on the sauna, get in at 100 degrees, and stay for three minutes. Actually, I'm sorry, I set it to maybe 130, but get in at 100 so that it's just slowly rising in temperature. By the time they're at three minutes, it might be 105. And then the next time, they go to five minutes. So what happens is that, over maybe 10 to 15 minutes, they start to get to the top temperature of 130. Then, as they start to get there, they can go up to 30 minutes. Once they get to 130 for 30 minutes, they can go a little hotter.
Dr. Jill 22:47
I usually have them no more than two or three times a week at that very low temperature. And if they have that evening or the next day, sequelae where they don't feel well and they've overdone it, they take a break. They go back to lower doses. I always give tri-salts or electrolytes with the sauna. I often give binders after. I like to use clay, charcoal, or zeolites for metals. [Do you have] any comments on those little protocols or tips for sauna?
Dr. Lyn Patrick 23:12
Absolutely yes to everything. I think electrolyte replacement is absolutely necessary. In our clinic—I'm no longer there—we have an environmental sauna. So we control the temperature. And we do really keep it under 130. In gyms, sometimes those saunas are way too hot.
Dr. Jill 23:31
Oh, they're terribly hot. And people go in there for 45 minutes and I'm like, “That's a stressor on the body.” I think of it as a cortisol response. If you get too high, you're actually making the stress response worse. You're making that sympathetic overdrive worse. So I agree. As long as you're sweating… And you can do that at 130 very easily.
Dr. Lyn Patrick 23:49
Right. Actually, what I learned in my environmental medicine training was that there are two types of sweat glands. One is specific for ammonia and water and the other is specific for releasing some of the lipophilic toxins. The higher the temperature, the less active those important fat-releasing sweat glands are. They actually get turned off at high temperatures and you're just releasing water and ammonia.
Dr. Jill 24:17
Which is worse because then you're going to be dehydrated. So that makes a ton of sense, Lyn. I've never heard it explained like that.
Dr. Lyn Patrick 24:23
So a low-temperature sauna is a medical sauna. We rarely ever go over 130.
Dr. Jill 24:25
So let's talk a little in our last five or ten minutes or so about the conferences on the immune system. That's been the hot topic, of course, with our pandemic and everything. People are worried about the immune system. For decades, you and I have been talking about the immune system. This is nothing new. Let's talk a little bit about the basics of how toxicants, toxins, and heavy metals affect the immune system. Do you want to give us just a little, tiny overview on that?
Dr. Lyn Patrick 24:51
Sure. I think it is probably helpful to go back to arsenic because arsenic is something that, as we now know, 108 million people are drinking from their tap water. And while we're on that subject, a simple reverse osmosis filter will get the arsenic out of your tap water. Charcoal is not as reliable, but reverse osmosis is very reliable. So arsenic is a specific immune-suppressing metal. Those effects have been known for decades. One of the things I think is interesting is that arsenic decreases macrophage function. So we know that macrophages are like the garbage men and women of the immune system. They go in and they will literally take the garbage out. They'll surround the garbage and remove it either through the lymphatic system or sometimes back into the blood. So one of the things I've learned is that in COVID, macrophage function is very important.
Dr. Jill 25:54
We forget that T cell-mediated immunity, right? People are talking about B cells. No, no, no. Actually, T cells are more important.
Dr. Lyn Patrick 26:04
And arsenic also suppresses these cells, called natural killer cells. So natural killer cell function is very important in actually attacking viruses directly. We need robust natural killer cell function. And again, when we're looking at viruses and cancer cells, by the way, innate immunity is the key. That's what we need. So I think we can say the same thing about mercury. It has a suppressing effect on natural killer cell function. So does lead. And all these things are in cigarettes. It's not that I would ever smoke a cigarette anyway, but now that I know what I know about what's inside of cigarettes, I can't. Somebody would have to put me in handcuffs to get me to smoke a cigarette.
Dr. Jill 26:53
Well, let's talk real briefly because a lot of kids are vaping now or adults. But it's the same thing, right? You're not losing the risk.
Dr. Lyn Patrick 26:59
[There are] higher levels of metals in vaping than in regular smoking. There's nothing safe about vaping—nothing. It's more addictive than smoking cigarettes. Yes, absolutely.
Dr. Lyn Patrick 27:15
Back to immune function. I think that we are at this place with COVID where there's a fork in the road and we've got to go one way or the other. We can't hang out at the junction anymore. We have to make choices about how we live, how we spend our money, and how we take care of our bodies that go down that left-hand or right-hand side, whichever one it is, to robust innate immunity because we don't have any choice anymore.
Dr. Lyn Patrick 27:50
And I don't want to talk about the vaccine because it's so political. But one thing I will say is that I heard a vaccine developer lately. You may have heard him talk. He said one of the potential risks with the vaccine is that it may allow for more variants. So those variants will affect those of us who may have chosen not to be vaccinated. So it's everybody now. It's all of us. We all have to make very conscious choices about innate immunity. Avoiding metals and improving metal excretion is, in my book, one of those choices. We actually have to choose that.
Dr. Jill 28:31
I think, Lyn, if we had to have a takeaway of what to do in this era and everything, we must start choosing to do daily detoxification things. I've always told people 21-day detox, 30-day, January 1st… That's great. No problem. But if you are not choosing… I practice what I preach. I know you do as well. I choose every single day to do things like [use the] sauna, [use] charcoal or clay, eat clean, all organic, or drink purified water. And you've heard me say clean air, clean water, and clean food. Some of these things do not have to be incredibly expensive or difficult. It's very simple because what we put in our body protects us from accumulating that load. The types of food that we eat, the type of water we drink, the air quality, using air filtration systems, Epsom salt baths, infrared sauna, and a space heater in your bathroom—for these things, you have to make a choice every day.
Dr. Jill 29:25
And you do have to choose. Unfortunately, in this century, we must choose to put some of that in because if we don't, the load is so great that we're all going to be overcome in some way by it. And I don't mean to be fatalistic, but I've realized—I'm sure you've seen this too—that 10, 15 years ago, when I started seeing functional medicine practice patients, it was a thyroid disorder and three months later they were well. I never see that anymore. The complexity level is 10 to 100 times greater than it was even in one or two decades. I believe that the hidden elephant in the room, which was one of the titles of our conference, is the toxic load.
Dr. Lyn Patrick 30:03
And I just heard, just for everybody, Shanna Swan, who is one of our renowned… She started looking at this long before anybody else even cared or knew back in the 70s. She has just written a book. And I'm so sorry that I don't have the title of it.
Dr. Jill 30:19
At the end, we'll add it.
Dr. Lyn Patrick 30:23
One of the things she says, and this just came out in an article, I think in the New York Times, is that her estimation based on the literature is that by 2045, the male sperm count in the world globally will be zero.
Dr. Jill 30:37
Wow. Is it called Count Down? I think I found it. By Shanna Swan, PhD.
Dr. Lyn Patrick 30:44
Yes. She is one of our renowned, really beloved, and very well-respected researchers in the field of endocrine disruption. She was the one who found that pre-exposure to phthalates in the womb, prenatal exposure to phthalates, altered the anal genital distance in boys, which meant that the actual distance between the genitals of an infant boy and the anus was changing. And that is a bad thing to happen. There are a lot of reasons why it's bad, but it is a bad thing to have happened. So for the last almost 30 years, she has been on the bandwagon about this and continues to publish. And she's just wonderful. But that's the reality.
Dr. Lyn Patrick 31:26
And the thing, Jill, that you and I both say is [that] knowledge is power. So we can take this knowledge and implement things in our lives that we can incorporate into our daily routine. I do a sauna. I try [to use the] sauna every day. I don't have to do it for an hour. I just do it for 15 minutes. That's okay. I feel so much better and I sleep so much better.
Dr. Jill 31:49
Yes, the same thing. I just pick and choose. And there's no obligation, but it's part of what I value, which is my health. I just really believe we have to teach our patients to choose to value, maybe taking 20 minutes a day to some practice. Again, I use an Epsom salt bath every single night that I can. It's just so powerful. It's so simple. So cheap and easy. And then, like you, I sleep better. So there are these things you can incorporate.
Dr. Jill 32:17
Obviously, wherever you see this video, you'll see links to the conference and more information. As you can see, what I love [about] Dr. Patrick is that she really brings some of the best and brightest brains and researchers. She's always looking for: “Who is the expert?” And then, “Let's get them to the conference. Let's get them to speak.” And I don't know of any other higher-quality organization as far as the types of people that you're going to see. And sometimes the level of knowledge is pretty amazing. But also at this conference, we're going to have some really practical ways. Like you heard, I'm going to do a live Q&A. I've never done that before at the conference, but I'm so excited because it's going to be really, really interactive. So you literally get to bring your questions and I'll be there and just be able to answer them in real time.
Dr. Lyn Patrick 33:00
Great. Yes. The Environmental Health Symposium—I'll see you all there. Jill and I will be moderating. We'll be introducing and listening to some pretty amazing doctors and researchers.
Dr. Jill 33:11
Awesome. Well, thanks for your time today, Lyn. We will talk in a few weeks!
Dr. Lyn Patrick 33:16
Okay, great. Thank you so much. Dr. Jill!
![204: Resiliency Radio with Dr. Jill: Can our Minds Spontaneously Transform our Health? Bruce Lipton Dr. Jill 00:00 Hey guys, I am so excited to announce that the movie that you've been waiting for, the documentary Doctor/Patient, is now available for rent or purchase at DoctorPatientMovie.com. Check out the trailer here. 00:13 Dr. Jill: When I really knew something was wrong, was when I started having trouble walking up the stairs. I was supposed to be grateful and happy and healing and well and thriving, but I did not feel that way. I was so sick. Like always, I wanted to find an answer, and I had to figure it out. And I had to figure it out to save my own life. So I dove in. 00:38 James Maskell: Jill is the leading voice in biotoxin illness and chronic conditions that are driven by toxicity. 00:43 Bree Argetsinger: Oh my gosh, you're dealing with mold? You have to work with Dr. Jill Carnahan. 00:47 Patient 1: Dr. Jill is the first person that actually began to shed some light on the problem. 00:53 Dr. Jill: What I do is listen to the patient, and we together talk about what else is possible. 00:59 Patient 2: I don't know why I'm crying. 01:02 Patient 3: She saved my life. 01:06 Dr. Jill: The deepest lessons and most profound insights come in the suffering, come in the dark moments. Self-compassion is the healing transition that shifts something inside of us. It's actually the thing that we need most in order to heal. 01:26 Narrator: Doctor/Patient—available now at DoctorPatientMovie.com. Dr. Jill 01:36 Hey, welcome to Resiliency Radio, your go-to podcast for cutting-edge insights in functional and integrative medicine. I'm your host, Dr. Jill. In each episode, we dive into the heart of healing and personal transformation. Join us as we connect with renowned experts, thought leaders, and innovators who are at the forefront of medical research, empowering you with knowledge and wisdom to overcome illness in your journey to optimal health. Dr. Jill 02:02 Hey guys, if you don't already know, if you've been around me at all, you know my movie, Doctor/Patient is now out. You can view it, share it, gift it, or rent it at DoctorPatientMovie.com. Be sure to check it out and then I would love to hear your feedback after you've had a chance to watch it. Dr. Jill 02:19 Today, I am deeply honored to have guest Bruce Lipton here with me. He's a PhD, a cell biologist, a lecturer, and an internationally recognized leader in bridging science and spirit. We were just talking before we came on about how he has been a leader [for] decades before a lot of us in functional/integrative medicine came along. And I am so excited! If you're a doctor listening—and I know I have a lot of audience there—you are in for a treat. If you're a patient, you're also in for a treat. Stay tuned. Dr. Jill 02:47 Bruce was on the faculty of the University of Wisconsin School of Medicine and later performed groundbreaking stem cell research at Stanford University. He's a best-selling author of The Biology of Belief—if you haven't read that book, it's a classic now—The Honeymoon Effect, and the co-author with Steve Bhaerman of Spontaneous Evolution. Bruce received his prestigious 2009 Goi Peace Award from Japan in honor of his scientific contribution to world harmony. Bruce, it is a true honor and delight to have you here! Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 03:17 Jill, I am a happy person to be here because this audience that I get a chance to talk to, to me, is a very important audience. These are the cultural creatives that are paving the way for the future that we need to get into very soon because we're facing an evolutionary upheaval at this very moment. Whether you watch the news, surf the web, or even look out your window, the whole planet has experienced chaos at every level of it. People are focusing on the little chaos, like focusing on the trees, without pulling back to see the biggest thing that's happening and nobody's saying the words. NASA—Let me just say NASA's words. NASA has recognized that within the next 20 years, civilization is facing—and this is my emphasis here—an irreversible collapse. The reason is so mathematically simple. Let me give the math. Dr. Jill 04:16 Sure. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 04:17 Science has recognized that to continue living just the way we're living—just say, let's every day live the way we're living today on this planet—it takes 1.6 planet Earths to provide the resources for today's civilization. The simple math is this: There's one Earth subtracted from 1.6, and we're recognizing: "Where the hell are we getting the extra points?" Dr. Jill 04:39 We're in a deficit. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 04:40 And that deficit is leading to the destruction of the web of life. We have to also recognize this: Even though the Bible is giving us some fanciful story that nature was created and then humans were added on top of nature—no, we evolved from nature. We are nature. If nature goes down, humans go down, because we are part of this web of life. Our separation in our consciousness [that causes us to believe] that we can dominate nature, I say, "How's that working?" I say, "We're facing an extinction." That's a biological reality at this moment. It's called a mass extinction. It happened five times in the history of this planet: Life was thriving, [then] mass extinction. It knocked it all out and then it started again. We are there because of our behavior. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 05:33 And I say, "Our behavior is based on our consciousness." I go: "Okay, wait a second. Is that New Age?" I go: "No, let's stop. No New Age here at this moment." [In] 1927—day one, quantum physics—Max Planck, the founding father of quantum physics, states: "The mind is the creator of our life experiences." Quantum physics—the most valid of all the sciences today in the sense of its predictions and accuracy. Quantum physics. And it's still the belief in quantum physics: Consciousness is controlling this. And I go: "So if consciousness is controlling this, then why are we in such a mess?" The answer is: We have been programmed, and the programming has disempowered us all. It has disempowered us as patients. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 06:28 I go: "I'll give you a program that disempowers you right now." I say, "What is it?" "It's called genetic determinism." That was what I was teaching in medical school: Genes control the character of life. I go: "Did we pick the genes as far as we know? No. But if we don't like the characters we have, can we change the genes? No, can't do that." And then let's just add a little tidbit: Genes turn on and off by themselves. And I say: "You put those together and what have you done? You have told the patients that their lives are not in their control, they're controlled by their heredity, and that they're victims of heredity. Which is victims of what? Genetics. And what does a person know about genetics? Nothing. Who does know something? The doctor. Aha! The program is: When it comes to health, people do not trust themselves." They say: "I need an expert opinion. I'm not knowledgeable." They accept the truth from somebody else. Dr. Jill 07:28 I so love the direction that you're going here because, as a physician, one of the most important things I can do is empower the patient and make sure that they don't think that I am the end-all-be-all. [I want them to know] that we are collaborating and that I listen to them, and I say: "How do you feel about this treatment plan? Where do you want to go?" Granted, if I have wisdom, I can give them that information, but they still get to make that decision. But so many patients are outsourcing that wisdom to someone. Or, at least paternalistically and historically, that has been the way. And what we need to do is take control of our own health. Dr. Jill 08:00 How many patients have gone through a loved one with breast cancer—I'm a breast cancer survivor, so I can speak on this—and they're told, "You have the BRCA gene and you need to have a bilateral mastectomy"? I'm going to be strong about this because I disagree. That's an action out of fear. To each his own, so if you've been out there and have done something based on your genetics, there's no judgment here. But what we're saying is that you actually have control over the expression of those genes. So why don't you go into epigenetics for those who don't know what that means and tell us a little primer on epigenetics and why we have more control than we think? Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 08:34 Okay. The most important thing—and this is all scientific, so this is not any new age BS here, folks, this is science—I say: "What is it?" The belief that genes turn on and off is a completely false statement because a gene is a blueprint to make a protein. The proteins are the building blocks. Proteins wear out; you have to replace them. So you have to have a blueprint. It's called a gene. I go, "It's a blueprint!" I go, "Why is that relevant?" I say: "Go to an architect's office. She's working on a blueprint. You ask her, 'Hey, is your blueprint on or off?' She would look at you like, 'What are you talking about? There's no on and off to a blueprint.'" I go: "Aha! Aha! A gene is a blueprint. What you want to find out is: Who's the architect who reads the blueprint? The blueprint does not read itself. There's an architect." Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 09:24 I saw this in my research in 1967. None of you were probably old enough to know what I'm talking about—1967! But I was cloning stem cells. Let's give the real name of a stem cell: An embryonic cell. It's an embryo's cell. It replaces things that are broken and gets a new one. I go: "So what? I clone the stem cell." I say, "What's that?" I say: "You put one stem cell in the culture dish. And then what? It divides every 10 or 12 hours." So first there's one, then there's 2, then there's 4, 8, and 16. A week later, [there are] 30,000 cells in the petri dish. What's the most important fact? They all came from one parent. I have 30,000 genetically identical cells. I split them into three petri dishes—one, two, three. Each dish has 10,000, 10,000, 10,000, all genetically the same. We grow cells in a culture medium. Ah, this is going to be the tricky part, for when you get this, the world changes. I'm going to come back to it. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 10:27 I say: "A culture medium is what the cells grow in in the lab. And I make it up by putting the chemistry or culture medium. Since I'm creating it, I can change some of the constituents. So I make three different versions of culture medium, A, B, and C." So I say, "So what?" Each one represents a different environment because the cells live in a culture medium. So I say: "Okay, dish one, environment A—the cells form muscle. Dish two, environment B—the cells form bone. Dish three, environment C—the cells form fat cells." I'm doing this experiment. I'm teaching genetic determinism, and I'm watching the cells and going— Dr. Jill 11:10 Wait a second. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 11:11 —"Wait a second, who controlled the activity?" They were all genetically the same. What was different? The environment. The chemistry of the environment selected the genes. The genes did not select themselves. Then, all of a sudden, I said, "Why is this important?" It's a revolution! I'll tell you why. Genetic determinism: Victim. The new science, epigenetics, which I'll explain: Master. Why? Because you control the environment. It's the environment that controls the cells. It's called epigenetics. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 11:48 [There's a] simple reason why the name [is what it is]. What do we call skin? Epidermis. Why? What's under the skin? A layer called dermis. What's the skin above the dermis? Epidermis. Epi: Above. Epigenetics: Control above the genes. I go, "Whoa, the control is not in the genes." I said: "No, it's to control the environment that the genes live in." I go, "Well, wait, I control the environment." Aha! If you control the environment, then you control the genetics. And that's all of a sudden where the new science comes in. The genetic determinism: Victim. Epigenetics: Master. You control your genes. So basically, what I saw back in 1967 was, "The genes didn't make this decision." Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 12:48 Now let's just jump ahead a second here because that's a basic science. And then I'm going to give you this, which you're totally aware of: You are a skin-covered petri dish. You have 50 trillion cells under your skin and you have the original culture medium. What is a culture medium? I didn't say it before, but I'll tell you where it is: A laboratory version of blood. When I grow human cells, I concoct a culture medium based on the constituents of human blood or mouse blood, depending on which cells I'm growing. What's the point? You are a skin-covered culture dish with what? The original culture medium. You have the blood. The blood carries the chemistry, which activates the genes. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 13:34 So the first point: Scientifically, it doesn't make a difference if the cell is in a plastic dish or a skin dish? I said, "No, it's the environment." And I say the environment in your body is the blood for the cells. Then come two questions that blow the game into a new evolution. Question number one: What controls the chemistry of the blood? The answer is the brain. It's the chemist. The big one—here it is, hold on: What chemistry should the brain put into the blood? You know what it is? Whatever picture you hold in your mind, the brain translates the picture into complimentary chemistry that matches the picture. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 14:25 I say, "So why is this important?" The picture in your head becomes material in your body. You manifest what you're thinking. I go: "Wait a minute. Would I manifest this life? Would I manifest my cancer?" I go, "Yes." I go, "You say that so affirmatively." I go: "Quantum physics—the most valid science principle number one [is that] the mind is the creator of our experience." I go: "Well, epigenetics is the biological component of that physics mechanism." Epigenetics is how the mind adjusts the genetics of the body. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 15:05 And I go, "We're facing a healthcare crisis on this planet." I go, "Yes, we are facing a healthcare crisis." And I go, "What's responsible?" We put all the money into science. You know what we're looking for? We're looking for the gene—the gene that controls that problem. Guess what? Less than 1% of all diseases on this planet have any connection with genes. Wait, then that means only less than 1% of what we diagnose as disease is connected with genes. I go, "Yes, that's a fact." Then what is really contributing to the worldwide crisis in healthcare? The answer is: Stress is 90% the cause of disease, minimum. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 15:54 I go: "Okay, come on! How could that do that?" Let's give the biology because it's not New Age again. You're ready? When you're in stress, you're in threat. When you're in threat, you engage a protection response. I say, "What is a protection response?" The protection response is: When you perceive stress, you will release stress hormones, adrenal hormones. I go, "Yes, so what?" Well, what do you think the adrenal hormones do? They prepare the body for fight or flight. I go, "So what?" I say: "First of all, there are three stages to take a body from health, happiness, joy—I'm in the garden, I love my life—to 'Ah! A sabertooth tiger's chasing me!'" I say, "So I have to switch from growth, boom, into protection." Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 16:41 How does that happen? Three steps. Number one, stress hormones cause the blood vessels in the gut to constrict. Why? Because most of the blood is in the gut. I say, "Who cares?" I say: "Ah, but the blood is a source of energy. So if you need energy, you need blood." So I say, "So what's the point?" I say: "Most of the blood is in the gut, taking care of the body, cleaning, fixing, repairing, nourishing, and doing all those things. But the moment stress hormones come in, the blood vessels squeeze shut. People feel it in the body." "It's queasy. I feel very queasy when I'm in fear like this." Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 17:16 I say: "But some people say butterflies in the stomach. Why?" The fluttering of the blood vessels shutting down—you can feel it. And it's a fluttering. And what's happening? The blood is being pushed to the arms and legs, and that's where I need to run away from that damn tiger. So number one, redistribute the blood. Where do I take it from? [From] growth and maintenance to protection. So I'm not funding growth and maintenance when I'm running from the tiger. I go, "No, you're not." Number two, the immune system is to protect me on the inside. If I'm being chased by a saber-toothed tiger, then what's the value of the immune system? Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 17:55 I'll give you a scenario. Come on, doctors, listen to this. The patient's got a bacterial infection. They're going to have a real bad case of diarrhea coming up here and they're being chased by a saber-toothed tiger. How would you split the energy of the body? How much to support the immune system and how much of that energy to run away from the saber-toothed tiger? I'll give you a second. Okay, thank you. The answer is, of course, who cares about the immune system? If the tiger chased you, the bacteria are not your problem anymore, that's for sure. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 18:26 Listen, stress hormones shut down the immune system to conserve energy. And you know damn well that when people are sick, sometimes they don't even have the energy to get out of bed because the immune system uses a hell of a lot of energy. If you're being chased by a tiger: I can't support the immune system because if the tiger gets me, who cares about what's happening in the interior?—it's not mine anymore. It's so important—in fact, therapeutic—that when they transplant an organ from person A into person B and they don't want immunological rejection, they give the recipient stress hormones before the operation. That restricts the function of the immune system so it doesn't immediately reject the foreign graft. Ah, so stress hormones are used therapeutically to shut off the immune system. So I say, "Yes, what do you think stress does automatically?" That's number two. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 19:21 Number three, conscious processing is slow compared to reflex behavior. Conscious [processing] is like, "Oh, let me think." Reflex is boom! Boom! Like that. The point is, if you're running from a saber-toothed tiger, conscious processing is going to delay your nervous system because you'll be thinking. When that tiger is coming, guess what? Remember the role of the stress hormone—to squeeze the blood vessels here? They squeeze the blood vessels in the forebrain. I say, "Why?" Because it stops the blood flow from going to the conscious mind. Where's it going? The hindbrain—reflex behavior. Result: We become less intelligent in the fear process. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 20:11 So I say: "Let's put these all together. I shut down growth, I shut down the immune system, and I shut off conscious awareness." I go: "When was that system formed?" "Oh, a couple hundred thousand years ago." I say: "What was it responding to?" "The saber-toothed tiger?" I go: "So what was important?" "If you escape that tiger for five minutes or ten minutes, there's no more saber-toothed tiger, no more stress." So it was used for five to ten minutes. Shut it down [for] five to ten minutes; we'll come back later. In today's world—you know the whole thing—every day, every minute, we're in stress. The system was never designed for chronic stress. It shuts down the vitality, health, and maintenance of the body. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 21:01 The stresses of this world are responsible for over 90% of healthcare crises. This is recognized by the American Psychological Society: 95% of visits to doctors' offices [are] stress-related. I was a programmer. And I'm not proud now because, when I programmed, people used to believe in genetic determinism. I go: "No, no. I was wrong. Epigenetics, okay?" But we've been programmed to be victims. Dr. Jill 21:32 Yes. First of all, I think doctors are starting, at least in my realm of functional/integrative—we're talking epigenetics; we're using this. And I just want to share a personal example to bring home what you just shared. It's so important. Many of my listeners know that at 25, I had breast cancer, then Crohn's disease, and then autoimmunity. I'm the poster child. What I remember very clearly is that in my 30s, I got mold-related toxicity. My immune system was terribly trashed and overactive and I was under high stress. I remember one day walking along and realizing: "This stress that is in my body is actually killing me." I had the mentality [of] "beating cancer," "fighting cancer," "fighting this," "fighting that"—fighting, fighting, fighting—which is your saber-toothed tiger [description]. I was in fight or flight. Dr. Jill 22:16 The day I realized that was the day I realized I could also reprogram my immune system through my thoughts. That day I started thinking [up] a new paradigm, thinking about these little yellow minions being my immune system. They were helping escort mold toxicity out of my body without this fight because, [in] fight or flight, there's no healing. And now, today, I'm healed from that and from mold-related illness and all of this. But it's really that moment when I realized I could change my thought process, change the function of my immune system, recover from Crohn's, cancer, and toxic mold, and no longer fight. Dr. Jill 22:53 And the most important message, as you brought home, is that when I'm sitting with a patient, if they're in fear, if they are in fight or flight, and if they are feeling unsafe in their body, there is no amount of pills, supplements, IVs, nutrition, or even good advice that I can give them… Unless they go to that place of unsafeness, that place of fear, that place where they're still somatically running from the tiger. We have to change that, and it starts with this. Dr. Jill 23:22 So I love, love, love that you framed this. And I just want to give you credit because you've been doing this work for decades before anyone else was talking about it. And now we're seeing it. And finally, doctors in my field are starting to acknowledge and talk about it. But even in my field, functional medicine is a lot about supplements, diet, and lifestyle. That's all great. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 23:40 Well, that's environment! Dr. Jill 23:41 Right? Right. Actually, that's the thing I was going to mention too. My specialty is environmental toxicity, so I know the petri dish of how it affects our bodies. But I do believe, as you're saying, that this reprogramming of our mind… Do you have any stories or examples, maybe from your book, of a patient, client, or somebody who has read your book who really took this and changed from there? Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 24:03 I've got hundreds and hundreds of letters from people who've written. There were two things about this. Let me express it even in my personal life. I understood this from a scientific point of view. Man, it was in my laboratory, my research. It was repeatable; I could do this all the time. It took 23 years before science caught up with that observation. I [inaudible] a lot of other things in between to conform. And the reality is that our own understanding about our frailty—it's an understanding. And then I give an understanding of, "No, we're very powerful." Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 24:42 I was so happy to go and find an audience of doctors and people: "Let me explain how to create the most wonderful life. Here's the science!" And then they'd come to my lecture and they'd look at me and go: "Lipton, your life doesn't look that good for a guy who says you know this." Oh my God, I was caught. You know what it was? Talking the talk, not walking the talk. I knew the science. It was in my head. Did I make it part of my life? No! I say: "So what was the point? I don't care how smart you are; if you don't make a part of your life, it's irrelevant." Totally! Then all of a sudden, when I caught myself going, "Oh, do as I say, not as I do," it's like, "I can't do that!" So I had to say: "Stop lecturing. Start living your life with the principles you are telling other people. Live this now." How long did it take me to change my life? Oh, within a month, my life was completely on a whole different spectrum. And it was like, "Now, of course, I start talking about it again," because it was real. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 25:47 Let me just give a simple understanding, a scientific understanding, and that is this: The mind is not one thing. "Oh, the mind." I go: "No, not the mind. There are two minds. And they're interdependent, but they have different functions." The conscious mind, the latest evolution: The prefrontal cortex, right behind your forehead, [is] the seat of the conscious mind. What's that? The conscious mind is your source, your personal identity, your spiritual place. What else is it? It's creative! That's what makes humans different than all the other animals. We can take ideas, boom, build them, and create in the conscious mind. What about the subconscious mind? Oh, the original one? Hard drive, programs, habits, stored behavior. Thinking? Uh-uh. Just behavior—program. Dr. Jill 26:38 The subconscious has no way to differentiate truth, right? It does whatever you tell it to do. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 26:44 No, well, the subconscious doesn't do what you tell it to do; it does what it tells it to do. The subconscious is the autopilot. I say, yes, the mind works, but you have to understand that when I'm in the conscious mind, that is the creative side. That's the side with wishes, desires, and aspirations. What do you want? Conscious mind. Subconscious mind: Program. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 27:09 I say, "So what's the issue with our life when it comes down to it?" The monkey wrench that blows the whole thing out is that when the conscious mind is thinking, it's not paying attention to the outer world. A thought is inside. When you're present, your conscious mind is looking at the world and engaging the world. Right now, in front of it, I'm engaging it. But if I'm thinking, my conscious mind is no longer looking out; it's looking in because a thought is on the inside. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 27:38 So I say, "Wait, what if I'm driving the car and I have a thought?" And I've got to tell you, in fact: Then you're not driving the car. "What do you mean? No accident or nothing." I say: "Driving is a program. You don't have to think about driving." In fact, most of the time, if you've been driving for a long time, you never think about the details of driving. It's an automatic behavioral program. It plays when you're not paying attention. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 28:02 I go: "Aha! When the conscious mind is thinking, it's not paying attention to the outer world. Why? It's inside." So I say: Walking, driving, talking, doing your job—hey, those are habits. You've been doing it all—whatever [it is]—for a long period of time. You don't have to re-learn it. It's automatic. Do you even have to think about walking? No, you didn't even have to say: "Oh, I'm going to walk from here to there. I'm going to get that." I say: "Walking is automatic. You don't think about it—program." Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 28:37 So then comes the number and this is scientific: Ninety-five percent of the day is the average person's amount of thinking. Then what does that represent? Biologically, only five percent of the day are you creating your life with the conscious mind's wishes and desires. Ninety-five percent of the day your life is coming from programs that you downloaded mainly before age seven. And I go, "Where did I get the programs?" I go: "Before age seven, your brain is not primarily functioning at the level of consciousness, which in EEG terms is alpha, beta, and gamma. When you're under seven, you're operating primarily at theta, which is just below consciousness." Theta—imagination. Hey, the tea party: Pour nothing into the cup. Drink the nothing. "The best tea I ever had in my life!" That's imagination. That's theta. That's what kids do all the time. They can have imaginary friends. They play with them all the time. It's imagination. Theta is hypnosis. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 29:41 I go, "Why is that important?" How many rules does it take to be a member of a family? How many rules does it take to be a member of a community? Now we're talking thousands. I go, "Why is that important?" I said, "Well, teach an infant a thousand rules." I go: "They can't read a book. They can't sit in a classroom. They can't understand a video." I said: "How are they going to learn?" Nature took care of that. Nature gave the first seven years theta, which is hypnosis. You want to know the behavior? Watch your mother, watch your father, watch your community. Watch their behavior; download it. Now it's your behavior! Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 30:19 So the behavior that's in your subconscious mind didn't even come from you, did it? Nope, it came from other people. And did they answer your wishes and desires—what you'd like? Not necessarily. So then, are there programs in there that give you what your wishes and desires are? Not necessarily, no. In fact, I say, "So what about these programs?" Sixty percent of the things you downloaded as a kid—sixty percent of the subconscious programs [are] disempowering, self-sabotaging, and limiting beliefs. And you operate ninety-five percent of the day from them. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 30:53 Ah, but here's the monkey wrench you didn't catch! Why am I using my subconscious programs? Because my conscious mind's not paying attention; it's thinking. Well, then, do you see the programs when they come out? I go: "Nope! You're the only one who doesn't even see the program!" Why? Everybody else around you is responding to your program. You're not even paying attention [to] what the hell is coming out. Sixty percent of it [is] disempowering yourself. So the issue is this: We are not controlling our lives. Our program controls our lives. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 31:28 I say, "Oh, this is a new science." I go: "Scientifically, this is valid. This is understanding theta activity, downloading programs, conscious, subconscious, blah, blah, blah, blah." But the Jesuits knew about programming for 400 years. They would tell their followers, "Give me a child until it is seven, and I will show you the man." Oh my God, that's 100% right! The programming is before age seven, and 95% of the life is the program. They knew it. They created Catholic schools to help the programming go along. And that idea is never lost because if you can watch an infant today, which I've seen carrying an iPad, interacting with a program on a computer, that's far better programming than Jesuits could ever have thought of. Dr. Jill 32:17 Yes, it's clear, isn't it? That's a really good transition because one of the things I see as the biggest crisis in healthcare is environment, but it's environment that is no longer socially interactive or present. We're numbing ourselves out with machines, with iPads, and with phones. They are designed to create an addictive behavior, so they're tapping into some of those subconscious programs, right? Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 32:40 And let me just add this to that: It's not just that behavior, but it's also creating disempowering behaviors. So these programs—as you were just going to say, and I'll let you have it back again—were not designed to help us; they were designed to control us. Dr. Jill 33:05 Yes. And sell and control. Yes, so we are pawns in this new world of technology that is neurodynamically designed to be addictive. If you haven't seen The Social Dilemma, that's a great place to start in your education on social media and the impact. I do want to talk about this. One of the things you just got done saying is that before seven, we're programmed. I totally understand and believe that. But the truth is, we have the power to change that programming. Tell us about that. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 33:36 Most everybody out there has changed that programming. I say, "You've already done it." I say: "What, the movie The Matrix, being a documentary, everybody's programmed?" Yes, of course, that's the foundational belief of the movie and the reality. And in the movie, they offered the red pill. And I say: "What was the red pill? You get out of the program!" Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 33:54 I go, "Almost everybody out here right now listening has done that." I say: "What was the consequence? How did it happen?" I'm going to tell you. Falling in love is a red pill. I go, "What do you mean?" Because when you first fall in love, you stop thinking. Biologically, you stay present; you stay in the conscious, creative mind. You've waited for this person your whole life. They're there. What, you want to start thinking and then ignore them? Are you kidding me? You stay up conscious. You stay mindful. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 34:23 I say, "So what happened?" I say: "Your life up to meeting that person: Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You meet them [and] 24 hours later: 'Oh, man, life is beautiful. Life is so wonderful. Hey, the food's really good. That music is even better than I ever thought it was.'" And even the crappy job is not so crappy. I said: "What'd you do?" You made honeymoon. What's honeymoon? Heaven on earth. I said, "What was your heaven on earth?" Whatever you wished and desired. You and a partner coming together when you're both wishing and desiring, you're sharing the same wishes and desires, you manifest a honeymoon. Oops, I dropped something, but okay. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 35:01 Is the honeymoon already there? I go, "The honeymoon's always there." I said, "Then how come you don't have it?" Because when you start thinking, you then go back to subconscious control, the default. And the problem is, why do 50% of marriages end up in divorce? The answer is this: Marriage has started with the relationship of two conscious creative minds sharing together a belief in creating a honeymoon, and it ends when thinking enters into the people and they start playing their regular programs, which are 60% negative. The partner hears these programs. The one saying the thing doesn't hear it; the other one hears it. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 35:43 I love the response. When somebody comes out in a relationship and the loving partner hears some kind of BS come out of their other partner, they look at them and go: "Who are you? Where did you come from?" What? It was never part of the behavior. And then, all of a sudden, it shows up. And the more thinking, the more that negativity shows up. There's a point where a partner will say: "That's enough. That's not why I signed up here. I signed up because we had a great honeymoon." After you started thinking, this thing went right down the tube. The point is, that's what reality is about. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 36:18 So the idea then becomes simple, which is the obvious thing: "What if I created all programs that represented my wishes and desires—if I had those programs?" I said: "Oh, you know what? Whether you're consciously creating those wishes and desires or your conscious mind is off in left field, your subconscious will be manifesting the wishes and desires. And guess what? A honeymoon is not a short period. A honeymoon is every day of your life for as long as you live." Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 36:46 Does it work? Personally, I had some very bad programming when I was young because my mother and father had a dysfunctional relationship. I downloaded my father's dysfunctional behavior. I played it when I couldn't see it. The result is that I couldn't get relationships off the ground. Then I understood the nature of the programming. Then I understand the nature of reprogramming. Around 50, I met my partner, Margaret. We just celebrated 28 years! And I'm not selling just a relationship; I'm talking honeymoon for 28 years. To wake up every day in my life and go: "Oh my God, I'm still here. Oh my God, I have another day to smell the roses, to have a piece of cake, to enjoy the love, watch the environment, and love my life." I celebrate life. Jill celebrates life. What's the result? Where's the illness? What illness? Dr. Jill 37:45 Yes! I love that. There are some points that I think are so crucial that you just made, number one, being present with our partners, watching them in real time and observing them. So often we create a program of them, a template, and then we don't expect them to change. Or, we expect them to behave the same. And when we're in real time, present with another person—whether it's a friend, family member, business associate, or lover—we can respond in real time. And that's part of that co-creation that you're talking about. It's crucial. Dr. Jill 38:15 The other thing is that with illness, I find one thing that was—I'm sure this is related to the program, [and] I'd love your comments—I never identified with the cancer. I never became the cancer. I never made that part of who I was. Even now, I'm like, "Oh yes, 20 years ago, I had cancer." And of course, it's real, but it's almost foreign because it was never part of me. And I really believe that's a huge part of why I overcame a very, very aggressive cancer at the age of 25—because it never was my identity. Do you want to talk about that a little bit? Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 38:44 Yes, let's just talk about this. The first thing is that I'm going to give a fact of science [to] which [a person might say], "He really said that?" And I'm going to say, yes, I'm going to say this. There's not one gene that causes cancer. There's not a gene [where], "You have this gene, you get cancer." The one scary one for women, of course, [is] the breast cancer gene. I go, "So what?" I go: "Women who carry the breast cancer gene don't necessarily have to have cancer. As a matter of fact, nearly half of them don't get cancer. But they have the gene." So then I say, "Then where did the cancer come from?"—because those who have the cancer with the gene and those who are healthy with the gene have the same gene. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 39:20 What's the difference? The answer is this: Cancer is correlated with a gene, not caused by a gene. Cancer is caused by disharmony in the system. Disharmony is the source of disease. Harmony is the source of health. Disharmony means your programming wasn't really good, and you're responding to things in a negative way that is going to cause a breakdown of the system. That's where the stress comes into it. So the concept is this: The image—even if once you tell a woman, "Yes, you have the breast cancer gene," what the hell image do you think is going to be in her head? The answer is: Cancer. I go: "Yes, but isn't the function of the mind to take the image of the head and turn it into reality?" I go, "Absolutely! What's the consequence?" Ninety percent of cancer has no genetic linkage at all. Dr. Jill 40:14 Yes. That was the biggest question I got as a 25-year-old. Every single person, to a T: "Oh, did you have genes?" No, I didn't have genes. I had a dysfunctional system when I was in my 20s. That goes into a whole other lecture that I could give, but I was not living consciously. And there were some things, stress-wise, that were contributing. And it was the environmental toxic load. So all of these things are the petri dish. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 40:38 And more than that, there must have been the two programs. Eighty to ninety percent of all people will not test positive for two beliefs. Number one, and I think the most important, is the belief, "I love myself." Eighty percent of people will not test positive for that belief. Number two, and this is the one where the healthcare crisis comes from: "I am safe." When you have a picture of fear, then the chemistry of fear is to manifest the fear. When they say "This is it" and [show you] a picture of the tumor and everything, then you make the chemistry of the tumor. Then the idea is that we have to own quantum physics. Consciousness is the source of our life experiences. We have to understand the nature of epigenetics. Consciousness is the source of what controls our genes. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 41:07 The third thing that I think is part of the Renaissance that we really must emphasize at some point is Newtonian physics, which separates physical from non-physical, matter versus energy. It's an illusion. It's not real. But it programs us in a very bad way because the program says: "Whatever is made out of matter can only be affected by matter. Whatever is made out of energy can only be affected by energy." And I say, "So what's the consequence?" I say: "The body is matter. And what do you think the whole foundation of the pharmaceutical company is? The body is matter and we make the matter to fix the matter." Dr. Jill 42:16 Yes. What's the matter with that? [laughs] Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 42:18 Three hundred thousand people die in the US every year from prescription drugs, that's what's the matter with it, when less than 50,000—I think 30,000—people die from illegal drugs. We have a war on illegal drugs, and 300,000 people dying from pharmaceutical drugs is called the cost of doing medicine. I go: "That's damn expensive! We don't need that." Simple law of science: If a drug works, it only works because you already had a receptor for that drug on you. Do you think nature put receptors on cells, waiting for the pharmaceutical company to make a drug? No, come on, man! If you have a receptor for a drug, it's because you have a receptor for a drug that you make. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 43:01 I go, "I can make any drug." Of course, because any drug works because you have a receptor to connect it. If you have a receptor, then you obviously have a signal that will bind to that receptor. Then you say, "Well, it's not working." And that's where everything gets screwed up because that system isn't working and then you go right away: "Oh, the body is defective. The genes aren't working right. There's an interference with the physical." I go, "Yes, there was an interference because it didn't start down here; it started up here." And once you start to understand this, yes, treat the body if there's an immediate need to treat the body, but the process of treating the patient is treating this part. Knowledge is power. They do not have the knowledge of who they are. They're programmed [to think]: "I'm a victim of my genes and I have no power." I go, "Well, there's your problem." Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 43:54 And the issue about it is that you guys are in the front of the evolution that says: Okay, I can treat the patient, but I've really got to treat the consciousness of the patient. Why? Because, as quantum physics says, consciousness is the source of this creativity, and as epigenetics says, consciousness is the source of this expression. You cannot leave that out. Dr. Jill 44:18 You just talked about two beliefs that I think are critical and it's a great place to kind of wrap up. The first one is: Do we love ourselves? Do we really, really, truly love and accept ourselves? I have written a book and done a movie on that message. The heart of healing is: How do we show self-compassion and love? Because that is the only way that our cells will respond in health. Dr. Jill 44:41 The second thing was so crucial too, and that is the fear and the unsafety. This is where a physician in the office can make all the difference, because if they add to that fear message, guess what? That's just adding to that patient's unhealth. So one thing we are obligated to do as physicians is create a safe environment and teach that patient how to start to feel safe in their body. With those two beliefs, maybe in the last couple of minutes here, could you maybe give us some practical advice for somebody who's like: "How do I start doing that, Bruce? How do I feel safe in my body? And how do I love myself?" Because that, I couldn't agree more with you, is really the core message here. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 45:19 I'll tell you, let's get right to the root of why people do not love themselves. The answer is: Because parents act like coaches on a sports team. I go, "What does that mean?" A player isn't doing well. What does the coach say? "Oh, do better." No! The coach says: "That's not good enough. Who do you think you are? You don't deserve to be on this team." Well, a player is older than seven. They're in consciousness. They understand that the coach is saying, "You better do better!" Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 45:47 Now let's say the parent is the coach and the kid is under seven. There's no consciousness operating. What's operating? Hypnosis, programming. So when the father says, "That's not good enough, you don't deserve this, you're not lovable, you don't belong," blah, blah, blah—acting like the coach who says, "This is going to make them do better"—if the kid is under seven, you just programmed them to self-sabotage because the subconscious is going to create 95% of their life. And if I get a program "I do not deserve," when I'm thinking 95% of the day, what the hell program is running? "I do not deserve." So I could say something so stupid in my corporate structure or something, and somebody says, "That guy doesn't deserve to be here." And then, all of a sudden, I'm kicked out of the structure. Why? Because I myself made behavior to conform to "not good enough" and to not love myself. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 46:41 This is why that one's so important—because if you can't love yourself, I'm going to be honest, you can't accept love from somebody else. I go, "Why?" Because they say they love you, but in your mind, you're going: "Well, they don't know me, man. I know I'm not lovable." And you'll push them away. And then you'll find yourself with nobody around. And guess what you'll say? "You see?! I'm not lovable!" [inaudible] You just did that. And when it comes to "Do I have any power?" the answer is: No, it has been systematically deprived of them. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 46:59 I've got a minute; I've got to say this because this is really cool. There's a power struggle in the world. It's always been this way. There are three levels of power. Number one, caveman. Who's the biggest badass with the biggest club? Whatever they say, do it. They've got the power. Evolution came along. There are people then who control the resources that you need. And all of a sudden they say, "If you want those resources, you've got to give me something for this." And you know what? The ones who had the resources paid the caveman to hit you over the head if you didn't pay for the resources. Dr. Jill 47:53 A personal hitman. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 47:55 That's the king who owns the resources with an army of cavemen. Then I say, "But the last of the power struggles came down to 'knowledge is power.'" And it was recognized that, yes, that is the supreme power of everything. Knowledge is power. The first thing the church of Rome did was acknowledge: "We are the source of infallible knowledge. We are the source of truth. We say it; it's true." Well, you say, "I don't care." The point about it was that people gave up their power to the belief. And I say it here very quickly: There's a code behind the power brokers. I call it the powermongers' credo. I say, "What is it?" Are you ready? Give them the fear for free and then sell them the antidote. Dr. Jill (pre-recording) 48:46 Hey, everybody. I just stopped by to let you know that my new book, Unexpected: Finding Resilience through Functional Medicine, Science, and Faith, is now available for order wherever you purchase books. In this book, I share my own journey of overcoming a life-threatening illness and the tools, tips, tricks, hope, and resilience I found along the way. This book includes practical advice for things like cancer and Crohn's disease and other autoimmune conditions, infections like Lyme or Epstein-Barr, and mold- and biotoxin-related illnesses. What I really hope is that as you read this book, you find transformational wisdom for health and healing. If you want to get your own copy, stop by ReadUnexpected.com. There, you can also collect your free bonuses. So grab your copy today and begin your own transformational journey through functional medicine and finding resilience. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 50:59 "What do you want me to do? Put a mask on? Sure. I'll mask on. I can't visit my mom, who's dying in a nursing home?" "No, you have to give that up because you can't do that." "Really?" Dr. Jill 51:09 Yes. If you're controlled, then fear created the biology of illness. It really, really is a great analogy. Bruce, this has been so fun to dive deep. I love talking to you. I love your enthusiasm. I love your wisdom. And I love most of all that you were so far ahead of the curve because people are kind of coming along to this belief. But the truth is, you were one of the very first ones writing and talking about this. And I'm just grateful that way back in the day, in the lab, you saw this and started writing about it. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. 51:44 I can't be any happier than I am for myself! I have a different life! I have a different life than before that discovery. Dr. Jill 51:53 Yes. And it transforms us all, too. I have many stories, the same thing, of me continuing to transform because of this knowledge. Thank you for the work that you do. Thank you for spending your time with us today!](https://www.jillcarnahan.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/Bruce-Lipton-Biology-of-Belief-Can-Your-Mind-Spontaneously-Transform-Your-Health_-WEB-1.jpg)
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